So What happens when NOS runs out?

[Pidz]

I have been living in China for the last three and a half years. True I live in rural China and most things are still backwards here. It's only been 2 and a half years you could buy fresh milk locally, coz not many homes had a refrigerator. But things have been coming on in leaps and bounds. Industries are now setting standards. Quality inspection in the clothing, food and motor industries have come a long way and true, it still has some way to go. I say this, because as we are aware the bikes we cherish most and spend 1000's of hours, blood, sweat and tears, (and not the mention the cursing and endless money we throw at them), relies on the available New, remaining old stock. This is the true term of NOS: Parts that have been pushed to the back of retailers stores and forgotten, then suddenly been dug out and seen the light of day. Not as many fleabay sellers think, replicated parts in a Singapore or Thailand factory, sold in fresh plastic bags and newly printed 'Genuine Yamaha' labels. Real NOS has torn bags, scuffed labels and the contents needs to thoroughly checked over for corrosion and re-lubricating and cleaned. But my main question is, what will happen when the genuine NOS supply is exhausted in the next 10 to 15 years and the suppliers have wrung us for every penny they can get out of us? The mother factory in Shizuoka has long since turned it's back on us. The answer is of course, we are going to have to follow the big shops like marks and Spencer, B&Q, etc and get our supplies from China. The Chinese are not that clever when it comes to inventing. The only things that come to my mind are chopsticks, paper, ink and fireworks. But one thing they are masters of, it is duplicating. True, you still have to stand over them to ensure the quality is maintained, but today, quality assurance is getting much higher. Unfortunately for us, the only bikes that ever made it here were the smaller bikes such as the RD125lc and the TZR125/250. But these were only from about '88 to '90 when the 4 strokes too over. The 350/250lc didn't arrive here. But in the future there is nothing wrong in them making our spares. I have been a bit busy here souring out genuine NOS, later I will sell it on fleabay at what consider to be a fair cost, not a get rich quick scheme. But I will call here first, no worries. Just out of interest, I purchase 1 replica piston for a RD125lc to compare it to the real thing.



At first glance they look okay.







But IMO they need finishing around the transfer windows, too many rough edges. And no small chamfer at the base of the skirt.

Size wise with a vernier gauge, I could tell no difference. But the major difference is......



The price. The one on the left is the real thing, a naked piston in a box. Currently they seem to sell anywhere from £25 to £40. The one on the right, comes wrapped in a bag and individually wrapped piston pin, circlips and the piston ring. Bought at the hideous price of £3.80 [/font]

Warning! Please note guy's. These pistons might come up on auction sites for sale. They are okay if you know this and rework and finish them off, but be aware of some people trying to pass them off at £25 +, as NOS.

[muzz350]

Interesting read that - cheers

[JonW]

Great stuff Pidz! In Aus we feel close to China and geography means we take a lot of goods from there, weve seen the quality improve like you say, but still you need your wits about you.

[lukey1965]

This is a quote from a friend on another forum. He is an engineer.

"I went and treated myself to a 53 plate CLK320 a few months back, the garage i bought it from had just had 4 new discs and complete set of pads all round for the MOT. Well over the past month i noticed a slight vibration under heavy braking, gradually getting worse. After checking it all out (in between my visits to the yacht) i ran a DTI over the front discs and low and behold, OSF disc had a warped area. I ordered a complete set of 4 M-Tec discs as i have heard very good things about them and they are made in Ireland. Got them through within 2 days and got to work fitting them...superb quality, made in NI, groves and dimple drilled, with Mintex race sintered pads all for £190 delivered....BARGAIN. Its worth a note that the CLK is heavy on discs and they need to be good.

Anyway, got the old ones off (less than 6 weeks old) and started checking the manufacturers stamps...guess what...MADE IN FECKING CHINA. Took the disc into work for metallurgical and ultrasound tests out of curiosity....surprise surprise..sub standard steel, poor quality castings, air pockets in the steel substrate....and WOA..just in the warp area, a crack 3" long 1.7mm under the face...that disc was ready to let go

Guys, if you insist on buying brake products from China, then do so in the sure knowledge your are risking your life. I know some of you think they represent good value...and thats your choice....pay your money and risk your own life if you wish, but you have been warned yet again....in lockys own words...ITS SHIT.

