Is Electric the new 2-Stroke?

[geoffers997]

Hello Forum,
With the creeping poison that is ethanol screwing up our fuel supply and the general demonisation of fossil fuel, here’s a thought:

I’ve never ridden one but would an electric powered bike ride like a 2-stroke hitting its power band?

Is this going to be the way we get that snap the throttle open, hit the band and hang on while the world goes backwards buzz?

You’d still need to replicate the smell and the noise though so it may be a bit sterile and video game like

[steve h]

You could program one to replicate any power band. Even to make noise... and pushing it home when it's battery is flat will replicate that back in the day 2t ownership blues....
Or you could just remove ethanol from yer fuel.... or just empty your tank when storing the bike and put aspen in...... "they" can all fook off...I will still make blue smoke.
Batteries are for vibrators.

[donkeychomp]

Electric vehicles of any kind make zero sense to me. If one day we all had them, then where is the power coming from to charge them? Hydrogen is the answer. As for E10 bollocks, just fill up with super unleaded, either E5 (bad enough) or totally ethanol free. Yes it's expensive and I have to use it in my car now. Either that or go to start it one day and nothing happens.

Alex

[shaunthe2nd]

Nah. They tried it at TT and even after several years only got half a dozen entries and was boring to watch. No excitement. Wrong end of the spectrum for me I'm afraid. I wouldn't spend 300 hours and my relatives inheritance refurbing one. Rather do a tuk-tuk when I run out of RD's to rebuild.

[headcoats]

Had to drop off the little ones sports bag as we had forgot it and went down on the Bonneville
Parked right outside the school and the kiddies loved it !
Wouldn't get that reaction on a milk float bike LOL

[midlifecrisisrd]

It's not going to happen when they say, it simply can't

It would need the national grid to have the capacity for every home and every parking space to have a charging point. High power ones at that

Every house has a rated supply of 100a but in reality you are lucky if you are pulling 20a in winter while you have the oven and everything else on in the house. The diversity factor of electrical power consumption that is built into the design assumes not everyone or everything is on at once

A ring main is fused at 32a and will have 10 - 20 sockets on it each rated at 13a. Plug 3 high rated things in and it's beyond the capacity of the circuit

The electrical supply to your home is the same. Never mind having a charge point at every house, what about families with 2 or 3 cars, they all need a charger taking 20 - 40a depending on what car/charger you have


And where and who is going to fit enough points for every car

Can they really get it done in time, can they feck.

The Edinburgh tram project involved digging up 9 miles road for track and electric lines took 6 bloody years to do so how long to dig up each city and fit cabling, infrastructure and charge points?

Yes they will ban petrol and diesel cars in 2030 but they can't ban hybrids in 2035

That drug dealer in the tower block is going to need a long cable out the tenth floor window to charge his electric ride

Steve

[steve h]

Oct 15, 2021 7:42:46 GMT 1 headcoats said:

Had to drop off the little ones sports bag as we had forgot it and went down on the Bonneville
Parked right outside the school and the kiddies loved it !
Wouldn't get that reaction on a milk float bike LOL

You do realise that your actions could lead to a child being hooked on an all encompassing lifetime obsession?
Such a shame I dont have a child at the same school.

[andy748]

Oct 15, 2021 8:40:13 GMT 1 midlifecrisisrd said:

It's not going to happen when they say, it simply can't

It would need the national grid to have the capacity for every home and every parking space to have a charging point. High power ones at that

Every house has a rated supply of 100a but in reality you are lucky if you are pulling 20a in winter while you have the oven and everything else on in the house. The diversity factor of electrical power consumption that is built into the design assumes not everyone or everything is on at once

A ring main is fused at 32a and will have 10 - 20 sockets on it each rated at 13a. Plug 3 high rated things in and it's beyond the capacity of the circuit

The electrical supply to your home is the same. Never mind having a charge point at every house, what about families with 2 or 3 cars, they all need a charger taking 20 - 40a depending on what car/charger you have


And where and who is going to fit enough points for every car

Can they really get it done in time, can they feck.

The Edinburgh tram project involved digging up 9 miles road for track and electric lines took 6 bloody years to do so how long to dig up each city and fit cabling, infrastructure and charge points?

Yes they will ban petrol and diesel cars in 2030 but they can't ban hybrids in 2035

That drug dealer in the tower block is going to need a long cable out the tenth floor window to charge his electric ride

Steve

Totally agree Steve, my company is only supplying electric vehicles as company cars now, i got my petrol company car in March 2020 and i've clocked up 40k miles, there are 9 of us on our team and we have regular team meetings at our distribution depots around the country, if we all rock up there's no way we'll get home on one charge as there's no charge points in any of our depots, 22 in total, it's mental. By the way, drug dealing will be replaced by Super Petrol Dealers, i'm squirreling away a few gallons a week to deal in my retirement, think i'll call meself Pablo Essocabar! I'll get me coat..... Andy. 

