|
|
Post by earthman on Oct 1, 2017 19:08:23 GMT 1
Would I be right in saying that the riding position on an LC is more upright compared to the YPVS models that followed? For those of you who have rode both, any comments on how you found the knee/foot peg angles? I am thinking of bikes with the original bars and pegs of course, I also understand that we all have different body shapes.    |
|
|
|
Post by Yogi on Oct 1, 2017 19:38:03 GMT 1
The lc2 is the only pv with bars the same as an lc 
Matt |
|
|
|
Post by earthman on Oct 1, 2017 19:53:52 GMT 1
The lc2 is the only pv with bars the same as an lc
MattThanks for pointing out the bars, I certainly never knew that. It also looks like the seat/tank alignment is different to the LC,......this my line of thinking, that must affect the overall body/seated position? |
|
|
|
Post by Yogi on Oct 1, 2017 19:57:50 GMT 1
The lc2 is a similar style riding position but with more power and slightly better brakes and suspension
Matt
|
|
|
|
Post by earthman on Oct 27, 2017 11:34:30 GMT 1
Thinking about these two models again, what's the general consensus on why one would choose to buy one over the other today? Are the Brazilian made ones really that bad quality wise? With the smoother power delivery and full fairing, would this be a better choice bike wise to use on the road today?
I'm biased towards the LC because they were part of my youth, it would seem that this is the case for many other members too?
|
|
coose
Drag-strip hero
Posts: 270 
|
Post by coose on Oct 27, 2017 11:57:11 GMT 1
I had both in my youth (LCs and F/N2, but not an LC2), where the rose-tinted specs shouted LC but the bank balance said F2! To get an LC in a similar condition to my F2 (the last of the Jap-built bikes, matching numbers, UK bike, a handful of previous owners) would have been another £2-3k which I just couldn't stretch to, but being a kid in the mid to late 80s means that I do have great memories of both. The Brazilian models do command quite a bit less than the Jap models, where there were restrictions and minor build quality issues but I think they're easily resolved. Like my F2 compared to a Marlboro LC with period mods, I'd much rather have my F2 than nothing as it really is excellent, and I'd again rather have had a Brazilian R than nothing if I couldn't have stretched to my F2. |
|
|
|
Post by earthman on Oct 27, 2017 12:04:04 GMT 1
I had both in my youth (LCs and F/N2, but not an LC2), where the rose-tinted specs shouted LC but the bank balance said F2! To get an LC in a similar condition to my F2 (the last of the Jap-built bikes, matching numbers, UK bike, a handful of previous owners) would have been another £2-3k which I just couldn't stretch to, but being a kid in the mid to late 80s means that I do have great memories of both. The Brazilian models do command quite a bit less than the Jap models, where there were restrictions and minor build quality issues but I think they're easily resolved. Like my F2 compared to a Marlboro LC with period mods, I'd much rather have my F2 than nothing as it really is excellent, and I'd again rather have had a Brazilian R than nothing if I couldn't have stretched to my F2. Thanks for your comments, can you expand a bit on the issues and how they are easily solved?? |
|
|
|
Post by JonW on Oct 27, 2017 12:30:03 GMT 1
Read some of the other threads about the R model, very few of us had any issues with them back in the day... search will educate you, even if it wont set you free...!
|
|
|
|
Post by midlifecrisisrd on Oct 27, 2017 13:28:24 GMT 1
I bought an R for my first hybrid build
It had 64000 miles on it from it's one owner who used it to commute on
Paint on the tank looked a bit poorer quality but the rest was just the same as any ypvs
Think it was journalist spouting crap after they rode the restricted ones
Don't think any UK ones were restricted, well certainly none that are still about.
