Electrolysis rust

[martyngsxr1]

Well going to give the electrolysis a go on my spare tank as there is a bit of surface rust inside I will let you lot know how it goes

[gsexr]

This could be interesting

[martyngsxr1]

Well read the bit in practical sports bike about it and thought I would give it a go doing it in mothers shed as then if it all goes pete tong the wife can't moan at me

[huggy76]

Excellent, please post up results as I still haven't done mine with the white vinegar that I was going to.

[andys2]

I saw the same article in Practicle Sports Bikes. I've used this process before, not on a fuel tank, but on really rusty car parts and I couldn't believe how well it cleans them up. Post up some pics when you've done your tank.

[calum64]

I googled this at weekend and watched a video of a yank doing it. He didn't us a battery like ps did just done it straight from charger.

[LC_BOTT]

Jun 18, 2014 18:38:28 GMT 1 huggy76 said:

Excellent, please post up results as I still haven't done mine with the white vinegar that I was going to.

I tried it this way a few months ago on a very rusty RGV tank, took a few days, but the rust just lifted away and floated around in 'sheets' on top of the vinegar, was well impressed with how well it worked.

[martyngsxr1]

Well got round my mums tonight and the bung that I had out in the tank were the fuel c**k should be has been leaking it seems to be working but am going to have to do it again

[steven]

Hi,
I did two of my tanks last year using electrolosis, after reading about it online.
There is lots of info online about the various methods and ways of doing it, and Im sure I posted about it on here at the time, but I cant find the post.
Here is a copy and paste from the LC Club site that I put up at the time about how I did it.

HTH.
steven.


Spent a bit of time over the past few weekends cleaning two petrol tanks out and putting por 15 tank liners in them.
Cleaning the tanks out before the por 15 was used consisted of putting loads of small nuts inside the tank and shaking it for ages, then shaking it again for ages to get them out, I found that a length of jack chain, that they use to hang industrial lights from is just as good, and much easier to get back out.

One tank had an old tank liner inside it, to get that out I bought 10ltrs of acetone from ebay, I had read that it only took a few hours to melt the old liner, but I had to keep it in the tank for about 2 weeks, and shake it regularly, but eventualy it melted it, and it all ran out like milk.

Then I read up loads online about the electrolisis or reverse electrolosis thing, and was amazed with the results.
There is varying info on how to do it, low amps over a longer time, or high amps over a shorter time.
My preferance was high amps over a shorter time.... as it made more bubbles, seemed to get out more rust, and was generaly more of a violent reaction, as soon as the battery was connected, the tank started foaming and bubbeling and spewing rust out all over the slabs.

I tried various power supplys, and got it up to 10 amps or so using a heavy duty car battery, a bike battery only lasted about half an hour beofre it was flat,even with a battery charger connected.
The big car battery lasted several hours and I was delighted with the results, the tanks were imaculate inside on completion.
I have sice read that an old PC power supply is the thing to use, as you get good amps out of them.
It is quite messy, and put big rust marks down the sides of the tanks, but a bit of Tcut removed it afterwards.
I found it quite interesting doing the electrolosis, they say "water and electicity" dont mix but I was astonished with the results and how clean they both were, the only problem is trying to stop them flash rusting.I sat for ages with "the war department,s" hair drier and then left them next to the radiator for a few days to ensure they were completely dry before fitting the liners.

I pressure tested the tanks before and after doing all this to 2 psi, purely out of curiosity, and all was well.
It was a lot of messing about, but I recon it was worth it.

The tanks look like brand new inside now, and Im delighted with the results.
I kept the two tins that the tank liner came in, and once they had gone hard, I poured petrol in one and acetone in the other, and kept topping them up every few days for about a week, nothing melted or even got soggy.So all seems to be ok.

steven.

[andys2]

Dam, that's a serious set up! Good work!

[lb]

That's cool. What other solution did you use in the water? Did you stop the flash rust with hairdryer?

[steven]

Hi,
After reading round the net, I ended up using normal table salt, or sodium chloride.
Some sites say to use washing soda or soda crystals.
As I said, I went for the fast option as opposed to the slow option, as I wanted to do a tank in one day, and not leave things over night or longer.

