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Post by muttsnuts on Jan 20, 2014 17:47:41 GMT 1
Right, this should be interesting.
I am building a one off engine and I will need to be able to remap the ignition curve to suit this engine, so the question is which is better, a zeel or an ignitech
To help, here's some background info on the engine.
1. It will be running 4L0 stator plate and cdi
2. The engine will be 400cc
3. Port mappings will be fairly unique, hence the need for a programmable ignition
4. Max rev's won't exceed say 10k
5. The engine will be low compression - approx 6.2:1
There are other factors which I will divulge in good time, but for now I need to decide which igntion system to invest in, I need a complete solution, so not just the ignition unit, but also the mapping software (or access to a copy so I can do the maps on the dyno), the fly leads to do the mapping etc and of course comparative costs
I've looked at both systems and there doesn't seem to be much in it, but before I spend my hard earned cash I thought I'd ask what experiences you guys have had with them and what the general concensus is
Thanks in advance
Unless somebody wants to loan me one of each and then I can could do a comparison on the dyno of them both and then we would all know for sure which is best (if either !)
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Post by midlifecrisisrd on Jan 20, 2014 17:59:28 GMT 1
Personally I have the zeel on my bike and have no experience of the other.
Zeel was easy to set up once you got the hang of the controller but think it is easier with the software and PC.
Personally I would not use the LC stator as the YPVS allows more advance in the mid unless you are re positioning the pick up.
The Zeel without the pv controller is a bit cheaper and I dare say someone will loan you the software or a controller. Can always post you mine if it comes to it.
Think more on here have used the Zeel
Steve
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Post by muttsnuts on Jan 20, 2014 20:17:27 GMT 1
Hi Steve, not thought about using anything other than the LC stator to be honest, mainly becuase that's all I've got available to me, suppose I could put a YPVS stator on, but then I'd need to think about the cdi etc then as well, although that's another question, I am assuming that the zeel/ignitech would effectively replace the cdi unit, but I am also assuming it needs a cdi there to use as a base map to then alter ?
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Post by midlifecrisisrd on Jan 20, 2014 21:00:53 GMT 1
Hi Steve, not thought about using anything other than the LC stator to be honest, mainly becuase that's all I've got available to me, suppose I could put a YPVS stator on, but then I'd need to think about the cdi etc then as well, although that's another question, I am assuming that the zeel/ignitech would effectively replace the cdi unit, but I am also assuming it needs a cdi there to use as a base map to then alter ? No, the zeel is a full replacement so you bin the original CDI Zeel is also digital rather than analogue so will work with any stator. You cannot dial in more advance than the static timing hence the ypvs allowing up to 34 degrees. From memory you do not use the low speed windings ( well either that or the high ) and you connect a switched 12v supply unless you go for the unit that does not need a battery Steve |
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Post by muttsnuts on Jan 20, 2014 21:44:27 GMT 1
Hi guys, that's very useful info, if anything I won't be needing that much advance, I am not going for a wild tune (although the engine could be interesting if it works), I'll be running very low compression, and it won't be revving very high, I am aiming for max power being around 8k/9k top's, as I say, its an unusual thing I am building, once I get a little further down the road with it (end of the month hopefully), I will reveal some details of it. I know I'll need to be able to alter the ignition timing due to what I am doing, it is intended to be a road bike, so a 12v supply will be available, no problems with slotting the back plate, I was speaking to Dave (Trubrit) at the show about ignitech's so hopefully he will chime in at some point with his views/findings/thoughts etc, can't afford to buy both and try it as the budget is tight, so need to try and get all of the right components sorted out. So if I need to get a different stator etc, then so be it, better to know now rather than later I suppose - first thing is to get the engine running mind ! - right back to me port mapping/timing/degree maps as I need to see how it is all looking, odd if I am honest at the moment !  |
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Post by JonW on Jan 20, 2014 23:00:01 GMT 1
I will echo what has been said here, I run the Zeel and the LC stator and dont advise it as I also have a max of 26ish advance, but I am running the piggy back VCDI-04 so just used as much LC as possible to simplify the wiring out of the box, doing it again I would use the ypvs stator and rotor, and I may still do that if i need more advance, but for now its ok.
Id like to try an iggy, but Ive 3 Zeels... why change now LOL
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Post by botty on Jan 20, 2014 23:48:15 GMT 1
Dave. If I'm reading between the lines correctly, and seeing what else your up to at the moment.
I think we may be treading the same path.Mines being developed as we speak.
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Post by Norbo on Jan 21, 2014 0:07:35 GMT 1
The zels are very good and fitted by a lot of people I personally like them however the ignietechs are all so very good and you van run Dc stator with them for even more power . Its because of this advantage I just put together 10 full kits The ignietch box that replaces cdi and is of course programmable and a Dc racing stator and a racing pickup coil with all attachments to connect to your computer £250
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Post by JonW on Jan 21, 2014 1:01:36 GMT 1
Winner, thats a great idea! will check out a supplier? do you have any links for ones that fit the LC?
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Post by johnlc on Jan 21, 2014 1:05:34 GMT 1
Where can the +4 woodruff keys be sourced
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Post by JonW on Jan 21, 2014 3:48:26 GMT 1
Cool, cheers mate!