A washer and main jet would be a no brainer for a few horses
Steve
|
|
|
|
Post by Oliver31 on Oct 27, 2017 17:32:12 GMT 1
I have what is the basis of a Brazilian model albeit has been built from the ground up with 31k carbs and a mild Stan Stephens tune. It also has had everything done to it including paint job upgraded brakes swinging arm etc. I think all of the build qualities are good. It depends if you wish to have a standard bike or a hybrid.
|
|
|
|
Post by jon on Oct 27, 2017 18:10:13 GMT 1
I bought an R for my first hybrid build It had 64000 miles on it from it's one owner who used it to commute on Paint on the tank looked a bit poorer quality but the rest was just the same as any ypvs Think it was journalist spouting crap after they rode the restricted ones Don't think any UK ones were restricted, well certainly none that are still about. A washer and main jet would be a no brainer for a few horses Steve Steve, I agree with the journalist bit giving the Brazilian models a bad name. I also find it laughable that people put so much kudos on the country origin of a 30+ year old bike, as I bet a pound to a penny people would have sourced replacement bits that fitted from either bike. I bet loads of so called UK bike have a myriad of Brazilian parts fitted as they broke and were replaced. Exactly the same as the scooter scene, "it's an Italian Lambretta" - Yeah of course it was before you (and many other previous owners) bolted replacement indian Lambretta spares on it . I think that at the time of the Brazilian model, there were the likes of RS's, RGV's and KR1S's to compare them too. They simply were from a bygone era and so got a bad name where the Japanese YPVS at the time (earlier) had the upper hand so got favourable journalist comments. Strange how history sets the future? Anyway I have had both, and can honestly say the only difference in quality I have seen is the paint finish on some bits like brake calipers for instance. Get over the stigma, and you could save a few bob. Jon |
|
|
|
Post by earthman on Oct 27, 2017 19:30:20 GMT 1
I bought an R for my first hybrid build It had 64000 miles on it from it's one owner who used it to commute on Paint on the tank looked a bit poorer quality but the rest was just the same as any ypvs Think it was journalist spouting crap after they rode the restricted ones Don't think any UK ones were restricted, well certainly none that are still about. A washer and main jet would be a no brainer for a few horses Steve Steve, I agree with the journalist bit giving the Brazilian models a bad name. I also find it laughable that people put so much kudos on the country origin of a 30+ year old bike, as I bet a pound to a penny people would have sourced replacement bits that fitted from either bike. I bet loads of so called UK bike have a myriad of Brazilian parts fitted as they broke and were replaced. Exactly the same as the scooter scene, "it's an Italian Lambretta" - Yeah of course it was before you (and many other previous owners) bolted replacement indian Lambretta spares on it . I think that at the time of the Brazilian model, there were the likes of RS's, RGV's and KR1S's to compare them too. They simply were from a bygone era and so got a bad name where the Japanese YPVS at the time (earlier) had the upper hand so got favourable journalist comments. Strange how history sets the future? Anyway I have had both, and can honestly say the only difference in quality I have seen is the paint finish on some bits like brake calipers for instance. Get over the stigma, and you could save a few bob. Jon Putting the money aspect totally aside, what are like to ride and reliability wise? I'm guessing that the power band kick at around 5000 revs isn't there on these, it's more of a gradual increase in power throughout the rev range? Are they easier to ride in say slower moving traffic etc? I'm just thinking how the roads in general have changed compared to 30+ years ago. These engines produced more bhp than the older LC from new, is that still noticeable whilst using them on the road today? |
|
|
|
Post by jon on Oct 27, 2017 19:38:22 GMT 1
To be honest, you won't notice any difference from a Brazilian YPVS to say an F2.
Earlier Japanese YPVS such as an LCII will feel more like an LC with a YPVS engine due to the ride position.
Performance and reliability wise there is no difference between an F2 and an R.
LC's (even 350's) don't suit modern driving IMO as much as YPVS's. Although there is not much difference, I can noticed it.
