Spannies- De-coke ???

[steven]

Hi,
How long do we all leave our spannies with caustic soda / sodium hydroxide in them to de coke them?

I have read varying reports round the net, a week? two weeks? three weeks???

Should I replenish or change the solution at any point ?

What ratio of sodium hydroxide to use to water?
I read to use 3 lb of caustic soda to 1 gall of water.
I measured how much a short can Allspeed holds and its just under 4 ltrs.
So I added 1kg or 2.2 lb of caustic soda to 4 ltrs of water and did one pipe, then the other, they are both currently soaking.
I came to that recipe as I bought four 500g tubs of drain cleaner from the pound shop, and thats all i had.

I mixed up some and filled two old spannies this afternoon, but not too sure how long to leave them

They are genuine short can Allspeeds, and are "Clyde Build", they are solid, if a bit bashed up, I think they are actualy the spannies off the Bismarck ! as they are solid, so Id like to see if I can save them.

steven.

[spooch63]

That's quite a strong solution you've mixed up there mate, i would have thought a week would be plenty of time, wouldn't replenish it myself, however long you leave it you need to be really careful you don't get any on you when you empty it out, can cause serious burns !!

[steeley]

any body try a recipe that was in the cmm mag.celly thinners and cheap brake fluid.

[steven]

Hi,
No Iv not heard of thinners and brake fluid, but I have heard of Mollases and water, but I think thats for rust?

Serious Burns ? ? ?.... as in ......?

Wee, sleekit, cow'rin, tim'rous beastie,
O, what a panic's in thy breastie!
Thou need na start awa sae hasty,
Wi' bickering brattle!
I wad be laith to rin an' chase thee,
Wi' murd'ring pattle!.......................sorry couldnt help it.... :.)

I tried a wee bit on the slabs, and Id say its a bit tame, but we will see.

Does anyone have any pics of the headers and how they attache with the springs?, as I think mine have been tampered with?, and one spring mount is missing, is it 4 springs?, ie two on each pipe? to one mount on the exhaust?

thanks in advance,
steven.

[steven]

Hi,

Thanks for the replys.
Here are a few pics, as you can see they are quite rough, but I will give it a go.
Does anyone have any pics of an Allspeed cut open?, so I can see where to cut, if I decide to cut them open to bash the mangled bits out.

I had read online that the thing to seal them with is a a potato, when filling them with caustic soda.
I ended up using a rubber glove, and insulating tape, then a second glove over that and tape again, seems to seal perfectly, and no leaks. I sealed both ends of the pipes up that way.

As the pics will show, they say: Genuine Allspeed
BS ?7193/1
350

Im wondering why they say 350 did you get Allspeeds that were made for 250,s as well

I take it there should be packing or wadding in the baffles? Any pics of how the baffles should look when packed?

Thanks again in advance if anyone manages to put some pics up of what a decent set of Allspeeds should look like.
cheers,
steven.

[steeley]

a bit bashed but not beyond repair.the hook on the front down pipe, grind a flat on the edge of a washer and weld it on should out live us.lol

[steven]

Hi,

I drained the caustic soda from my spannies yesterday, and was pleasantly surprised.
It removed loads of carbon from the insides of the pipes, loads more than I was expecting, as the pics will show, I was left with two jobby/turd sized lumps of carbon.
I emptied out both pipes into a bucked, then strained it through a rag, in an attempt to filter out the carbon, and see how much I got out.

I managed to put my fingers down inside the back end of the pipes, and the carbon that is in there is all soft and squdgy.
I had my pressure washer out cleaning another Villiers engine, so I poked it up the spannies and pressure washed what I could, then rinsed them out with water, and more carbon came out.

I am impressed with the results, but feel it will need more time to get more out, so I went to the pound shop and got some more.

I read on line that some folk use Caustic Soda (sodium hydroxide) and some folk use Soda Crystals (sodium carbonate)
During my visit to the pound shop I saw soda crystals, which is half the price of caustic soda, so I got some of that to try for a week.
I have learned something, as I now know the difference between the two after reading a bit online about them.
I think Caustic Soda is more "nasty" than soda crystals, but I will give them a go this week with soda crystals and see how that goes, but Im sure there must still be more carbon left in the pipes.