[midlifecrisisrd]

Too funny 🤣🤣🤣

I've just managed to squeeze a new diesel order out my work before they go petrol hybrid only

Its due in the dealer 17/12 - Merry Christmas 😆

I've done 1000 miles this week, How much longer would it take if I'd been having to wait on recharging

Steve

[steve h]

Good point andy. Yup, the limitations are inbuilt at the moment..... until a 450mile range and five minute fill up arrives. Until then it's overnight stops, long stops, planed routes with chargers on, no go areas, or take the train/bus at big expense.
Dread to think about being stuck on a motorway in sub zero temps for hours........ watching the batt power level heading south....

[andy748]

Steve, i have always said we need a standard battery for all electric cars which can be swapped in minutes on the motorway and A road network, charge the buggers with wind/solar, buy a car but rent the battery, but the manufacturers are too niche to adopt this, why should my Audi battery fit a Kia, that doesn't fit with our demographic. It will never work, and i will drink petrol till i shuffle off this mortal coil. Andy.

[wonkywheel]

Apart from getting us to work back in the day, riding the band always was and always will be a way of life.

Electric is for plebs and the woke. And certainly not ethical nor green.

I’ll take the Easy Rider option

[midlifecrisisrd]

Oct 15, 2021 21:05:37 GMT 1 andy748 said:

Steve, i have always said we need a standard battery for all electric cars which can be swapped in minutes on the motorway and A road network, charge the buggers with wind/solar, buy a car but rent the battery, but the manufacturers are too niche to adopt this, why should my Audi battery fit a Kia, that doesn't fit with our demographic. It will never work, and i will drink petrol till i shuffle off this mortal coil. Andy.

Very true, you see a Tesla battery and it's like a brief case size

Why can't we do like we did in the 80's with our walkie talkie sized mobile phone and go to work with 2 batteries or as you say rent batteries where you can exchange them at a service station

Maybe a gearbox would help too. I know they don't need one but it may help the "feel" of driving one

Surely it would also help the current draw of the motor and help battery life

Steve

[steve h]

There was a bike with a "cassette" type battery with the idea of exchanging them at "fuel" stations. Donkeydick is right, hydrogen. JCB are on with it at the moment. Sorry donkeychomp....dont know which one sounds worse...... Interesting interview here.

[lc2]

The Tesla battery system fills the whole floor pan of the car, certainly not brief case size.

[liffy16]

Generally I cycle to work 20 mile round trip only use my 18 year old civic when weather's really crap,as I see it to many lazy pleps making unnecessary short journeys in cars that's how I see it anyway ,and what thanks do I get? still have to insure and tax all my vehicles !!

[lc350pete]

An electric bike just isn’t the same sure it goes from a to b but it’s not the same at all , a bike has to have an engine two or four stroke but not electric
I’m not convinced that electric cars are green anyway where they strip mine the minerals to make the batteries it destroys the local environment and now they are talking about deep dredging the ocean
I read up about deep dredging the sea bed that is dredged never recovers , it just destroys the marine environment
Small efficient petrol engine cars are the way forward hardly any pollution and they don’t use much petrol

[headcoats]

School run when most folks live round the corner is a joke

[Stef]

I was working on the M6 last week in Cumbria. We had 2 lanes closed and all the traffic was using Lane 3/fast lane. I was walking down the job and noticed all the traffic was slowing down, next thing a car pulls slowly into our closure and parks up next to the live lane with not a lot of room between the car and the live lane. Went up to the car, a bloke gets out of his Tesla and says he's run out of charge/battery.
I said you're not in the safest place being so close to the live traffic, can you move it in a bit?
He said not, he was properly flat, empty. We couldn't move it as the brakes had locked on.
The Tesla computer said he had 22 extra miles to make his destination when he set out, but it was night, lights required, raining, wipers required, and cold, heater required, so I imagine these factors help to reduce his range.
So he had to wait approx 2 hours in his steamed up, cold Tesla in the dark, with his wife and baby in the car, probably not even able to charge his phone up, until a recovery truck turned up to drag it on their back and take him god knows where.

I realised then, I'm not anywhere near ready for a electric car yet. I'll stick to my 296k miles Audi A4.

Stef.