Jon
|
|
|
|
Post by earthman on Oct 27, 2017 19:53:13 GMT 1
To be honest, you won't notice any difference from a Brazilian YPVS to say an F2. Earlier Japanese YPVS such as an LCII will feel more like an LC with a YPVS engine due to the ride position. Performance and reliability wise there is no difference between an F2 and an R. LC's (even 350's) don't suit modern driving IMO as much as YPVS's. Although there is not much difference, I can noticed it. Jon I'm only trying to decided between the LC and twin headlight, full fairing YPVS to be honest, the other models don't appeal to me. Like I've said, the 350 LC was part of my youth, I'd really like one of those but if price and rarity puts one out of my reach, I'm tempted by the YPVS. After many years of riding smooth powered four strokes with full fairings & screens, I do wonder if the YPVS would actually be a better bike for me to ride/use on our roads today. I just don't know, admittedly I doubt that I'd go that far on either bike at the end of the day. I really don't know. |
|
|
|
Post by steve h on Oct 27, 2017 20:11:08 GMT 1
I bought an R for my first hybrid build It had 64000 miles on it from it's one owner who used it to commute on Paint on the tank looked a bit poorer quality but the rest was just the same as any ypvs Think it was journalist spouting crap after they rode the restricted ones Don't think any UK ones were restricted, well certainly none that are still about. A washer and main jet would be a no brainer for a few horses Steve Yeah, don't take too much of journos........some waffle complete shite. |
|
|
|
Post by allspeeds on Oct 27, 2017 20:42:07 GMT 1
I reckon you will deffo get more for your money if you buy a YPVS of any type but prices seem to be rising so grab one while they are still affordable,the earlier ones like the Lc2 seem to be starting to go the way LC prices went.
|
|
|
|
Post by earthman on Oct 27, 2017 21:46:13 GMT 1
I reckon you will deffo get more for your money if you buy a YPVS of any type but prices seem to be rising so grab one while they are still affordable,the earlier ones like the Lc2 seem to be starting to go the way LC prices went. Thanks, you are probably right there. |
|
|
|
Post by JonW on Oct 27, 2017 22:13:36 GMT 1
Think it was journalist spouting crap after they rode the restricted ones Yeah, don't take too much of journos........some waffle complete shite. Ahem, lol... But seriously, and Ive said it before, hence my comment to the OP to search but the mags rated the quality of the R in the 1990s against the competition and it came up short, but an F2 would have as well; things had moved on. Sadly in the modern era PB, Phil West in his book and others just used the original archive material to create new works quickly, that meant they took what they read as fact and its become gospel. Its sad, the R was a fine bike. sure the twin lights were not to everyones tastes, and I often think they make the R look 'fat' in pics, but just like the 500 they look much better in real life. And this > Don't think any UK ones were restricted, well certainly none that are still about. They were in the crate, but most (all I would think) dealers removed those restrictions during PDI. I agree, no restricted ones will still be around now. I owned an R from 1995 to 2001, it went to, and round, the 'ring and lots of other places. It was a tidy bike when sold and nothing fell off, faded or broke other than a cracked belly pan (replaced under warranty as happened during shipping or in factory etc) and the PVs gummed up from motorway riding with shitty oil. |
|
|
|
Post by midlifecrisisrd on Oct 27, 2017 23:25:33 GMT 1
Wouldn't be worried about performance of an r, just get some pipes on it
I had my r hybrid and lc2 hybrid at the same time
Lc2 had standard ignition, allspeed and had a bit of porting
The r had a fixed feel running lc2 curve and an early set of tsa pipes
