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Post by paulsx on Feb 22, 2017 10:40:13 GMT 1
I might just send the tank off to get done professionally. The brand new panels should be easy enough to get a decent finish on myself. Where are you based? if the tanks in reasonable condition and you sand it I will apply the primer for you for just the cost of the paint providing your not after a pro job.
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Post by icarus001 on Feb 22, 2017 16:35:14 GMT 1
Where are you based? if the tanks in reasonable condition and you sand it I will apply the primer for you for just the cost of the paint providing your not after a pro job. That's a kind offer, thanks. I'm based up in Lancaster, but I'm away loads with work, so I'm never really sure when I'm home, I'll just have to grab moments in the garage to get it done when I can, probably won't be until summer.
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Post by icarus001 on Feb 22, 2017 17:03:20 GMT 1
I might just send the tank off to get done professionally. The brand new panels should be easy enough to get a decent finish on myself. Good option I picked up a set of newly painted lc2 bodywork last year but missing the tank and had intended doing the base,candy and decals before getting local guy to clear coat it. Reckoned it would cost me 140 and a bit of time Spoke to mark yesterday and he said if I send him the tank and one panel he will match the tank to it for £200. No brainer really. I've also had my bikes done in the straight white off the mixing station (urki 900) by the local guy but then paid a bike painter to do the tank in 2 pack the same colour Steve I don't know Mark, but I do have a couple of proper jobs that want doing and he seems the man to go to. The paint job on the N1 that I bought was apparently done by a professional (not Mark), but I'm assuming he was suffering from temporary blindness because it's dreadful, it has so much filler in the tank I'd better get checked out for asbestosis. He must have shaped it with a yard shovel, it's uneven and bubbling. The filler has fallen out of the side panels as well and they're cracked. So that's a full N1 paint job and a TDR tank - or I'm wondering whether to give him the lot from both bikes and just have it right from day one. Decisions, decisions.... The only thing is, once I have a bike sprayed professionally I get really precious over it and I'm terrified of marking it, so I was quite happy riding my TDR because I wouldn't cry if it got a mark on it, same with the N1, whereas I'm always crapping it with my LC because it's got a top of the line Dream Machine job done on it.
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Post by bogbrush on Feb 22, 2017 17:32:29 GMT 1
I spray all my bikes myself and don't see any reason why you cant get a good finish. Crazing can also be caused by the type of primer the Japanese use that seems to react with everything. For older steel tanks I always get them sand blasted as I have seen lots of good paint jobs that have rust spots appear after a few months. When it comes to clear coating over decals the first couple of coats needs to be very light and you need to leave at least 20mins between coats overwise the decal can curl or run. I tend to do put on 2 or 3 light coats then leave it till the next night and apply a few heavier coats. Rattle cans are ok but you are limited to how much paint you can put on. With the base colour thats not too bad but with the clear coat you can end up having to put on 10 or more coats to get enough paint on. Also remember most rattle can clear coats aren't petrol resistant either Yep, take note. I've seen some really good rattle can jobs completely ruined by a minor dribble of petrol. If possible get a pro painter to do the clear coat for you.
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Post by terracelc on Feb 22, 2017 19:33:38 GMT 1
Just to add a little about painting brand new plastic panels. The prep on these is much more time consuming then previously unpainted panels!!!! They must be scotch brighted with white or grey or the paint will not stick for very long . Have been painting for years and this is where most DIY ers get it wrong and then i get to fix it up later. Also on fresh plastic don`t use wax and grease remover just soap and water or glycol based cleaners such as cromax V-3921s. A very light spray of adhesion promoter before the the primer also can give a bit of insurance to the longevity of the job. Hope this helps Cheers Rob
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Post by JonW on Feb 23, 2017 1:01:08 GMT 1
Interesting... Ive always struggled with the OEM primer/paint reacting with the new paint, stuff is a bloody nightmare and seems to still occasionally rear its ugly head even if youve fully removed the old primer as its leached into the plastic. People talk about 'sealer', anyone know if you can buy that in a can at all? Ive never seen it...