The lower the amps/current the longer you have to leave it.
I think if you are just using a battery charger, you have to leave it for days.
This is what made me decide to go with high amps for a few hours, rather than low amps for a few days.

I got mine up to 10 amps or so for a good few hours, and as the pics of the yellow tank will show,it is quite a violent reaction and the tank was bubbeling and spewing rust out as soon as I connected it up, it was instant.

The pics of the white tank was very low amps and as you can see, a much less violent reaction, I think the lesser amps takes a much longer time.

Another major factor is the conductivity of your solution, the stronger the solution or electrolite, the more amps it will draw, and the quicker the reaction seems to happen.

I messed about with various solution strengths and various amps, but in the end I went with a strong solution/electrolite and as high amps as I could get.
On completion, I thouroughly rinsed and rinsed and rinsed the tanks out with fresh water in attempt to remove any traces of salt that may be left in the tank, once I had done that, I filled the BATH up with fresh water and rinsed them again !

Flash rusting starts SECONDS after you take all the water out it, and seems imposible to stop.
I did not read anything online that told me how to stop flash rusting.
If you read the instruction with the por-15 it says that por-15 is designed to take to light rust.

After doing all the pre treatments and marine clean and stuff, I dried my tanks with a hair drier and left them against the radiator for a few days to completely dry out, then put the liner in.
I stood for ages draining the excess liner out in an attempt to stop it "puddeling" inside the tank.

I have had petrol in one of the tanks for about 9 months or so with no problems with the liner braking up or lifting, the other has had petrol in for a few month too with the same success.
In saying that, since fitting the liners, I have only ever used SUPER/PREMIUM unleaded, as I thought it had no ethanol in it, but from what I read, even super/premium unleaded has now got ethanol in it.


There are various warnings and health and saftey guff regarding using salt in the electrolite, as they say it releases chlorine gas, which is apparently the devils work !

I have to get over the various health and saftey hurdles/barriers at work on a daily basis, as probably most of us do.
I find it ironic, that they issue health and saftey warnings regarding repairing a motorbike tank.
As actually driving said motorbike on the public roads is a gazzilion time more dangerous than making a few whiffs of chlorine gas.

I have had a wee bit of training in writing risk assesemnts at work, and the way I see it is, if you completed a risk assesemnt for driving a motorbike on the public roads from A to B, it would come out as an unacceptable risk, and you would have to find an alternative method of getting from A to B.

As motorcycle enthusiasts, we must not really have much regard for health and saftey, as the easily available statistics will show that there is a fair chance that if you drive a motorbike on a public road, you are going to end up on your arse at some point !

steven.

[steven]

ps...the stuff in the bucket in the pics, is what came OUT the tanks after doing the electrolosis.
The solution/electrolite I used was just salt and tap water.
steven.

[raider18]

thanks steven
done mine your way all day 2day
that gets rid of the crud

[stusco]

Very good write up and results ,I always thought water and electricity didn't mix you live and learn

[greasemeup]

Would this method work to de-coke expansion chambers?

[Pidz]

You're doing a top rate job there matey. People just don't realise what we have to go through just to preserve a fuel tank. If only someone produced a descent copy?

Oh, BTW. Maybe your Mum might not complain as much as the wife if you blew up the shed, but also remember it is your inheritance, so try and keep it intact!

[Deleted]

With regard to the flash rusting, put in a small amount of 85% phosphoric acid into the tank after you have done the electrolysis this will pacify the steel and remove any flash rust that has occurred, you then rinse that out and neutralise with washing soda, repeat until all the rust has gone a blue black colour, rinse with washing soda and dry thoroughly with your missus hair dryer or heat it to drive out any moisture (low heat on the BBQ say 60C is good for this) allow to cool then apply your sealer

Salt water in steel probably isn't a good mix as you can never guarantee getting all of the salt solution out, washing soda is a much better option

With cooking salt (in fact any Chloride salt) the fumes that come off are Hydrogen and Chlorine, these are the bubbles you see, hydrogen is explosive, and chlorine is deadly to the lungs

You also have the possibility of forming Hydrochloric Acid or HCl, the really bad thing about HCl is that it eats steel 6 times faster than rust and its a mongrel to get out of tanks although a washing soda mixture at the end of the process will neutralise it to some degree