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Post by Trubrit on Jan 21, 2014 8:26:49 GMT 1
The Only Reason I Went Ignitech Was To Run One Of The New 100/150 Watt Stators As They Have No Feeds on Them To Power A CDI, So A DC Unit Was Needed , You Can Use A Ignitech On A Std Stator You Just Don't Use The Wires That Would Normally Go To Your Std CDI ...I Also Run A Zeel On A Powervalve Motor & Have No Complaints Whatsoever , But I Do Find Programming & Setting Up The Ignitech A lot Easier & You Don't Need An Expensive Programmer Just A Serial To USB Adaptor .... With The Ignitech Only Needing 12V You Can Set Up Without Even Firing Up The Bike It Will Spark By Just Tuning The Flywheel By Hand, I Just Remove The Plugs Run It Up With A Cordless & Strobe & Adjust The Setting On The Laptop until My Datum Points Line Up ....Once These Things Are Setup There Is Not A lot Between Them .. If Your Thinking About A New Stator & Pick up Ignitechs Are The Way To Go .....
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Post by Norbo on Jan 21, 2014 10:22:28 GMT 1
All of the above is why I stated to stock the Ignitech with USB adaptors and the 100.150 stators with super pickups to match as kit. It just seemed the next step forward. especially as a lot of stators are now braking down and good replacements are hard to fined.
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Post by muttsnuts on Jan 21, 2014 12:05:51 GMT 1
so if I am reading this right, buying the whole kit off Norbo as stated above will basically allow me to set it up however I choose and can adjust the timing to suit
Presumably I still have a charging circuit with this set up as I will need one to run certain things that I need to run and without a charging circuit/coils I'll be buggered, or use a very large battery !
Also, the offset keys, if anybody has got one I can loan I can make some up as I hae a load of key steel the right size (I make my own woodruff keys), so I could easily make some offset ones if I have one to copy or the dimensions off one, either will do - £20 seems a bit steep, key steel costs me about £2 for 12" of it - which makes about 20 woodruff keys !
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Post by muttsnuts on Jan 21, 2014 12:07:37 GMT 1
The Only Reason I Went Ignitech Was To Run One Of The New 100/150 Watt Stators As They Have No Feeds on Them To Power A CDI, So A DC Unit Was Needed , You Can Use A Ignitech On A Std Stator You Just Don't Use The Wires That Would Normally Go To Your Std CDI ...I Also Run A Zeel On A Powervalve Motor & Have No Complaints Whatsoever , But I Do Find Programming & Setting Up The Ignitech A lot Easier & You Don't Need An Expensive Programmer Just A Serial To USB Adaptor .... With The Ignitech Only Needing 12V You Can Set Up Without Even Firing Up The Bike It Will Spark By Just Tuning The Flywheel By Hand, I Just Remove The Plugs Run It Up With A Cordless & Strobe & Adjust The Setting On The Laptop until My Datum Points Line Up ....Once These Things Are Setup There Is Not A lot Between Them .. If Your Thinking About A New Stator & Pick up Ignitechs Are The Way To Go ..... Thanks Dave, I'll have to have a look at yours when you bring it for the dyno work, BTW the Dyno has been away and had a full refit and we got it back up and running last night, so we are good to go, so send me a PM with some dates that you can do and I'll get it booked in |
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Post by muttsnuts on Jan 21, 2014 12:14:09 GMT 1
Dave. If I'm reading between the lines correctly, and seeing what else your up to at the moment. I think we may be treading the same path.Mines being developed as we speak. um, ok maybe, not sure as I am doing something pretty odd ball - I'll PM you and we can swap details as if you are, I might be further along than you and solved certain problems and I've also had some things made like head plates etc, so might be able to help you out |
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Post by rich on Jan 21, 2014 12:16:18 GMT 1
This is something I have been looking at recently too. General concensus is that the Ignitech kit is just as good as the Zeel and maybe a bit cheaper. As I understand it, the DC CDI is powered directly from the battery instead of the stator coils. You can keep the original stator and original pickup coil, or a DC stator. If you keep the original the battery will still charge as normal. Ignitech also do a powervalve servo box that you program through a usb to com cable.
Only disadvantage I can see is the bike won't start if the battery is flat!
Norbo, any chance of an all in price for the Ignitech CDI, Powervalve box and cable? Would be interesting to compare it to the price of the Zeel all in one unit.
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Post by muttsnuts on Jan 21, 2014 12:26:23 GMT 1
if my battery is flat I will have bigger problems than it starting, in fact I wouldn't want it to start if the battery was flat as it would sieze up pretty much straight away if it did !
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Post by Trubrit on Jan 21, 2014 12:37:35 GMT 1
This is something I have been looking at recently too. General concensus is that the Ignitech kit is just as good as the Zeel and maybe a bit cheaper. As I understand it, the DC CDI is powered directly from the battery instead of the stator coils. You can keep the original stator and original pickup coil, or a DC stator. If you keep the original the battery will still charge as normal. Ignitech also do a powervalve servo box that you program through a usb to com cable. Only disadvantage I can see is the bike won't start if the battery is flat! Norbo, any chance of an all in price for the Ignitech CDI, Powervalve box and cable? Would be interesting to compare it to the price of the Zeel all in one unit. The Ones Norbo Has In Stock Are The Sparker DC-CDI-P2 Race Which Has The Powervalve Controller .. Im Pretty Sure These With The Wiring Loom & USB Connector Are About £200 Norbo Will Confirm This... here's A Link ... www.ignitech.cz/en/vyrobky/dccdip2_race/dccdip2_race.htm |
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Post by muttsnuts on Jan 21, 2014 13:24:38 GMT 1
Thanks Dave, I don't need the power valve part as mine doesn't have any !! I can see a very expensive order going into Norbo shortly ........ |
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Post by rich on Jan 21, 2014 18:36:18 GMT 1
Thanks for the info guys  |
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Post by Norbo on Jan 21, 2014 22:21:00 GMT 1
as dave says I just went for the best you can get with everything in there they are as dave says £195 and the DD stator and super pic ups are pick ups are £55 and if I do them as a kit in throwing in all the USB cables and attachments for the computer
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