While buggering about doing all this, as one of the pics will show, what we call a "slater" I think its right name is a "wood louse" decide to apear on the scene, and walking over the top of Sodium Hydroxide didnt seem to bother it in the slightest !....I also had to chase "Ginger" as he looked like he wanted a wee drink of the Sodium Hydroxide too !...... he just went back in the garage and went to sleep on his rug !

I will post the pics of what comes out the pipes with the more "girly" soda crystals in them next weekend.

cheers,
steven.

[juggler]

Nice pictures of a nice messy job Steven! - Got my Caustic Soda from B&Q - I'm doing my Microns this week and I'm going to find a place well out of the of sight of the Mrs. to do them :-) still have memories of the pasting I got from my dad 35 years ago when I did the exhaust on my Garelli Tiger Cross on his brand new patio slabs lol !

[steven]

hi Juggler,
I think caustic soda is the right stuff, I read that soda crystals are a bit less violent, but I,ll give them a week, and probably end up giving them another week with caustic soda.
I wonder how many folk have used soda crystals thinking it was caustic soda?

If an allspeed holds just shy of 4 ltrs, a micron cant be too far off the same volume ?

I used 1 kg of caustic soda to 4 ltrs of water.....I think i will make it stronger next time.
I read online about a bloke that doubled the reccomendations, and was delighted with the results.....so that would be.....2kg of caustic soda to 4ltrs of water.......what recipe are you going for?
I went in every other day and turned the pipes upside down and shook them a bit during the week, I read your soupposed to do that too.
The rubber gloves and insult ing tape did the job fine, saves wastin gid tattys !
steven.

[juggler]

Having bangers and mash for tea so no tattys spare and gloves it is! I have 4 kgs of "Diall Concentrated Caustic Soda" so 2.0 kgs per pipe it is :-)

[steeley]

soda crystals I think are used in washing as in whites, sheets ect.steven the used caustic soda solution could go down the drain because that is what the stuff is for.oh nice cat by the way.we have 5 ourselves 2 of those adopted us lol.did you know they were worshiped as Gods in ancient Egypt and they have never forgotten it.one day I will try the thinners and brake fluid recipe on a pair of my pipes.

[artie]

Interesting thread Steven its nice to get a definitive guide and results.

[spooch63]

Caustic soda is the stuff you want and if you want to get them really clean mix it with methanol and not water, it will react quite violently when mixing it getting quite hot and creates an acid solution that will burn through clothes, leather and skin like a hot knife through butter so be very very careful if you go down that route !!

[steven]

Hi,

Thanks for the info about using methanol instead of water, I hadnt heard of that one.

I have no idea where to buy methanol, so I googled it. www.chemicals.co.uk/methanol

This was the first place I looked, and methanol is £23.40p for 2.5 ltrs from them, so we would need 4 of those drums, which would cost £93.60p to get the amount of methanol we need to do our spannies.....oh I just looked at a 25ltr drum, and thats £46.13p, so its getting better.

Some more googling tells me that some antifreezes have methanol in them, but not all of them. 8 ltrs of antifreeze wouldnt be cheap either, it must be somewhere about £5 per ltr or so.

I did some more googling for methanol and sodium hydroxide, oh it does sound nasty !

The bit that stuck in my mind was.....The reaction is so exothermic that ignition is possible !

steven.

[spooch63]

I pay 15p/ltr so not too expensive, but you are correct in thinking its nasty stuff to use but does a brilliant job, never has a problem with it igniting though

[yamanastic]

Jul 21, 2014 8:31:52 GMT 1 steven said:

Hi,

Thanks for the replys.
Here are a few pics, as you can see they are quite rough, but I will give it a go.
Does anyone have any pics of an Allspeed cut open?, so I can see where to cut, if I decide to cut them open to bash the mangled bits out.

I had read online that the thing to seal them with is a a potato, when filling them with caustic soda.
I ended up using a rubber glove, and insulating tape, then a second glove over that and tape again, seems to seal perfectly, and no leaks. I sealed both ends of the pipes up that way.

