Interesting 🤔 let's see how far from topic this goes

[midlifecrisisrd]

Just saw this on ebay, they have another non tie bar set

It looks to me like the lines are recut. Now I wonder what the legality of this is as they have removed one ID and offering to stamp another

First time I've seen Yam stamps mind

www.ebay.co.uk/itm/203647102804

Steve

[copper99]

Seller is the chap who built the Pro Am bikes, Daryll Young aka IDP Moto.

The lines I believe are not re-cut, thats how they where supplied from Yam if you bought new ones mate.

[shaunthe2nd]

Great option for anyone looking for a matching numbers bike.
Looks like they use the same stamp for the 6 and 9.

[chrisg]

Oct 11, 2021 18:09:23 GMT 1 midlifecrisisrd said:

Just saw this on ebay, they have another non tie bar set

It looks to me like the lines are recut. Now I wonder what the legality of this is as they have removed one ID and offering to stamp another

First time I've seen Yam stamps mind

www.ebay.co.uk/itm/203647102804

Steve

I don't think the dvla are bothered about engine numbers too much. It's the frame number that is the legal identification of the bike.

[rigga]

I don't see the issue, if you have a damaged set of cases, and they stamp the number you already have onto the new case, but probably an issue if you want a different number, which you currently do not own put on there.

Now if you have a non matching engine, you could in theory think that the original, which is not fitted, has long gone and will never ever surface, but you never know .

But as previously mentioned, does anyone take any notice of the engine number? Its always the frame number.

[midlifecrisisrd]

Oct 11, 2021 18:24:19 GMT 1 copper99 said:

Seller is the chap who built the Pro Am bikes, Daryll Young aka IDP Moto.

The lines I believe are not re-cut, thats how they where supplied from Yam if you bought new ones mate.

Yes they are like that blank but the rear edge of any case I've ever seen does not have a perfect grooved rear edge. Most have a smooth line at the rear from either the cast or rubbed smooth

Either that or imperfections where they have been knocked or rubbed

Also the front edge looks lower with clear grooves

If they are recut it's a really good job

Steve

[midlifecrisisrd]

Oct 11, 2021 19:54:03 GMT 1 rigga said:

I don't see the issue, if you have a damaged set of cases, and they stamp the number you already have onto the new case, but probably an issue if you want a different number, which you currently do not own put on there.

Now if you have a non matching engine, you could in theory think that the original, which is not fitted, has long gone and will never ever surface, but you never know .

But as previously mentioned, does anyone take any notice of the engine number? Its always the frame number.

Totally agree with what you say if you have trashed cases then it's the perfect solution to keep your numbers

The issue I see is that I reckon a lot of non matching bikes will have a matching number engine some where

Back in the day we didn't care about numbers so when an engine popped you just picked up another and either slung the other under the bench or punted it

Chances are that if everyone restamped the matching number there would be duplicate engines

When I first owned my ypvs back in the 1989 I couldn't tell you if it was matching numbers

Fast forward 20 years and it deffo wasn't as bought the frame on its own

10 years later I found it's original cases, a total fluke

How many others are still out there

The big problem would be if a bike is stolen then technically the engine number is linked to the theft

Not so much a problem from years ago but speaking from experience I've had an LC nicked in recent times

Now if I saw those cases on ebay...

Steve

[veg]

The problem irrespective of whether dvla care is that as soon as you stamp and engine number you don’t own, it’s fraud, now that maybe ok for you if you’re thinking no one will check, however there are a couple of things that could bite you. You sell said bike and it’s represented as a matching numbers bike fraud by false representation, you inadvertently buy said bike, it’s not what it says it is, then you get stopped by the old bill, bike will potentially be seized, now if you’ve been unlucky enough to have the engine number from say a bike that’s been nicked fraud and theft/burglary.
Bike will be seized etc etc
Oh and the police will record engine and frame numbers of stolen vehicles.

[steve63]

Oct 12, 2021 6:50:38 GMT 1 veg said:

Oh and the police will record engine and frame numbers of stolen vehicles.

I'm not sure they will. When my sons YZ125 was stolen in 2015 they said they only registered the frame number on any kind of data base and only in the Humberside Police area. They said there was no national data base. So I said if the engine turned up in West Yorkshire for instance it would no be traced back to here and she said no, not unless someone suspected something and asked Humberside to look into it. I think you are giving them too much credit. It was also Data Tagged and no one was interested. They never took the details of that even when I offered it.  

if you put an engine that had been originally in a stolen bike into another bike the chances of anything coming of it are slim to none and If two bikes had the same engine number I'm 99.99% sure nothing would happen. 

I have an LC engine in my garage that came out of my cousins LC. Long story but we swapped engines. I never changed the log book because I fitted an YPVS engine and he never changed the log book either. Anything could have happened to that bike of his. Stolen, scrapped or still on the road. If it was stolen, as a lot of them were, then that engine number would be registered as stolen as it was on the log book. I've often wondered what would happen if I applied for the log book for the frame with the engine number. Might apply for it and see.