I have passed the details and report on to the garage who supplied the discs on the car and contacted the SMMT and Trading Standards."

I would be as wary of sub-standard engine parts as brake parts.

[justyr]

Same goes for tyres.
5 years ago now I hopped in the car, equipped with recent Goodyear F1 Eagles (by previous owner), went beetling off down a country road mate in the passenger seat. Put the thing reasonably enthusiastically into a sweeper... and BANG. Backend lost, tyre deflated. Caught the barsteward halfway round but the thing slewed to a halt hitting a fencepost. Fencepost gets ejected into the air and comes into the car through the side window and smacks me clean in the middle of the head.
Claret everywhere, car f***ed, mate frightened to death, ambulances, hospital, stitches, insurance claims etc etc.

It turns out all because of a Chinese made, inferior quality Goodyear F1. & I now sport an ugly scar across my napper.

Avoid avoid avoid.

[farmboy]

Just a little off topic, but all do do with China made copys.

Doing some research at work over some diesel fuel filters we use made by Stanadyne a major US company in fuel injection . Did some Google searches using a major OEM part number , surpise, surpise got loads of hits from Chinese company websites claiming to make the same filter to OEM spec and can even supply in identical boxes stamped with batch numder and p/n just an exact copy , with nothing to hide.
The had ads on the sites for brokers to arrange shipping to the UK . The cost/1000 worked out at just a few quid for each filter.
I bet the filter media was nothing better than pouring the diesel through a pair of my old socks!

Just total ....

[yazza54]

I'd be more worries about what the chinky piston is made of than the finishing

Although it does look rough as f**k, you can clean that up. Doesn't stop the skirt cracking or a pin coming loose and destroying your cylinder at least

[JonW]

Scary stories for sure, and you can get a bad product from anywhere, Ive had bad car brake disks from Germany over the years (they said made in Germany but who really knows), but it does seem that as so much is made in the PRC now and to a price that we see lots of poor quality things from there. Lots of the household named brands we know and love have been sourcing and manufacturing in China for years now, its nothing new and stuff you use everyday came from there. Its not all shite, but the quality does depend on the price and how well the factory was run / overseen. Would you be happier to see things made in say Malaysia (many tyres) or Thailand (A few Hondas, even the Jazz if/when Swindon goes on strike)? The modern way is world sourcing and I bet that even a Rolls Royce has some Chinese made stuff in it. Certainly 99% of Machine Mart stuff is Chinese, yet Clarke is such an English sounding name...

I well remember a time in the late 70s and early 80s that it felt like we school kids were being conditioned to think that Made in England was a bit naff and we accepted Made in Japan and Hong Kong better, especially hand held electronics and watches. That time was when we lost our Engineering and manufacturing of course, a sad day and I feel bad we didnt do more to buy british, but we were just kids. One modern positive is the places that have sprung up that do stuff like M-TEC does, I actually have their brakes on my Alfa downunder, great kit and good value. All power to them for doing what they do.

Interestingly the 'Made in' stamp is not as simple as you might think. Take a Swiss watch, you can legally (and yes its all very legal this stuff and companies have been sued and made to pay for incorrect usage) write 'Swiss Made' on the dial if something like 50% of the work and parts originate from Swiss Suppliers. That means some of the watches you spend thousands on have cases and movement parts made elsewhere and just finished or built up next to a cuckoo clock buy an employee of a Swiss company, the employee could be foreign of course. Ok, perhaps not all are like that, and all of them deny they have a Chinese manufacturing arm, and bear in mind that even Seiko doesn't make all their watches in Japan.

