Strange One (is it a 250 or a 350LC)

[muttsnuts]

Got a 350LC, or is it a 250LC?, that is the conumdrum

So here goes, the owner believes its a 250LC, the reason being its got a 247cc on the V5 and all the old MoT certs say the same, but the frame and engine numbers (matching) start 4L0, upon checking, sure enough, the frame and engine numbers are 4L0 and match the log book, plus they are untampered with, in fact the bike has been laid up since 1996, with the current owner having it since 1983, it only has 4 registered keepers as well

So, I go over the bike and this is what I find;

1. Frame and engine match - 4L0
2. Barrels and head - 250 items
3. Front wheel - single disk and caliper
4. 250LC rear wheel
5. 350LC headlight brackets
6. 350LC oil pump
7. Single horn fitted (on Yokes, not headlight bracket)
8. 250LC carbs
9. The frame is in original paint and the numbers are crystal clear
10. The engine numbers are crystal clear with no tampering
11. Its got an awful paint scheme on it, but the tank, panels etc are all original and the tank is mint inside
12. The seat is original and the tang is near perfect
13. Has a mint set of original small can microns fitted
14. Its a very early (August 1980) none tie bar model with really low VIN number
15. All frame lugs etc are intact (centre stand etc) and no signs of it being raced, so not an ex racing bike for sure, besides the old MoT's back this up, its only done just over 8700 miles as well from new according to the MoT's !

To my mind, it can only have been made into a 250 by one of 2 ways

1. The shop converted it to a 250 as somebody wanted a 250 due to learner laws, but the shop only had 350's at the time, so converted it to a 250, but then why change the rear wheel etc
2. Yamaha screwed up somehow and built it as a 250 and it got registered accordingly in 1980, without anybody realising the frame numbers etc where for a 350

It does not add up in my mind that an individual would have swapped the various parts mentioned above as some of it doesn't make sense, although that is a possibility, I've looked on the DVLA website to see about getting the vehicle history, but I can't finds it, all I can find is that it was last on the road in 1996, which tallies with what I've been told

Of course the bike is screaming out to be restored back to a 350 as its a UK matching numbers bike, biut then it comes down to value etc

Right now I am just puzzled as to how it ended up like this as the current owner says that's exactly how he bought it, so would it really have been changed in the first few years of its life to a 250 from a 350, I see going the other way, but not this way !

Thoughts/any insights welcome!

[shaunthe2nd]

Assembled in a rush in Japan on last afternoon before the start of the Golden week holidays in 1980!

[midlifecrisisrd]

There has been plenty of vin disasters over the years so possible

Only thing making me doubt that is the headlight and ears.

Does the lh fork leg look like it has ever had a caliper bolted to it.

Can you apply to the DVLA for a history report? Would it show an engine capacity change

Not too far a stretch of the imagination that it was a bitsa from the factory

Also when you say early number, how early?

Is it preproduction, was it before the 350 was launched.

Steve

[midlifecrisisrd]

Just re read

Think the 350 pump gives it away as being converted

You never know what some people were thinking back in the 80's

Steve

[muttsnuts]

yeah, its an odd one, the engine/frame number is 35xx so early, was registered 8th Aug 1980, so one of the first

Its the headlight ears and oil pump that has me puzzled, nobody would swap those to 250 items, so I am thinking the engine or at least the bottom end was always 350, but then who would go to the trouble to change the rear wheel and remove the extra caliper and disk if it was a 350 being converted to a 250 - you see my point, why take the trouble to remove/swap them, you'd just leave them surely, also, why no twin horn bracket or horns, again, why would you go to the trouble !

its a little puzzler that's for sure

[muttsnuts]

I want to apply to DVLA for the vehicle history but can't find out how to do it, all I find now is stuff about who can and can't request info and a private individual isn't one of them !

[LC_BOTT]

Could it have been 'production raced' from the showromm in the 250 class, and later registered as a 250? Certainly sounds a strange combination.

[muttsnuts]

yeah, but it was first registered on 8th August 1980 and there ano siogns of it being raced, or even parts been taken off it as such, even the rear subframe is still on the rust the bolts and frame look untampered with, its missing the indicators etc, so possible, but everything is too straight if I am being honest, lets face it, how may proddy racers didn't fall off !

[muttsnuts]

either way, it needs restoring back to its former glory

[sbscnor]

I have all the DVLA history for my bikes, you need to apply to the DVLA (on line I think) and be the current registered keeper and give a valid reason (in there eyes) for wanting the information. You will then get copies of ALL the documents they still hold this may not be all of it, I got a copy of the registration number request submitted by the dealer for one bike but not one of the others.

It does make interesting reading though, it does sound a bit strange to convert a 350 to 250 ??

[oldelsieboy]

www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/644983/v888-request-by-an-individual-for-information-about-a-vehicle.pdf

As Colin stated only the registered keeper can apply.

[reedpete]

The logical reason is due to proddy racing but I agree that there being no signs of it are a lit5ke strange .

