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Post by JonW on Jun 25, 2014 8:47:51 GMT 1
Ive two things I need to get from my LC loom, any help much appreciated: 1, a switched 12V line. I was using the oil tank feed, but now that I want to reconnect the oil tank I will lose the connector, and when I tried to piggyback it on that pin the way the oil level sender works means there is not 12v on that pin now. Im not sure why, but its ok, I dont mind, I just need another good wire to tap into. This will power my Zeel and Koso units. 2, I run a Zeeltronic VCDI-04 which I dont think has a tacho output, probably as its not actually a CDI, just an interrupter unit but I would like to feed a Koso gauge. Is there anywhere in the LC's ignition I can take a feed from? Interestingly the instructions with the Koso suggest a light feed or rectifier, is that really something that would work?  I found a guy on another forum had connected this unit to skidoo and said 'I've tried lighting coil pickup and then I directly saw RPMs on the gauge.' So I assume I could tap into any of the white wires from the stator, or do we think that is too high a voltage? The other sled threads (they are the ones who love using EGTs it seems) also talk about using the coil positive wire, taht makes sense as that's were the pulse comes from the stator... Im leaning towards this, any reason why not? |
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Post by 4l04ever on Jun 25, 2014 10:16:08 GMT 1
Coil voltage will be too high. White wires from stator are around 60V AC, so do not use those either! Zeeltronic do an adapter to convert the coil input voltage to 12V level. www.zeeltronic.com/page/m_elec.phpLooks like you may need the REVD2 as the LC has 2 sparks per revolution. |
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Post by JonW on Jun 25, 2014 13:15:02 GMT 1
Thanks for the input and v interesting as I didnt know Zeeltronic did those adaptors, cool stuff.
Actually, the pulses arent an issue for the Koso, you can convert the pulses using the on board software, they are quite neat like that.
Ive been reading more fitting stuff from Koso and pretty much everything says to use the white wires, hmm... And, the size of wire the koso uses is really thin which doesnt bode well either I guess.
Ok, So you think the small wires on the coil (orange and black) are no good either? I was wondering if the orange was the way to go... Looking at the wiring diagram I see the ignition trigger sends to the CDI which passes to the coil via that orange wire.
Otherwise there are other wires from the CDI I guess, W/R from stator any use?
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Post by 4l04ever on Jun 25, 2014 13:58:37 GMT 1
Measure the voltage on the orange or the red/white with a scope or meter. The red/white is from the pickup coil, but I think the voltage would be very small.
Orange would be too high. That is the wire you would put the Zeeltronic adapter onto.
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Post by muttsnuts on Jun 25, 2014 16:23:11 GMT 1
For your first point, another switched live - if its an LC loom, pickup the red and yellow wire, that is a switched live - I also put an inline 3 amp fuse between the feed wire and the unit (digital dash) so that its protected a little better
In respect of the Koso, I am using an electronic dash and I picked up the orange wire (coil feed wire) for the signal and then set my digital dash to sync with the 2 pulses per revolution, works a treat
HTH
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Post by rich on Jun 25, 2014 18:56:00 GMT 1
Any brown wire is switched live on these bikes. If you want one inside the headlamp shell, piggyback off the front brakelight switch brown wire, or you can also use the rear brakelight switch brown  |
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Post by JonW on Jun 26, 2014 0:56:02 GMT 1
Measure the voltage on the orange or the red/white with a scope or meter. The red/white is from the pickup coil, but I think the voltage would be very small. Orange would be too high. That is the wire you would put the Zeeltronic adapter onto. Thanks, I agree the pickup volts would be very small, but I guess if the Koso can read the pulse, thats all it needs. hmm. Are you saying I should use the orange or you think its too high a voltage? Im starting to wonder if the Koso gauge understands what its getting and wont fry since they tell you to use it like this? |
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Post by JonW on Jun 26, 2014 1:00:32 GMT 1
For your first point, another switched live - if its an LC loom, pickup the red and yellow wire, that is a switched live - I also put an inline 3 amp fuse between the feed wire and the unit (digital dash) so that its protected a little better. Any brown wire is switched live on these bikes. If you want one inside the headlamp shell, piggyback off the front brakelight switch brown wire, or you can also use the rear brakelight switch brown Thanks guys! I think I had a blonde moment until I read Rich's post. Of course the brake light switch is the way to go, its what Ive used on countless other projects and quite why I hadnt thought of it is a bit embarrassing, I reckon i must be getting old.. whats my name? where am I? Eeek...! Good idea on the fuse, I will fit one, makes sense. ta. |
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Post by JonW on Jun 26, 2014 1:04:23 GMT 1
In respect of the Koso, I am using an electronic dash and I picked up the orange wire (coil feed wire) for the signal and then set my digital dash to sync with the 2 pulses per revolution, works a treat HTH Thanks! Did you just splice it into the wire or use some kind of step down for the voltage? The more I read the more I think the Koso can take the voltage, I'm just being careful, dont want to burn up an expensive unit just for revs when I have a working mechanical tacho just under the unit. hmm... I assume your Koso wiring diagram looks much like mine... ie mental LOL. As an aside, the skidoo boys all reckon the Koso EGT manual is the worst manual they have ever seen, tho I have a WMF Pressure cooker that is way worse as it totally ignored most of the features and how it actually worked, including missing the picture with the numbers they refer to in the text LOL |
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Post by muttsnuts on Jun 26, 2014 9:15:14 GMT 1
Hi Jon, the orange wire is just the signal wire to the coil, it comes from the CDI etc, it doesn't carry high voltage, the white wires do as they are the charging wires that go to the rectifier (60v I think), so avoid them.
