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Post by Dieseldog on Apr 16, 2020 12:14:28 GMT 1
I'm slowly getting to bottom of erratic rev counter when lights switched on. Been searching for bad connection for several hours/days now. Stripped all electrics from switches, connectors etc, only thing rigged up is Ignitech ignition, engine starts rev counter OK, directly wire lights to battery and rev counter gives same erratic reading up and down as when bike wired up via harness. Further investigation battery holding 12.6 volts, at start up getting 13.7v, when engine revved it slowly drops to around 13v, but at approx 2k rpm only 8v, as revs increase getting 13v again. Question for electric qurus, regulator or alternator faulty?
Should mention it's an Acewell speedo/rev counter, was working fine earlier in year.
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Post by midlifecrisisrd on Apr 16, 2020 13:36:23 GMT 1
A good battery should be 13.2v
Regulator would be my first suspect
Meter the resistance on all 3 charge coils to check they are the same
It is unlikely more than 1 charge coil would fail
Steve
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Post by Shytalk on Apr 16, 2020 17:08:23 GMT 1
Sounds like the battery is not 100%
Plus the charging circuit is not working normally either, the battery voltage should remain constant, within a volt or so regardless of revs.
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Post by 4l04ever on Apr 16, 2020 23:32:29 GMT 1
You can measure the AC voltage on each pair of the three stator white wires. I think it should be around 40V to 60V A/C. Measure each pair at the 2,000rpm mark and see if they are all roughly the same. So if you label the wires A,B,C then you measure between A and B, A and C, then B & C.
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Post by Dieseldog on Apr 17, 2020 6:41:57 GMT 1
Cheers lads, will check what you have suggested.
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Post by muttsnuts on Apr 17, 2020 9:25:54 GMT 1
sounds like a faulty battery, what make is it, if MF bin it - I've had several MF batteries that look ok, but give out varying volts for no apparent reason - I'd try a new/different battery
I am assuming its been fine with the ignitech etc and has just started ? - as if you use the wrong RPM wire you will get erractic signals as you have a low voltage RPM wire (green/yellow) and a high voltage RPM wire (Purple with connector on) - again assuming you have the ignitech unit I sell as there are differences between units
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Post by earthman on Apr 17, 2020 9:47:45 GMT 1
A good battery should be 13.2v Regulator would be my first suspect Meter the resistance on all 3 charge coils to check they are the same It is unlikely more than 1 charge coil would fail Steve How long have you experienced a battery to read over 13v for? Personally, I've seen that straight after ones come off a charger but the reading still drops to 12. Something within hours or a day or two at best. |
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Post by Shytalk on Apr 17, 2020 10:02:56 GMT 1
A good battery should be 13.2v Regulator would be my first suspect Meter the resistance on all 3 charge coils to check they are the same It is unlikely more than 1 charge coil would fail Steve How long have you experienced a battery to read over 13v for? I would think that Steve’s referring to the system when the engine is running, as you rightly point out it soon drops off when not being charged one way or another. |
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Post by midlifecrisisrd on Apr 17, 2020 10:50:01 GMT 1
A good battery should be 13.2v Regulator would be my first suspect Meter the resistance on all 3 charge coils to check they are the same It is unlikely more than 1 charge coil would fail Steve How long have you experienced a battery to read over 13v for? Personally, I've seen that straight after ones come off a charger but the reading still drops to 12. Something within hours or a day or two at best. In a "perfect" scenario a lead acid battery will be 13.2v with no load on it The battery is made out of 6 cells which are 2.2v each. These are connected in series so adds to 13.2v First year apprentiship stuff 😁 In real life it will be around 12.8v or so on in use Charging voltage on a ypvs is 14v @ 5000 rpm to give a normal charge rate of 0.5a Steve |
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Post by midlifecrisisrd on Apr 17, 2020 11:15:35 GMT 1
Also just to clarify a fully charged lead acid battery reading 12.5v or lower is either not fully charged or on the way out
Steve
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Post by cb250g5 on Apr 17, 2020 13:14:46 GMT 1
Memories.....
I used to look after a pair of lead acid batteries. 3600AH each, Nominal 50V.
Used to have to top them up with a hosepipe, open cells, so plenty of evaporation, you never went in the battery room in your best jeans.
Charged from the mains, but we had a deltic diesel (ex BR) as a genny, if the power went off.
Charging was fun. Saturday morning, separate the 2 batteries, one on load the other just free floating. Big knife switch carry on, always hold your breath. Connect a spare power supply to the free floating one and give it 4 hours or so. Then disconnect and leave to settle.
There would be 2 or 3 volts difference between the 2 at initial disconnect, but at 3600AH each, that's a lot of power. Wait until home time and hope they were of similar voltage, and reconnect knife switch. Big sparks time. I used to push it home from the far end of a 6 foot broom.