[bare]

Pissing into the wind here guys.
Electrics are here and comming on Fast. There are now 6 Teslas living on my street. 5 of which appeared since May.
Family friends have a Tesla distribution center. They move close to 200 Cars/month.
Mercedes, BMW and Auditty sales Numbers are on the floor. Local dealers are having 'liquidity' issues.
Only thing even hindering the flood is their Purchase price.
But then here on the Wet coast we Have an excess of Electrical grid power, being Hydrolelectric as opposed to the UK Coal fired abominations.
As for Performance? Geez.. Test Driving one.. is all it takes to convert even the most jaded Luddite.. Full charge ~300kms is typically 3$ (not GBPS)
The acceleration is nothing less than frightening. Paining ones' innards as they smash against ones ribcage when one is stupid enough to wot the things..
Instant Full power torque from a standstill.

Hydrogen... really !?? that ship sailed and sank decades ago.

[simon998]

Here, I was all against Electric Vehicles for years. Had a go on a (slightly modded) Sur-ron electric bicycle and jesus-h-christ it was a weapon. It showed 55mph on the gps before I chickened out, a BICYCLE. My mate that owns it had a top speed of 76mph recorded on the gps, f*ck anything to do with sittiing on a mountain bike at 70+, but still. It was such an experience, instant power. If you touched the throttle at all and weren't paying 100% attention, it lifted the front and spat you off. I'd recommend trying one before making too much judgement.

Standard one:




Couple of renders for road versions:




Loads of mods to them too

[lc2]

Oct 17, 2021 3:19:10 GMT 1 bare said:

Pissing into the wind here guys.
Electrics are here and comming on Fast. There are now 6 Teslas living on my street. 5 of which appeared since May.
Family friends have a Tesla distribution center. They move close to 200 Cars/month.
Mercedes, BMW and Auditty sales Numbers are on the floor. Local dealers are having 'liquidity' issues.
Only thing even hindering the flood is their Purchase price.
But then here on the Wet coast we Have an excess of Electrical grid power, being Hydrolelectric as opposed to the UK Coal fired abominations.
As for Performance? Geez.. Test Driving one.. is all it takes to convert even the most jaded Luddite.. Full charge ~300kms is typically 3$ (not GBPS)
The acceleration is nothing less than frightening. Paining ones' innards as they smash against ones ribcage when one is stupid enough to wot the things..
Instant Full power torque from a standstill.

Hydrogen... really !?? that ship sailed and sank decades ago.

UK coal fired powerstations ? I think you need to check your information source. At the same time have a look at the % of power generated from renewables in the USA compared to the UK, America is way behind.

[cb250g5]

My Tesla is fabulous. It's the future.

I'd love to try an electric bike, but they can't crack the range issue with current (no pun intended) battery technology.

[4l04ever]

Oct 17, 2021 8:56:51 GMT 1 lc2 said:

Oct 17, 2021 3:19:10 GMT 1 bare said:

Pissing into the wind here guys.
Electrics are here and comming on Fast. There are now 6 Teslas living on my street. 5 of which appeared since May.
Family friends have a Tesla distribution center. They move close to 200 Cars/month.
Mercedes, BMW and Auditty sales Numbers are on the floor. Local dealers are having 'liquidity' issues.
Only thing even hindering the flood is their Purchase price.
But then here on the Wet coast we Have an excess of Electrical grid power, being Hydrolelectric as opposed to the UK Coal fired abominations.
As for Performance? Geez.. Test Driving one.. is all it takes to convert even the most jaded Luddite.. Full charge ~300kms is typically 3$ (not GBPS)
The acceleration is nothing less than frightening. Paining ones' innards as they smash against ones ribcage when one is stupid enough to wot the things..
Instant Full power torque from a standstill.

Hydrogen... really !?? that ship sailed and sank decades ago.

UK coal fired powerstations ? I think you need to check your information source. At the same time have a look at the % of power generated from renewables in the USA compared to the UK, America is way behind.

I think there are more power stations in UK powered by Russian gas...

[tony2stroke]

Oct 17, 2021 7:04:45 GMT 1 simon998 said:

Here, I was all against Electric Vehicles for years. Had a go on a (slightly modded) Sur-ron electric bicycle and jesus-h-christ it was a weapon. It showed 55mph on the gps before I chickened out, a BICYCLE. My mate that owns it had a top speed of 76mph recorded on the gps, f*ck anything to do with sittiing on a mountain bike at 70+, but still. It was such an experience, instant power. If you touched the throttle at all and weren't paying 100% attention, it lifted the front and spat you off. I'd recommend trying one before making too much judgement.

Loads of mods to them too

I watched a program with Guy Martin a few weeks ago, he had one of these things, he flipped it in the 1st few seconds, he put it in 3rd gear and WOT, front wheel lifted and spat him off, he was all, don't tell me how to ride a bike, until he went on it, then he was all full of a new found respect.