So should we hate the Chinese products? There are some amazing quality things that they make for us. Phones is one good one... Infact most apple stuff comes from there, as are some of the cool CNC things we have for our bikes, mirrors that would cost hundreds if made locally and some amazing levers like the RGV versions I bought for my bike, under $30 landed and if told you the were 80quid you would nod and agree they were still nice (pics on my site on my 31k build if you want to see for yourself).

[tygertung]

It's not the country of origin which matters, it is the quality control at the factory.

The only reason that stuff made in 'first world countries' is generally better is that the wages are so much higher that you can't afford to put out poor quality products.

Chinese stuff can be as good as anywhere else if the workers are given sufficient training and there is proper quality control. I've seen OEM aircraft engine parts made in china and they are no worse than anywhere else. Wages for the workers are probably pretty good too.

My dad has a couple of Honda Today scooters which are made at the Chinese Honda plant and they have very good build quality, finishing and durability. Better than my Japanese made Suzukis from the early '90s I'm pretty sure my father's Yamaha Jog is made in China and it is excellent quality. Has 25k on it and still fast as anything (scooters aren’t designed to do big k's, 25k is probably a lot.

[Norbo]

Interesting that pidz . So not just replacement parts but fake pistons now . The problem with the cheep piston kits is not actually so much the piston its the rings they are brittle and snap in you squeeze them a couple of cm. Good jap rings you can bend them in to a knot and they will not snap. As all ready said its not the fact that they are mad in china that makes them poor quality . some gen yam parts are made in china you just need quality control and make them from quality materials. You only get this if the company that's making the stuff is owned by a Weston or jap company.

[Pidz]

This is it. The whole point is quality from start to finish. To me, the word 'Standard' means a level of quality that people can judge things by. But Asia is made up of many countries and each having their own impression of what an acceptable standard is. The Chinese buy millions of motorcycles of mostly 150 and 125cc. Honda shipped so many, that it was cheaper to open a factory in China. Honda sold all the machinery and plans, then left it to the Chinese to manufacture their own versions. It became Jianglin Honda. These are total shite from beginning to end. Body work doesn't line up, chrome is flaking off from the factory, gaskets are made from cereal packs. But this doesn't matter. I live in rural China and look at the end user. If he has a motorcycle licence, he bought it for a bout £2.00 and never had a test. He wears a T shirt and shorts and no helmet. It is transport for his family of 5. It falls off the stand about 3 times a day but it still runs without glass in the mirrors and bent handle bars. Local police are too busy texting their girlfriends and reading newspapers, but if one was bored he would stop the rider and insist he has a crash helmet. So the rider just parks up and walks into one of many little shops, that sell open faced crash helmet shaped hats, that are made of basket weaving straw. He is then allowed to go on his way. The reason I say this is because the Chinese version of 'Standard' is much lower down than the western world. But this is okay in rural China. The biggest problem is, that while the Chinese rider is happy with his Jianglin Honda CJ125, the piston for example is also the same dimensions as a western Honda CB125. So there are 100's of little back street workshops, churning out copies of western packaging with the intention of flooding the market. When they come to the western ports in container loads, it is down to the customs to seize, but this doesn't stop people buying loads privately on ebay. But not all is like this. As stated, Apple have a big investment as do many other big western names. But the quality is only good if you stand over a Chinese guy and crack a whip. This may sound a bit archaic, but if you give a chinese a job at 8am and show him the standard of quality you want, by lunchtime the quality has deteriorated. Generically, their brains lack concentration. No joking, I have lost count of the times I have had to grab my wife's hand when crossing a busy, main road because her mobile phone rings and he legs stop moving. They can not multi-task simple things! But overall, the good people in China are now realising that if they want to compete with the west in real terms of quality, that product standards must be high from raw materials to the packaged good leaving the factory. Having said that, the roads are abysmal, even 40 tonnes trucks don't have air suspension, goods are not palletised and forklifted but thrown from hand to hand, but that's another story. Until all the Chinese conform to a world wide standard of practise, be aware of cheap shiny products, there is a reason why they are so cheap.