[veg]

When a crime is raised it creates a URN that consists of the police force number then area number then the crime number then year. When a vehicle is reported stolen the vrn (vehicle recognition number) or reg number is recorded alongside the chassis number and if applicable the engine number. This is then placed onto the pnc (police national computer) which is just that national to England and Wales.
The pnc holds details of vehicles, individuals, etc etc then they cross reference to the force and the crime number and often the oic (officer in the case).
The intelligence systems in each force can be independent but are able to be cross referenced by the control rooms as well as the crime management systems. Other systems such as ‘visor ‘ are national systems.
Most forces unfortunately do not have specialist motor crime units but will have officers trained in stolen vehicle recognition often traffic officers.
I obviously don’t know who you dealt with or why you were told what you were told, however in my professional experience that isn’t the case, there could have been a radical undoing of the system in the past few years and all the systems that had been put into place over the previous 30 years and all the checks and balances that have taken time to accrue have been removed but I suspect that it is unlikely.
Logically why have no way of identifying stolen vehicles nationwide that have been nicked, that would play into billy burglar and Tommy twocers hands.
I don’t disbelieve you, I would however question the veracity of what you were told and wonder who it was that told you it? And their level of professionalism.

[midlifecrisisrd]

I remember years ago a mate picked up a Sierra Cosworth project

An awful lot of work had went into it and it was hard to believe someone would put so much into it and then just sell as on

It had been built from a brand new 3 door shell but all new 4 wheel drive running gear and registered on a 93 K plate

The story was that it was built and registered with an engine linked to a stolen vehicle which was discovered after it was registered

Engine could not be proved stolen and he was basically advised to sell it to distance himself from it

Somehow it came to light so there was a record somewhere

Now whether that engine was in a stolen car or whether it was linked to a ringed vehicle or whether the engine was previously from a car that had a blown motor and had been swapped but the v5 not updated I don't know

Steve

[stusco]

My brother bought a 31k in the 90’s the police came and seized not long after he got his v5 back ,turned out it was stolen and restamped on both engine and frame i had checked the numbers matched the v5 but never noticed the font , he got it back as the police couldn’t find the original numbers ,he sold it immediately and gave up on bikes after that he had just had his tdr250 stolen third party only, i gave him a dt175 it got nicked out of his garage no insurance as it wasn’t on the road yet

[veg]

Absolutely right Martin but you do insist on reading that rag lol

[mouse]

FFS!

Mouse

[29davyt]

And here’s me thinking this thread was about Re-Stamped cases 😂

[dusty350]

Why are we even having this conversation on this bike forum
Seems a few bellends here are having a pop at other members - tell me I'm wrong ?
Take your hate elsewhere - I'm tired of reading it

[dusty350]

f**k off you prick

[midlifecrisisrd]

To be honest I caught up on this thread this morning and again tonight and initially forgot it was actually a thread I started and was about engine cases 🙄

I understand Dusty's frustration

Yes there are car threads on here but tend to be in car related threads in a 4 stroke section

Its just getting out of hand again ☹

Steve

[steve h]

I had a good look at my "new" cases today, and I must say, they look exactly the same as the ones featured on this thread. The lines are the same (minus the numbers of course)

[chrisg]

Oct 15, 2021 19:16:26 GMT 1 29davyt said:

And here’s me thinking this thread was about Re-Stamped cases 😂

That's forums for you 😆

[mouse]

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, we, luckily, live in a free world.

However i joined this forum as i believed it was for people who have a genuine love/interest and passion in one particular range of Yamaha motorcycles, nothing more complicated. For me at least, they are a passion and also an escape from all the unpleasant (real if you like) 'goings on' in the world. I choose to involve myself with them for me, it does not have to involve anyone else should i wish it so, but and this is where the forum comes in if i choose to, i know there are like minded souls on this forum who will know/understand what i am experiencing and also offer a lot of free help/advice.

But recently there seem to have been a few people joining the forum who seem to enjoy upsetting and causing general discord on subjects completely unrelated to what i perceive this forum to be about, WHY?? Life can be tough, maybe your life is so lacking? maybe you are just very bitter? to be honest i neither know nor care, but please maybe find a more suitable forum to vent on, or just wander around the streets ranting.

I don't mean to offend, but really this is putting me and i'm sure others off this forum and good people who have been on here for a lot longer than me will start to leave and if that happens it will end up like every other forum and this is an excellent forum as so many say.

Mouse

[mouse]

Really??