The lc2's power came in 1k earlier at 6k but was all over by 9k
The R was drivable low down but the big power came in at 7k and revved to 11k if you let it and trounced the lc2
Steve
|
|
|
|
Post by earthman on Oct 28, 2017 8:03:19 GMT 1
Wouldn't be worried about performance of an r, just get some pipes on it I had my r hybrid and lc2 hybrid at the same time Lc2 had standard ignition, allspeed and had a bit of porting The r had a fixed feel running lc2 curve and an early set of tsa pipes The lc2's power came in 1k earlier at 6k but was all over by 9k The R was drivable low down but the big power came in at 7k and revved to 11k if you let it and trounced the lc2 Steve I'm probably in the minority when it comes to pipes but I'd prefer standard ones just because of the noise. Back in the day most of my mates fitted Microns of some sort, just too loud for me. I did buy an LC with Allspeeds on though, the noise level seemed acceptable to me at the time. |
|
|
|
Post by alistair64 on Oct 28, 2017 21:35:56 GMT 1
Sorry to have to say but I never liked the 'R' one bit. Not even mentioning the fact it was Brazilian made, it seemed even more removed from the original LC than ever before - with its horrid black plastic infilled fairing and fairing-mounted choke, twin headlights, etc. - just a nasty incarnation IMO and worthy of being way less than a LC or YPVS in the pecking order. Shouted out desperation by Yamaha to keep the YPVS model going at any cost - wouldn't touch one with a barge pole  |
|
|
|
Post by earthman on Oct 28, 2017 22:42:16 GMT 1
Sorry to have to say but I never liked the 'R' one bit. Not even mentioning the fact it was Brazilian made, it seemed even more removed from the original LC than ever before - with its horrid black plastic infilled fairing and fairing-mounted choke, twin headlights, etc. - just a nasty incarnation IMO and worthy of being way less than a LC or YPVS in the pecking order. Shouted out desperation by Yamaha to keep the YPVS model going at any cost - wouldn't touch one with a barge pole No offence taken, the world would be a bland place if we all had exactly the same taste. The 350 LC were my first 'powerful' bike basically, I guess that's one reason why it's close to my heart, shortly afterwards bikes with full fairings, twin headlights etc seem to be the norm, I jumped straight to 4 stroke sports bikes then, if I hadn't then I guess an 'R' model would have been a natural progression for me. |
|
|
|
Post by copper99 on Oct 30, 2017 21:19:28 GMT 1
Sorry to have to say but I never liked the 'R' one bit. Not even mentioning the fact it was Brazilian made, it seemed even more removed from the original LC than ever before - with its horrid black plastic infilled fairing and fairing-mounted choke, twin headlights, etc. - just a nasty incarnation IMO and worthy of being way less than a LC or YPVS in the pecking order. Shouted out desperation by Yamaha to keep the YPVS model going at any cost - wouldn't touch one with a barge pole While I would touch one with, maybe, an oar rather than a barge pole, I do agree, they did look utterly shite as standard, from every angle, seeing one recently at Chris Halls in Doncaster still left me feeling that way, when the R came out, it stuck out like a sore thumb from everything else around it. That said, one for the right money as a starting point and maybe for a hybrid, makes a lot of sense. |
|
|
|
Post by alistair64 on Oct 31, 2017 22:49:38 GMT 1
Thanks for understanding, guys. This is the first time I have revisited the thread after my comment above and must admit I was expecting some abuse from 'R' owners.
I didn't mean it to be offensive and it is a cheaper way of owning a Powervalve, but I just wish Yamaha had called it a day after the F2/N2.
It just seemed wrong at the time and still does today, even though I admit there probably aren't as many differences with the model as it might look on the outside.