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Post by terracelc on Feb 23, 2017 2:18:02 GMT 1
Yes Jon you sure can and should use a sealer before you top coat and clear. The sealer is what keeps the old paint from reacting with the new. Painters usually (but not always)use a sealer that is compatible with the base coat. The process is sand the old paint do the bodywork ( bondo ect.) apply a primer surfacer and guide coat and sand out perfections (deal with pin holes at this point with glazing pudy)apply more surfacer to the areas that had the pudy work sand those spots then apply sealer top coat and clear coat. Viola your done simples !!! maybe not so simples? With that said if the old paint is oxidised or has been blistering you must strip to bare metal or its base material or it will look good for a short time and start to oxidise or blister again. There is as much opinion about this as there are people who do it. But this has worked for me in the industry for the past twenty years and hope that it has been of some help Rob
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Post by JonW on Feb 23, 2017 2:31:08 GMT 1
Cheers Rob, all good stuff. Whats interesting is that not one of the places round here that sells cans has anything called 'sealer', lots of spray puttys and primers, but nothing that says 'sealer', seems like the paint mafrs are missing a trick :/
I assume the sealer would also stop the paint slumping into the filler and giving a ghosted finish. damn i wish i had some lol
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Post by icarus001 on Feb 23, 2017 2:55:49 GMT 1
I had that issue years ago. I had an old race bike fairing that I sanded back, then used a rattle can 'sealer' that was supposed to seal between different types of paints, but it didn't work and the new paint bubbled after a while.
I suppose that's why good painters are so much in demand, you can end up throwing good money after bad trying to get your own results, and in the end most people just give it to a professional.
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Post by terracelc on Feb 23, 2017 5:45:28 GMT 1
Yes Jon exactly what it does, although it is not a substitute for the final sanding of 400 grit or finer , prior to applying sealer.The brand of paint be it PPG, Dupont , Sherwin Williams or whatever will have a technical datasheet that will tell you what your final grit will need to be ,flash time between coats whether to use light coats or wet coats(heavy)and all the mixing if you are using spray equipment, Just punch in the type of paint into good old google and there will be a PDF within the first page . Next time you go to get a rattle can made get them to make a sealer for you as well and have them write on the can the type of paint so you can check the data at your leisure. If they look at you like you are an idiot turn around and try the next place. Customer service is not a strong point at paint and auto body places hear in Canada either. I will say though doing a good paint job on your own after all the mechanical fetteling of a restoration is the icing on the cake. Hope this helps Rob PS, Icarus clean old paint so that contaminants don`t get sanded into old paint , Sand old paint only if it still looks good and no oxidation( otherwise strip to bare surface ),clean and apply primer surfacer also called sandable primer or high build primer ,sand that and clean, then sealer of same brand compatible with top coat then top coat then clear coat. Cant stress enough about the cleaning part ,wax and grease remover except on plastic or composite parts without paint. Cheers And also thanks for all the help i have gotten from this forum a real treasure of info and helpful people.
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Post by midlifecrisisrd on Feb 23, 2017 9:53:34 GMT 1
Interesting... Ive always struggled with the OEM primer/paint reacting with the new paint, stuff is a bloody nightmare and seems to still occasionally rear its ugly head even if youve fully removed the old primer as its leached into the plastic. People talk about 'sealer', anyone know if you can buy that in a can at all? Ive never seen it... Hi Jon, Had this a while ago with an lc2 top fairing that the whole lot wrinkled. I bought a rattle can of clostermans paint isolator which does what it says on the tin Had no problems after that. You also get stuff called barcoat but never tried that Steve
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Post by paulsx on Feb 23, 2017 10:43:09 GMT 1
You can get it various places my local paint place does it in rattle cans they are about £15 each. With things like side panels etc I normally remove all the old paint as it nearly always reacts if you have gone through the top coat. I normally scrape off the paint with a blade to avoid the grit from sanding contaminating the surface. De grease it and then lightly abrade it before using a plastic primer/ adhension promoter before a coat of high build primer. Hand flat it off and then apply the top coats.
Used the barcoat stuff before its really good but normally only in 1 l tins to be sprayed from a gun
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