[steve h]

Here's one for the jaded luddites...... Mr Porsche's first.
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porsche_P1#:~:text=In%20the%20year%20%EE%80%801898%EE%80%81%2C%20Ferdinand%20Porsche%20designed%20his,all%20of%20the%20key%20components%20of%20the%20vehicle.

He did progress onto more advanced methods of propulsion though...he wasn't a committed luddite.

I've driven electric vehicles plenty of times, and great fun they were too. The whiplash used to be a bit of a problem when you were trying to smash your mates out of the rink.

[headcoats]

[JonW]

Very little is going to give you the feeling of the 2 stroke powerband in the future, unless you deliberately code that into something like electric.

The reason is that its not something everyone can master and most modern drivers are so bad they need linear power delivery, even modern turbo performance cars dont have the 'nothing-nothing-everything!' feel of the turbos of old. Turbo development in cars moved really fast and by the 90s most were very drivable compared to the 80s monsters, but even what is now 20 year old turbo performance cars still have a bit of lag low down, even tho back then they seemed to have none compared to only a few years previously. However today thats all but gone and has been for years really, better fuel and timing handled by faster working computers fed by lots of sensors and turbo design removed it.

Of course many modern bad drivers dont even want to drive themselves given the choice, they know they are bad at it and would rather be driven. How many (usually younger and older) people do you know who dislike motorways? especially joining them and lots of people freak out about roundabouts... Swindons Magic roundabout is a case in point - Ive heard a few people say over the years they close their eyes and just go! WTAF?! Confidence on the road is a double edged sword and there are so many distractions in the modern world, not least the amount of people out and about.

Dont worry, it wont be long before we're driven by the car anyway so will not fussed about how its propelled (it will also trot off and feed itself when not being used etc), you just sit back and let it get on with it. ok, im not keen on that future either, but doing your own driving when the computers do it for everyone else will be impossible as the insurance would bankrupt you. We will look back and wonder how they let us drive 1+ tonne of metal around at speed with almost no training (certainly not regular testing!) and often only a foot away from an ambling pedestrian on a footpath or a cyclist etc etc...

[stirling11]

Oct 15, 2021 21:05:37 GMT 1 andy748 said:

Steve, i have always said we need a standard battery for all electric cars which can be swapped in minutes on the motorway and A road network, charge the buggers with wind/solar, buy a car but rent the battery, but the manufacturers are too niche to adopt this, why should my Audi battery fit a Kia, that doesn't fit with our demographic. It will never work, and i will drink petrol till i shuffle off this mortal coil. Andy.

That very idea you are promoting is actually happening in the electric motor cycle world

All the big Japanese are getting together to come up with a standard battery, KTM and Piaggio are involved too

Much like you go and pay to fill up with petrol, when your battery is flat, you then pay to rent a fully charged one and you swap out the batteries and pay just like you would for fuel

Because the batteries are standardised, it will matter not which brand of electric bike you have, you unplug one battery put it in the charging rack and pop in a fully charged one

So fuel stations will become charging stations essentially, it'll still be a long way of though, at least it's being thought about

[JonW]

Oct 18, 2021 1:28:27 GMT 1 stirling11 said:

Oct 15, 2021 21:05:37 GMT 1 andy748 said:

Steve, i have always said we need a standard battery for all electric cars which can be swapped in minutes on the motorway and A road network, charge the buggers with wind/solar, buy a car but rent the battery, but the manufacturers are too niche to adopt this, why should my Audi battery fit a Kia, that doesn't fit with our demographic. It will never work, and i will drink petrol till i shuffle off this mortal coil. Andy.

That very idea you are promoting is actually happening in the electric motor cycle world

All the big Japanese are getting together to come up with a standard battery, KTM and Piaggio are involved too

Much like you go and pay to fill up with petrol, when your battery is flat, you then pay to rent a fully charged one and you swap out the batteries and pay just like you would for fuel

Because the batteries are standardised, it will matter not which brand of electric bike you have, you unplug one battery put it in the charging rack and pop in a fully charged one

So fuel stations will become charging stations essentially, it'll still be a long way of though, at least it's being thought about

Like a gas or chlorine bottle swap

The only issue i see with this is that when you come in you always have something in the battery, but perhaps they credit you with the charge you give back.

The issue with cars is that the battery is huge and not very swappable at the mo. tho you could drive and swap an undertray unit i guess.

Still wont fix the middle of no where breakdown, but thats the same with fuel cars now. dont fill up or believe the computer and you'll be stranded. Ive been there with a used BMW on a test drive, said it had 27 miles in it. It had 3. not impressed walking back to dealer as couldnt raise them on the phone.