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Post by lc350pete on Nov 17, 2020 0:29:45 GMT 1
Is there something amiss with this engine number I thought that the area where the number is stamped in is always a ribbed finish like the second one but this one is smooth where the numbers are , it doesn’t look messed with   |
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Post by shaunthe2nd on Nov 17, 2020 0:38:27 GMT 1
It's a ringer. Should be on a ribbed background as you say. The numbers are wrong font too. Look at the 3 and 0 and compare to your lower pic. Nicely stamped but still ring a ding.
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Post by lc350pete on Nov 17, 2020 0:43:57 GMT 1
It's a ringer. Should be on a ribbed background as you say. The numbers are wrong font too. Look at the 3 and 0 and compare to your lower pic. Nicely stamped but still ring a ding. Ahh I see thanks, I thought something was wrong it’s an pair of engine cases that I’ve had for ages found them in the loft when going through my parts I think I bought them at an auto jumble or something similar nearly 20 years ago and never used |
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Post by wwwRD350LCnet on Nov 17, 2020 6:11:15 GMT 1
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Post by JonW on Nov 17, 2020 8:45:08 GMT 1
In case anyone reading this later doesnt have a 31K... not every market had the stars... So quite a few of these engines with codes and number but no stars... same with frames. The engine number here is wrong cos of the ribs (simple fix really these days) but have to say the font is actually very good. usually they are what they could get at Machine Mart etc and so often way off. |
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Post by lc350pete on Nov 17, 2020 9:41:12 GMT 1
thanks everyone I thought that something was wrong with it, whoever did it took their time as it’s dead flat and same level as an original number , certainly must have fooled me when I originally bought the engine cases years ago, forgot I had them, found them in the loft when I was looking for something else
The chain area has been broken and welded up as well
Luckily I have another spare set of cases if I need them
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Post by JonW on Nov 17, 2020 9:52:50 GMT 1
If its a bike for you and you'll never sell it, does it matter after all these years I wonder?
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Post by lc350pete on Nov 17, 2020 9:55:10 GMT 1
If its a bike for you and you'll never sell it, does it matter after all these years I wonder? Yes I know what you mean but it would always bug me |
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Post by midlifecrisisrd on Nov 17, 2020 9:58:25 GMT 1
I think if sticking them in a hybrid no one would give a crap
As long if selling the cases or bike on you point it out there is no problem
LC frame with v5 on EBay last week which stated restamped vin and it still sold for decent money
An engine restamped is a different story to that
Steve
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Post by JonW on Nov 17, 2020 10:03:29 GMT 1
How many more engine are out there I wonder waiting to be built...? We will run out at some point and stuff like this will be 'acceptable' then  |
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Post by lc350pete on Nov 17, 2020 10:10:46 GMT 1
How many more engine are out there I wonder waiting to be built...? We will run out at some point and stuff like this will be 'acceptable' then Yes that’s true I was thinking that they are scrap but you have a point I will keep them just in case there can’t be that many spare YPVS engines around now |
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Post by Tobyjugs on Nov 17, 2020 16:35:22 GMT 1
I think it would be fine in a bike which was not used on public roads such as a track bike.
Not so long ago there was a lot of agro between 2 members on this forum because one was selling a bike with a different engine number and the other member wanted to buy it and thought it was dodgy and tried to warn all the forum members here about it.
Right or wrong who knows. I have got a new set of banshee cases with no engine number on it.
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Post by 29davyt on Nov 17, 2020 17:49:08 GMT 1
Agree with Tobyjugs ! Be ok for use not on public roads ie a track bike, I’d certainly walk if I went to buy a £5K + bike and came across this on inspection, just not worth the hassle which at some point it will be 🧐
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Post by jon on Nov 17, 2020 18:04:14 GMT 1
100% agree. Only one reason for doing this as far as I see? If your excuse is to stop informing DVLA of an engine change, I cannot see it’s valid. It’s easy enough I’ve done it on loads of vehicles. Likewise if your stamping matching numbers in my eyes your decreasing value, not increasing it.
Moreover if the cases were stamped and bought empty, the contents one put into them would all get confiscated by the law if ever they twigged it.
Why take that risk?
Jon
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Post by lc350pete on Nov 17, 2020 19:56:49 GMT 1
Yes agree with you guys I’m not intending to use it just posted up out of interest and to confirm that it was dodgy it didn’t look right to me 👍😀
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Post by firmstools on Nov 17, 2020 21:39:16 GMT 1
I would presume that if a bike and its ID was registered as stolen in the 80s its numbers are still hot today?
In which case its just not worth the risk of using this sort of thing today, if your bike was all legit except for the case number it would break your heart to have it taken off you
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Post by JonW on Nov 18, 2020 13:03:07 GMT 1
I would think it unlikely its 'hot', the original numbers that were ground off probably were tho. I expect it was 'ringed' to a V5 from a crashed bike back in the day.
Agreed its 'not ideal' and no its not 'right', but if we chuck all these things away... well... If you want to be sure it will never get sold and used like it is, grind the numbers off. That way it cant be registered on a bike on the road again.
To be honest anyone with a mill (even better a CNC machine) and some time on their hands could redo the ribbed background and the cut in numbers. The modern world makes for much easier ringing really.