Mouse

[dusty350]

Every chance you get, you have a pop at Veg. The way you talk about the Police is bound to get anyone employed, currently or previously with the Police, angry. You use the word "perverts" when talking about Police Officers, and use a "puke emojji" too. If you think we dont all know that is meant to get a rise out of certain members here you are more stupid than you would appear.
This is a thread about engine cases, that morphed into Police numbers and investigation of thefts - all relevant to the thread, but I fail to see how your first reply;

"Some lovely people in the Police FORCE these days "

is at all relevant ?
As already said, there are good and bad in every walk of life, but this forum is not the place to vent whatever anger you have towards the Police or whoever, and certainly not in this thread - you've used it as a platform to have a dig at a long standing member who you know is an Ex Police Officer. You are not clever enough to hide it, so dont make out we've all got it wrong !
I dont know what beef you have with the Police, and frankly dont care, but whatever it is, deal with it elsewhere, not here. This is a bike forum, and a happy place - a getaway for us all - away from whatever shite we all have in our lives outside, and we dont need people bringing their hatred of whatever, in here and spoiling the scene. You dont know how many members here are either serving or ex Police Officers, and your inflammatory remarks may well upset more members than you realise.
Here is an example for you. My auntie had a carer who stole money from her handbag. Does that make all carers thieves ? Should I have a go at all carers because of that ? No, of course not, coz most are decent people doing a brilliant and difficult job for crap money, but there are plenty that are wrong uns that haven't been caught yet ! That sound fair ?? Do I pop at anyone who may be a carer ? No I dont, because (A) I have a brain, and (B) it wouldn't be relevant to bring it up on a bike forum even if I did have a problem with carers !(which I dont), And it doesn't have to be carers - choose any job you like.
This forum is turning into Facebook I'm afraid. I'm all for freedom of speech, but there is no room for hate or keyboard warriors in my book. If you have a beef, stand in front of someone and have the bollox to say it to their face, rather than hide behind a screen. Too many throw away comments made that do real damage going on now.

And regards Veg's Sale thread for his Lc hybrid. Since when is it ok for members here to hijack a Sale thread and try and undermine the bike for sale ? I notice Headcoats - Martin - tried a couple of times to copy and paste quotes from Veg's build thread making out the bike wasn't fit for sale. Any potential buyer would do his own evaluation of the bike, and I know Veg would be up front and honest regards the bike for sale. It's not for others to try to scupper or comment negatively on a bike sale they have no intention of purchasing. It's out of order.
Lets all move on, and leave your hate at the door when you enter.

Dusty

[headcoats]

They weren't my words

Someone was going to get their fingers burnt ,so who's protecting who ?

My Dad was a copper and treated his family appallingly, that job changes people and not for the best

[midlifecrisisrd]

You can't say someone was going to get their fingers burned

Firstly the build thread was clear for anyone interested to read

Secondly you are assuming that there would be no discussion with the new buyer and that the seller was going to con the buyer

I do believe being a police officer can change some people

When you see the abuse they take and a lot of people's attitude when they are trying to do their job. You know the one to protect the rest of us

Steve

[midlifecrisisrd]

This kind of shite just discourages me from posting

Sad day when a bike discussion forum makes people feel like not talking about them

Steve

[Robbieben]

In all walks of life there are bad apples, judge people by how they treat you and others around you.

Now getting back to numbers on cases...I had a CBX550 in the early 80's, it had 5 engines in 2 years, each engine had its own number but was also stamped by Manchester Honda when it was replaced wit a 3 digit number, I don't know if it was for a legal reason or possibly something to do with their job number but it was stamped. I never did change the engine number on the log book.

[steve h]

Oct 16, 2021 10:46:43 GMT 1 Robbieben said:

In all walks of life there are bad apples, judge people by how they treat you and others around you.

Now getting back to numbers on cases...I had a CBX550 in the early 80's, it had 5 engines in 2 years, each engine had its own number but was also stamped by Manchester Honda when it was replaced wit a 3 digit number, I don't know if it was for a legal reason or possibly something to do with their job number but it was stamped. I never did change the engine number on the log book.

5 engines?? in two years?? A Honda??
Did a camchain tensioner fail on every one of them?

[chrisg]

It may be time to delete this thread and move on. It's all getting very personal and that's no good for anyone or the forum. JMHO

[steve63]

Oct 16, 2021 10:46:43 GMT 1 Robbieben said:

In all walks of life there are bad apples, judge people by how they treat you and others around you.

Now getting back to numbers on cases...I had a CBX550 in the early 80's, it had 5 engines in 2 years, each engine had its own number but was also stamped by Manchester Honda when it was replaced wit a 3 digit number, I don't know if it was for a legal reason or possibly something to do with their job number but it was stamped. I never did change the engine number on the log book.

I put a YPVS F1 engine in my LC in 1986. I was stopped now and again as we were when there was a Traffic Division but it wasn't until about 1993 that anyone had ever looked at the engine number but for some reason I can't remember an officer did. I told him I'd just put the engine in and had just sent the log book off. I did send the log book off later that day.

They never used to look at frame numbers as part of the MOT. Unknown to me, until a few days later, a mate took my RD200 with his number plate on and got himself an MOT for his bike. That must have been about 1980.