Mine unit isn't a Koso, its a Trans Logic (£450 race one !), but I am sure they will all use the exact same electronics give or take.
HTH
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Post by JonW on Jun 26, 2014 11:00:06 GMT 1
Sounds like just what i need, Thanks mate!
I remember looking at your unit when you posted it, looke superb!
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Post by 4l04ever on Jun 26, 2014 22:27:25 GMT 1
Hi Jon, the orange wire is just the signal wire to the coil, it comes from the CDI etc, it doesn't carry high voltage, the white wires do as they are the charging wires that go to the rectifier (60v I think), so avoid them. Mine unit isn't a Koso, its a Trans Logic (£450 race one !), but I am sure they will all use the exact same electronics give or take. HTH The orange wire may have 200V+ on it. Look up the spec for output voltage from a CDI unit. You may be able to fit a resistor to lower the voltage. Check it with an oscilloscope. Quote from Wiki.... A typical CDI module consists of a small transformer, a charging circuit, a triggering circuit and a main capacitor. First, the system voltage is raised up to 250 to 600 volts by a power supply inside the CDI module. Then, the electric current flows to the charging circuit and charges the capacitor. The rectifier inside the charging circuit prevents capacitor discharge before the moment of ignition. When the triggering circuit receives triggering signals, the triggering circuit stops the operation of the charging circuit, allowing the capacitor to discharge its output rapidly to the low inductance ignition coil. |
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Post by JonW on Jun 27, 2014 1:49:11 GMT 1
Ooof! I dont have an oscilloscope, but I do have a normal volt meter, I would test with that, I assume that would work to at least say its its obviously more than 12v.
Thanks 4lo!
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Post by muttsnuts on Jun 27, 2014 9:06:51 GMT 1
um, interesting, well mine is connected to the orange ignition coil wire and works perfectly and the unit hasn't gone bang, maybe the Koso is different then, but the translogic works just fine as I've wired it, if I get chance I'll take some photos so you can see it
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Post by midlifecrisisrd on Jun 27, 2014 10:41:13 GMT 1
Orange wire on the coil is where most bike take their tacho feed from.
Had a late 250 YPVS tacho on my bike that signalled from the coil instead of the CDI PV signal and it was fine.
Also a when dyno'd the feed for the revs was tapped into the coil, actually have a plug fitted now for dyno connection.
Would think as tacho is has a separate feed the signal is exactly that, just a signal and voltage not important so probably an opto coupler which will work on voltages from 12 to 300. Doesn't draw any power, just sees the signal.
Steve
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Post by muttsnuts on Jun 27, 2014 11:44:23 GMT 1
must admit I thought how it worked was the ignition coils charge up via the feed from the orange wire and then when the CDI sends the signal to the coils (via the orange feed wire) that they then discharge down to earth via the spark plugs, didn't think the orange wire carried much voltage, but when I get chance I am going to check it and see how much it carries
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Post by 4l04ever on Jun 27, 2014 12:00:14 GMT 1
There is an alterntive type of ignition called TCI, which only sends 12V to the coils, but CDI units all seem to run high voltages. I was looking at building my own ignition system using a PIC microcontroller so was looking at the best option for firing the coils. CDI looked easier to implement.
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Post by JonW on Jun 27, 2014 14:04:02 GMT 1
Really interesting stuff, Thanks guys! Im learning from whats being said, which is all good imho. I will also email Koso when I know a voltage and check that the unit is ok with it, but like has been said above I am thinking that it sees the pulse and doesnt use the voltage on that circuit, my issue is the bike is not running at the mo as it in pieces. oops.
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Post by JonW on Jun 30, 2014 7:59:29 GMT 1
Did anyone get a chance to measure the orange wire, I didnt, its under the tank thus less easy to get to and my bike isnt what id call running as the map is scrambled. I did very briefly run it up with the orange wire as the feed and initially got nothing, then i stopped blipping the throttle and at idle the revs seem about right (between 840 and 1050 etc), but if I gently blip the throttle the numbers on the dash drop away rapidly to zero, its like its in reverse, hmm... Any ideas?
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Post by JonW on Jul 2, 2014 3:55:52 GMT 1
For those following this I have a request in with Koso North America who will have their technical manager look over the LC wiring diagram and get back to me on their advise on where to fit this. They did say that I could wrap the red wire round the HT lead which is interesting, so defo this circuit is some kind of pulse sensor.
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