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Post by reedpete on Nov 18, 2020 13:25:19 GMT 1
Shouldn’t be a shortage of cases for YPVS bikes. There are oodles of 29L bikes/engines out there . The current tragedy is that at this very moment they are all being smashed for scrap in Asia .
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Post by JonW on Nov 18, 2020 13:30:18 GMT 1
Its the UK I was thinking of, people dont want to import a set of cases Id think... expensive post and import duty and vat etc will kill those deals, plus a 29K isnt a 31K etc.
(bear in mind the banshee is the same as well, but who wants that engine number... of course you could just ring em to fit, er, we got here cos of all that in the 80s... i'll get me coat)
Has to be said tho... at least these cases are ringed as a 31K. Ive seen plenty of engines and frames ringed from SR250 and other similar yams from the mis 70s onwards.
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Post by reedpete on Nov 18, 2020 13:42:15 GMT 1
will edit previous but meant 29L not K anyway, Agree not massively attractive to import a single set of cases but the parts guys are bringing in containers of bikes and stuff. I don’t get hung up on numbers so if I’m building a LC hybrid then any set YPVS cases is fine. As for banshee, I know the gearbox is not particularly desirable on a bike but strength wise but for big bore top ends I thought they were the preferred cases?
My main point was supply and demand will drive what you can buy here in the UK, if 31k cases dry up then 29L will be the option. times change....remember we are hopefully all still going to be at this for another 20 years 😮
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Post by steve63 on Nov 18, 2020 23:59:17 GMT 1
Could they be brand new cases stamped to match the old ones? Looks a 'professional job' very straight.
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lc2
Weekend rider
Posts: 84
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Post by lc2 on Nov 19, 2020 7:42:17 GMT 1
New cases have the ridges, from the factory the stamp marks are were offten uneven.
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Post by russpuss on Nov 19, 2020 18:46:08 GMT 1
If they were hot in the day they’ll have been paid out on now. Get them in a milling machine to put the lines back on, hey presto no numbers and build an engine.
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Post by jon on Nov 19, 2020 19:24:42 GMT 1
If they were hot in the day they’ll have been paid out on now. Get them in a milling machine to put the lines back on, hey presto no numbers and build an engine. Ethics aside, it’s not really that simple restamping cases or machining them back with ridges. Unless enough material can be removed the original numbers can be seen via a number of methods including x-ray. The stamping causes the metal surrounding and going into the case to become compressed and will show witness of the old number. Jon |
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Post by russpuss on Nov 19, 2020 19:41:52 GMT 1
If they were hot in the day they’ll have been paid out on now. Get them in a milling machine to put the lines back on, hey presto no numbers and build an engine. Ethics aside, it’s not really that simple restamping cases or machining them back with ridges. Unless enough material can be removed the original numbers can be seen via a number of methods including x-ray. The stamping causes the metal surrounding and going into the case to become compressed and will show witness of the old number. Jon When was the last time you saw someone pulled and their engine x-rayed? I know of at least 30+ engines out there that have been milled and also have had new numbers put on. I wouldn’t add new numbers personally but there’s cases out there with no numbers being used and it’s a shame to waste those cases is what I’m getting at. |
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Post by chrisg on Nov 19, 2020 19:53:22 GMT 1
My best guess is that they have replaced the engine or cases and want a "matching numbers" bike. I dont think that there is a legal requirement to have an engine number. The frame is a different matter. You can insure and MOT a bike on the frame number even if you dont have a registration number, so clearly the frame (VIN) has legal standing.
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Post by andy748 on Nov 19, 2020 22:41:22 GMT 1
I get the matching numbers piece, but, how would you feel if you had an original stamped engine in your bike (Hybrid/non matching numbers bike) and lets say you were at a show/rally/searching E-Bay and you spotted a bike with your engine numbers in a matching numbers bike? I personally wouldn't be very happy. Andy.
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Post by chrisg on Nov 19, 2020 22:48:51 GMT 1
I get the matching numbers piece, but, how would you feel if you had an original stamped engine in your bike (Hybrid/non matching numbers bike) and lets say you were at a show/rally/searching E-Bay and you spotted a bike with your engine numbers in a matching numbers bike? I personally wouldn't be very happy. Andy. No definitely, it’s a con, but I see why it’s been done. I’m not condoning it, especially if someone’s paid an extra £500 for a matching numbers bike. |
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Post by andy748 on Nov 20, 2020 9:48:27 GMT 1
I get the matching numbers piece, but, how would you feel if you had an original stamped engine in your bike (Hybrid/non matching numbers bike) and lets say you were at a show/rally/searching E-Bay and you spotted a bike with your engine numbers in a matching numbers bike? I personally wouldn't be very happy. Andy. No definitely, it’s a con, but I see why it’s been done. I’m not condoning it, especially if someone’s paid an extra £500 for a matching numbers bike. Got me thinking this one Chris, i wonder how many "Duplicate" engines are out there? Plod don't check, i bet there's a fair few! Andy. |
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Post by chrisg on Nov 20, 2020 11:23:40 GMT 1
I bet there are few bikes that have been cloned as well. ie, accident damaged frames that have had their number transplanted onto another frame that has been stolen or imported to enable the original V5 to be used.
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