|
|
|
|
Post by JonW on Oct 31, 2017 23:31:20 GMT 1
Never a problem to say you dont like something when you give reasoning. I read your post and thought 'I know what youre saying about the styling'. It's a funny thing really that they did the whole top fairing thing the way they did. I guess it was just styled like the FZR600 of the time to 'modernise' the "old F2", but it had the effect of making the front end look large and heavy in pics, in real life its not as bad of course. The front end of the R is its real criticism I guess but Ive said it before but I always think the 500 looks larger and fatter than a 350 in pics, in real life you remember how the 500 uses the same fairing as the 350 and it is in fact much less 'fat and wide' than you thought. Its a trick of the eye. The infill/choke panels were a thing of the time, done to cover the mechanicals like other bikes of the era, ie. the jelly mould CBR600 came out soon after etc. It also was there to feel more 'quality' tho it wasnt the best way to do that really, we all know how floppy the birdcage can be on an F2, adding more lights and plastic didnt help so while the panel fit while from the factory it was ok, i bet they looked terrible after a crash and would take a lot of massaging to get back into shape. I never dropped mine, so it looked ok while i owned it. Thankfully! My feeling wasnt that Yamaha were trying to keep the 'LC going' as such, I think Yam UK found a product in the Yamaha range that was still mostly a model that people in the UK loved (and were probably asking for) so they thought, lets bring a few in and see if we sell em. By 95 they had obviously over ordered and had a warehouse full and discounts were in full flow. What should be bourne in mind is that an R wasnt expensive when new, about 3600-3800 was RRP, that was a cheap deal for sure on a bike at the time. Other mfrs also had their own long in the tooth models eg. the gpz305 round the same money - and we'd all rather have an R over that dog, surely!  Tho it should be said that the bandit was much the same money when it came out too - game over for the R at RRP then* lol. I think it was really that Yamaha knew that in sales that some markets can take old models as they still love em, eg. the french and japanese took the old mini for years, long after most other markets had discontinued it. [*] - Ive said it before but no one paid RRP for an R in 95. I paid just 2750 for mine with datatag and discounted clothing allowance, it was a lot of brand new bike for minimal money. Would I have loved it more if it was an f2....? maybe. But I still loved lots of things about it, not least the sound of the ypvs motor burbling away when you rode it. A de restricted one (which they all were from dealers) went much better than the mags said and mine would wheelie everywhere with little provocation. Nothing fell off, not even any wheel paint... and it handled just like an F2 really. Question is: Would I buy one today? well I'd have my old one back... M68GAM where are you? but one to fully restore from a heap of rusty parts, er, no thanks lol. Tho it is the model im missing in my collection now (along with the N models...) but in Aus I only know of 2 Rs as they were never sold here, those were personal imports from the UK and neither owner is selling. If one of those did sell his to me (he knows I liked seeing it when i was at his house) Id restore it as an R of course. It may not be the most desirable of the RD range, but its still an RD. |
|
|
|
Post by alistair64 on Nov 3, 2017 20:54:21 GMT 1
You make good points there, Jon and I would agree with what you say. Must admit I didn't realise you could pick one up quite as cheaply as you say. Just one last criticism of it, however, which I forgot to mention...didn't one of the colours available have pink in it? I think it was the white one? I don't care how trendy pink was at the time (e.g. FZR's, GSXR's also)...a pink LC?? FFS  |
|
|
|
Post by JonW on Nov 3, 2017 22:00:51 GMT 1
Haha, yes... I dunno who bought that colour tho... not me thats for sure.  |
|
|
|
Post by alistair64 on Nov 4, 2017 12:04:54 GMT 1
Actually not as pink as I remember and the colour scheme doesn't look too bad at all (given that it is the nineties), so I stand corrected on that one. Just seen this one while looking at the colours. Probably not my first choice for a touring bike....  |
|
|
|
Post by JonW on Nov 4, 2017 12:46:57 GMT 1
i also remembered it as more pink.
My ex rode mine on a 2500mile weekend round trip to the ring on summer, pretty comfy actually.
|
|
|
|
Post by earthman on Nov 4, 2017 23:27:20 GMT 1
Actually not as pink as I remember and the colour scheme doesn't look too bad at all (given that it is the nineties), so I stand corrected on that one. Just seen this one while looking at the colours. Probably not my first choice for a touring bike.... Certainly makes the bike more practical but ruins the overall look of the bike. |
|
Tho it should be said that the bandit was much the same money when it came out too - game over for the R at RRP then* lol. I think it was really that Yamaha knew that in sales that some markets can take old models as they still love em, eg. the french and japanese took the old mini for years, long after most other markets had discontinued it.