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Post by Gitram on Apr 17, 2020 18:17:27 GMT 1
a Deltic... when i were a lad.. me and a couple of mates used to go round to our local railway station in the summer hols when we were bored and wait to see if one would come by, often the driver saw us and cracked it open as it went through.. and it looked pretty evil too.. fab
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Post by cb250g5 on Apr 17, 2020 18:54:48 GMT 1
a Deltic... when i were a lad.. me and a couple of mates used to go round to our local railway station in the summer hols when we were bored and wait to see if one would come by, often the driver saw us and cracked it open as it went through.. and it looked pretty evil too.. fab We broke it, but that's another story. |
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Post by Dieseldog on Apr 18, 2020 10:07:50 GMT 1
sounds like a faulty battery, what make is it, if MF bin it - I've had several MF batteries that look ok, but give out varying volts for no apparent reason - I'd try a new/different battery I am assuming its been fine with the ignitech etc and has just started ? - as if you use the wrong RPM wire you will get erractic signals as you have a low voltage RPM wire (green/yellow) and a high voltage RPM wire (Purple with connector on) - again assuming you have the ignitech unit I sell as there are differences between units Hi Dave, yes was running fine before. Battery is a Motobatt about 5 yrs old, has been on and off trickle charger over winter - swapped charge between 2 bikes. Will rig up other battery to it and see if that cures it. |
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Post by Dieseldog on Apr 18, 2020 10:20:53 GMT 1
A good battery should be 13.2v Regulator would be my first suspect Meter the resistance on all 3 charge coils to check they are the same It is unlikely more than 1 charge coil would fail Steve Hi Steve, typo erro from me running voltage was 13.2 (not 13.7 as I said before). Regulator apppears to be fine, resistance on coils with tiny differeces between them, also forward & reverse bias virtually the same readings. |
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Post by Dieseldog on Apr 18, 2020 10:39:55 GMT 1
In a "perfect" scenario a lead acid battery will be 13.2v with no load on it The battery is made out of 6 cells which are 2.2v each. These are connected in series so adds to 13.2v First year apprentiship stuff 😁 In real life it will be around 12.8v or so on in use Charging voltage on a ypvs is 14v @ 5000 rpm to give a normal charge rate of 0.5a Steve Hi Steve, defininatley not geting 14v, only saw 13.7v - (which is what I mistakenly quoted at tickover in the original post) Will swap out battery first, then a spare stator if battery doesn't cure it. |
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Post by earthman on Apr 18, 2020 11:25:10 GMT 1
In a "perfect" scenario a lead acid battery will be 13.2v with no load on it The battery is made out of 6 cells which are 2.2v each. These are connected in series so adds to 13.2v First year apprentiship stuff 😁 In real life it will be around 12.8v or so on in use Charging voltage on a ypvs is 14v @ 5000 rpm to give a normal charge rate of 0.5a Steve Hi Steve, defininatley not geting 14v, only saw 13.7v - (which is what I mistakenly quoted at tickover in the original post) Will swap out battery first, then a spare stator if battery doesn't cure it. Did you have the headlight on whilst the engine were ticking over? I fitted a cheap digital voltmeter to my LC, I've noticed that it displays 13. something whilst riding with the lights on, 14. something when the lights are off,...it also briefly shows 0.00v for a few seconds occasionally so it could well be faulty?? Other than that, my guess is that it's just too sensitive for an old design of charging system?? Any ideas chaps, is 13. something with the lights on an LC normal? |
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Post by midlifecrisisrd on Apr 18, 2020 11:55:56 GMT 1
You will get a volt drop when the system is loaded up
Its quite an old design. The voltage regulator is fixed so voltage will change hence the manual saying 14v @ 5k rpm with no load
As long as the voltage stays above the battery voltage with the engine off then I'd assume the system is working as it is coping with the load and still charging the battery as the higher voltage will allow current flow into it
Its only if the voltage drops below the battery the current will flow out of the battery and discharge it.
Power will always flow from the higher to the lower as it usually flows from 12v positive to 0v negative
This would be the same as from 13. something to 12. something. Just the current flow is lower
From memory it's why it is referred to as the potential difference
12v and 0v gives a PD of 12v
13v to 12v give 1v which in a batteries case would be the charge voltage
Apologies if I'm preaching to the converted but someone may be interested in my vague memory ramblings 😆
Steve
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Post by midlifecrisisrd on Apr 18, 2020 11:57:56 GMT 1
You may also be right on the sensitivity
A 40 year old electrics with a high discharge ignition system is bound to be a bit "rough"
Steve
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Post by Dieseldog on Apr 18, 2020 14:15:20 GMT 1
You can measure the AC voltage on each pair of the three stator white wires. I think it should be around 40V to 60V A/C. Measure each pair at the 2,000rpm mark and see if they are all roughly the same. So if you label the wires A,B,C then you measure between A and B, A and C, then B & C. Looks like stator issue, 2 x 50ish volts & 1 x 30ish volts. But all 3 drop to about 30 when revs build. It's only about 5 yrs old as well from Electrex world 🤔 |
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Post by midlifecrisisrd on Apr 18, 2020 16:25:24 GMT 1
Bugger🤔
Sounds like the insulation is breaking down under load
Steve
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Post by scooter on Apr 29, 2020 20:13:05 GMT 1
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