As the pics will show, they say: Genuine Allspeed
BS ?7193/1
350

Im wondering why they say 350 did you get Allspeeds that were made for 250,s as well

I take it there should be packing or wadding in the baffles? Any pics of how the baffles should look when packed?

Thanks again in advance if anyone manages to put some pics up of what a decent set of Allspeeds should look like.
cheers,
steven.

Here are a couple of photos I took of my small can allspeeds when then circlip and end cap was removed to show you how they are packed, hope they help you.

[steven]

Hi Yamanastic,
Thanks for the pics of the packing.
Do you have any pics of the front end of the pipes please? Idealy, im looking for a pic of what the anchor points for the springs look like so I can make some up, I mean the anchor points on the pipes, not the anchoir points on the exhaust studs end.
Thanks again,
cheers,
steven.

[steven]

Hi,

I emptyed out my spannies this afternoon, after trying them for a week with Soda Crystals (sodium carbonate) and I can confirm that soda crystals are pants at cleaning carbon from inside exhausts.
Caustic Soda (sodium hydroxide) is a gazzilion times better at removing carbon than Soda crystals.

I poured both spannies into the bucket, and what came out was totaly clear, not a hint of blackness or dirt or carbon.
When I poured the bucket of soda crystals out through a rag, the rag was spotless, no dirt or carbon on it, so no more soda crystals for me.

While I was rinsing out the exhausts, I discovered that I could get the hose all the way through the pipe and back out the other end.
I have never had an allspeed opened up, so I was surprised that there was nothing else inside, and I could pass the hose right through with ease.

I then decided to try and get some more carbon out, so I found an old LC chain hanging up in the garage, and dropped that in one end, and again, I managed to pass the old bike chain all the way through the pipe and back out the other end.
I kept hold of one end and allowed the chain to drop inside the pipes from both ends, and stood for ages shaking them.
Then, I rinsed the pipes out again into a bucket, and sieved the contents of the bucket through a rag, in an attempt to catch any more carbon.....This time there was another fair bit of carbon, so my pipes have done another wee black turd !

I have mixed up some more sodium hydroxide, this time I mixed 1.5kg to 4 ltrs of water and added that to each pipe.
I used hot water this time, as I read that hot water helps.

I will give them to next weekend again, and see what comes out this time, cant be too many turds left in there ?

steven.

[yamanastic]

Aug 3, 2014 10:58:13 GMT 1 steven said:

Hi Yamanastic,
Thanks for the pics of the packing.
Do you have any pics of the front end of the pipes please? Idealy, im looking for a pic of what the anchor points for the springs look like so I can make some up, I mean the anchor points on the pipes, not the anchoir points on the exhaust studs end.
Thanks again,
cheers,
steven.

I hope these are okay for you

[steven]

Hi,
Thanks very much for the pics.

Do you recon thats how they were from new? or are those ones that someone has welded on as a repair ?

Thanks again,

steven.

[yamanastic]

As far as I know that's them from new, mine have just seen better days I think.

[steven]

...hi, ok, cool, thanks very much again,
cheers,
steven.

[steven]

Hi,
I finished off the de-coke of my pipes.
I ended up leaving them for two weeks this time, and giving them another good ratteling inside with a length of chain and they are nice and clean looking.

If I was doing another set, I would just do the same again and keep changing it every week or so until I could get no more carbon out, this set seemed to take approx three weeks or so and three changes of solution until I was getting no more carbon out.

As the pics will show, flash rusting is the problem now, as with the petrol tanks once you de rust them.
I suppose all that un-burnt oil and carbon will have stopped them rusting, but im sure a swill out with some diesel will do them for now.

I kept all the wee black turds of carbon, and wrapped them in cling film .....Im not realy sure why tho
I weighed the carbon I got out the pipes and it weighs 250 grammes or 1/4 a kilo sounds better, or even half a pound !

Thats the easy bit done, all I need to do now to make them serviceable again, is get the horendous dents, dings and bashes etc out of them.
steven.

[steeley]

steven great job on the pipe decoke.keep us updated on how you get on with the repairs on them.