You can however get buffered HCl which wont eat the steel only the rust, then you rinse with washing soda, you need to be careful though and not leave it in too long, you are only dealing with sheet steel here and I would suggest about a minute at a time to be safe

Washing soda and a low current for a long time is much better than high current for a short time as you will not have the problem of uneven dissolving of the rust and subsequent pitting of the tank

I have seen the process performed on small bits of steel with Coca Cola, it contains phosphoric acid in small doses, but it can work, just drop and old coin into a glass overnight and watch what happens (mind you it will dissolve a small lump of steak too, does wonders for your stomach I guess, but still tastes good with a bit of Jacks)

I hope this helps

[steven]

Hi,

I tried both methods on two tanks, low amps over a long time and high amps over a shorter time.
In PRACTICE I found the high amps over a shorter time better. You would have to leave it on low amps for DAYS/WEEKS? to get all the rust out.
Rattling a piece of chain or a load of small nuts inside the tank for a while gets rid of the loose stuff to start with.

I checked inside the tanks on completion using a torch and a mirror on a stick and the tanks were spottless inside.
It couldnt have eaten away the steel too much, as I pressure tested both tanks on completion to two psi and both tanks held that pressure with ease.

Any dodgy gasses that may have been given off were negligable, as I did it outside.

I rinsed the tanks out thouroughly with fresh water on completion for ages and left a fresh water hose inside them for a while too in an attempt to rinse any final traces of salt water from them.
Then I filled the bath with water and totaly submerged them in that for several hours too, I had to clean the bath on completion, which is not realy my department, but I though in the interest of industial relations with the "war department" that Id better clean it. !

If I was going to do it again, I would use the exact same method as it worked perfectly for me, and with a por 15 liner in them I am hoping and fairly confident that they will remain servicable for years to come.

I agree with the majority of all this health and saftey guff that we have to adhere to these days, and I see it as just another barrier we all have to get over on a daily basis, but at the end of the day the job still has to get done, the only other option is dont do it and remain indoors wrapped in cotton wool all nice and safe, while everyone else is out in the sunshine enjoying themselfs on their LC/bike.

I experience situations like this on a daily basis at work. When im told how unsafe things are I reply, ok will we just leave it then? , put a big padlock round the gate and we will all just go home?

Usualy when there is something "dodgy" to be done, all the "clever" people dissapear away back to their offices out the road and stick there head in the sand, while the "hands on" people use their experience, knowledge, common sence and team work to get the job done in a timely and as safe as possible manner.

Statisticaly, the most dangerous thing we all do at work is....drive too and from our place of work, as there are loads more people injured in road accidents than industrial accidents, but we all still keep driving.

The choice to do our tanks using this method is up to the individual I suppose, but having used this method in the past, I would not hesitate to use it again, and I feel that as long as it is done outside, there is minimul chance of any nasty gasses taking the edge off your day.

steven.

[Deleted]

I'm not implying that there are copious amounts of gases letting off, its pure chemistry about what occurs

What I was pointing out is possibly a better way to do the process, the less corrosive agents you use surely the better the result is going to be, less is in the majority of cases more, if you catch my drift

Low current is inherently safer than high current, yes it'll take longer however it is safer putting 0.5-1 amps through rather than ten

Get it wrong and ten amps will kill you , 1A can give you a fright, what happens to the child that grabs hold of the wrong electrode, goodnight Irene. Anyone think of that?

And hydrochloric acid on steel in my book is asking for problems in the future

I have wandered around all types of refineries and mine sites for over thirty years and have had and seen my fair share of incidents that were the result of other peoples carelessness not to take safety seriously

If its not safe, don't do it that way, if you do you are asking for trouble, and no I'am not some OH&S guru

The method of high amps may work perfectly, however all I wanted to point out is that it has inherent problems, so what if it takes longer, if you don't end up killing yourself or someone else much less so your tank, then you are going to be far better off

A take on an old saying, if I put my head in the oven to dry my hair should you do it too?

There is no such thing as common sense only uncommon sense, saying put a padlock on it and leave it alone is akin to putting your head in the sand any way you look at it, it doesn't solve your problem

Experience and knowledge do go a long way however doing the job safely is the sensible thing to do

Food for thought I hope