The reason I say logical is that I did just that to mine. Was proddy racing...or atleast following the other arround...in 1982/3 as a 350 The the YPVS got introduced and the 4L0 was instantly not the tool to have. However as there was no 250 YPVS , then it was best to switch class. So basically you had to meet 250 spec. Top end, carbs and rear wheel, single disc.

many didn’t take off the rear subframe then either, so that doesn’t surprise me.

You say , no sign of racing....you mean no sign of crashing 😀, How about the oil drain bolt ? Been drilled for lock wire?

[arrow]

This is a strange one for sure Dave. I think there were a few c**k up's from the factory.
Just some background info for you; a few years ago I did a pump for a guy on here. Usual logistical questions. Guy had a 350 motor and red paint on the pump. Told him it was a 250 pump and I would sort it. Pump arrived and was a 350 pump with FACTORY ORIGINAL red paint!! Pump had never been split. No damage to gear inside, so worm was 350 too. Pump was off said running bike. Go figure?

Due to this and one or two other stories I never take anything as 100% fact, unless its actually in front of me.

[shaunthe2nd]

If it was raced on pre-mix, then no need to change the oil pump.

[arrow]

Oct 26, 2017 16:33:57 GMT 1 shaunthe2nd said:

If it was raced on pre-mix, then no need to change the oil pump.

That would also contribute to the statement; "tank mint inside".

[muttsnuts]

ok, done some more digging, I am now intrigued

The front master is 1/2, the front wheel has the correct blanking plate, the engine does not look like its been apart ever, the oil pump has yellow paint on, the horn wiring is 250, the rear shock is marked 4L0 00, all these point to the fact its a very early 350LC, so much so that the very first mods for them came out from around engine number 0004600.... this engine/frame is 00037** so all of that above tallies with that so far

now, here is an interesting fact, I am being told some of the very first 350 bikes out of Japan came with..........

1. Single front disk
2. 1/2 master cylinder
3. 250 rear wheel
4. Single horn

So basically a 250 rolling chassis etc, but with a 350 top end on it, so this could very well be a c**k up at the factory, or allocated as a 350, but then shipped as a 250 due to supply chain issues they had in the early days for 350 parts.

From what I understand there was problems getting the 350's delivered and the very first ones only hit the UK in May/June 1980, so its very easy to see this being one of the first batch, the frame number etc suggests that

I'll need to see what else I can find out......... you live and learn !

[muttsnuts]

Think I need Xavier and Moist (Andy) on the case, they will sort it for sure

[reedpete]

Who is it currently registered to? Yours on the trader bit if the v5 or customer ?
The DVLA first registration records will be the key.

[sparx]

I reckon it was converted so somebody could ride it on L plates back in the day

[rigga]

If its a Yamaha c**k up from new, does that uniqueness make it desirable as it is, and shouldnt be changed?

Just a thought

[muttsnuts]

no idea, think I'll strip and break it for parts, what you think..............












only kidding guys !!

[wallcraft]

Oct 26, 2017 19:40:16 GMT 1 sparx said:

I reckon it was converted so somebody could ride it on L plates back in the day

Yep seems more like it.

[LC_BOTT]

I would find it hard to accept, that someone would happily ride away into the sunset on a brand new 350, that looked just like a 250?? after paying some hard earned £££'s in 1980.

[reedpete]

Oct 26, 2017 20:29:05 GMT 1 wallcraft said:

Oct 26, 2017 19:40:16 GMT 1 sparx said:

I reckon it was converted so somebody could ride it on L plates back in the day

Yep seems more like it.

I agree and think that’s also a plausible explanation. Maybe never passed his test !

[sparx]

Oct 26, 2017 21:48:01 GMT 1 reedpete said:

Oct 26, 2017 20:29:05 GMT 1 wallcraft said:

Yep seems more like it.

I agree and think that’s also a plausible explanation. Maybe never passed his test !

What test?
No one told me you had to pass a test

[JonW]

I reckon 'stolen recovered' and as it was quite new at the time they did it up with spares from a crashed bike.

[plumma]

JonW, that was my thoughts exactly.

[wwwRD350LCnet]

Hello muttsnuts,

i'm here now !

From my point of view, it's clearly a 350 downgraded to a 250 (for a L plate most probably).

I contacted a friend of mine who has a huge knowledge (more than me on models sold in France) and have bought / sold more than 100 RD350LC/YPVS and he own a RD350LC 4L0-00010x for 30 years  !

So he had never seen any OEM RD350LC with 250 rear wheel, single horn or single front disk brake.

So It confirms my point: it's a 4L0 350.

Bye

Xavier

[lrcarl]

Early ringer?if only 350 parts are frame,shock and bottom end.hope not
Carl

[muttsnuts]

no, not a ringer, go full docs and all good, looks like a down graded 350 to 250, surprising amount of trouble gone to mind to do that, no matter, it will be rebuilt to a 350 in all its glory I am sure, not by me though I doubt, it could be sold subject to a viewing next week