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Post by JonW on Aug 30, 2013 7:46:28 GMT 1
I am trying to show Yamaha that it is worth their while to produce more of the 83-85 tanks. At this time I am not trying for anything else. I wouldn't do this if I felt it was a waste of time, so please no negativity about this. Anyway, if you want to support it, please go here: www.rzrd500.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=10430If you want to pass it on to the other forums, please do so, I do not post everywhere...
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Ruddy
Weekend rider
Posts: 71
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Post by Ruddy on Aug 30, 2013 8:12:41 GMT 1
I've got 2 running 31k bike and another to be rebuilt, i have 5 tanks and only 1 of those without holes. I don't like tank sealants but there is no other choice. I would definatly be interested.
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Post by JonW on Aug 30, 2013 8:52:31 GMT 1
Cool, if you are interested then please post in the thread I linked, any votes here wont count as I need everything to be in one place and the forum they are on is an open forum where Yamaha cam read the request/open letter.
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m1ke
Thrash Merchant
Posts: 399
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Post by m1ke on Aug 30, 2013 8:55:35 GMT 1
What I have found interesting is f2 tanks are still available...
Would you pay in the region of £550?
Probably even more for a new run of them....
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Post by midlifecrisisrd on Aug 30, 2013 9:38:03 GMT 1
Not being negative as any reproduced parts are welcome.
Only thing is the price will be high
mint second hand or NOS ones still turn up, there have been 2 (NOS) on ebay this month.
Picked up 2 mint ( totally rust free, 1 dented ) last year for 200 - 250 pound
It really surprises me they have not caught on to the shortage of parts like tanks and bodywork.
I'll get on and vote
Strangely though when Legend Motorcycles made LC tanks he could not shift them so he made no more and scrapped the idea of making 31k tanks.
Steve
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Post by winnerevo1 on Aug 30, 2013 13:01:13 GMT 1
Strangely though when Legend Motorcycles made LC tanks he could not shift them so he made no more and scrapped the idea of making 31k tanks. Steve I don't think that was particularly strange, that was mainly down to price as they were not cheap and were supplied unpainted so by the time you paid for decals and paint they were close to NOS money. As you mentioned, picking up a reasonable condition used tank at a reasonable price (not easy I know, but do-able) is an attractive option when prices for new are high.
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Post by JonW on Aug 30, 2013 13:41:20 GMT 1
Thanks for the input guys, dont forget to post in the thread if you want to add support to the request that Yamaha remake these tanks.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2013 8:21:25 GMT 1
There Was A New Steel Tank On E-Bay A Few Days Ago (Made In India)!!!! If You Dont Cut Yourself On It And It Doesnt Leak Might Be OK Or New Fibre Glass Ones For £225 (Plop)
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Post by Norbo on Aug 31, 2013 8:50:51 GMT 1
Yam would need to make 2K tanks and they will need to sell at least half before they will make them so 1 person has to come up with the money for 1 thousand of them of the bat. They are just not interested in any old bikes no matter what. At least they wouldn't 5 years back I tried to get them to redo the 31K and LC tanks back then and this is what I was told and id have to sell my house to pay for the tanks so I don't think so .
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Post by JonW on Sept 1, 2013 8:27:11 GMT 1
Well on pretty much every forum i posted this I found one thing common... Soo much negativity to this! Ahh well, I guess we wont bother trying again.
No worries. Norbo can you delete this thread please.
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Post by Shytalk on Sept 1, 2013 12:09:52 GMT 1
I don't think its negativity Jon, I think that Yamaha won't do it due to the numbers needed to make it viable, which then means the unit price is too high for the majority of people to stump up.
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Post by JonW on Sept 1, 2013 13:04:50 GMT 1
All I asked for was people to add the fact they wanted a tank or two to the list on the other forum. It wasn't rocket science, yet a lot of people wanted to second guess the whole thing. A simple, 'yes please, i'm in!' would have prompted people to add their name too. Saying it wont happen; be expensive; you can buy one from india; in GRP; or anything else as a public response means that other people wont bother to add their names, especially if they had to register to do it. And... We all know that the less names on the thread the worse chance this request stood. So, ok. I get it now, people cant just do what was asked to give this a chance when someone else was going to do the work to make it happen. I'm sorry to say that I couldn't capture what was needed, but I really wont waste any more time on this now, there are other things we can all be doing. Sorry to those who supported it.
Norbo please close / delete this thread
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2013 17:41:26 GMT 1
Hi Jon, Sorry You Seem Upset And Dissapointed With Our Feeble Response To You Just Cause But Dont You Think Half The Fun Of Keeping 30 odd Year Old Bikes On The Road Is Trying To Source Parts/Tanks And Feeling Pretty Chuffed When You Find Good One Of Whatever Your Looking For? A Brand New Tank Would Be Great I'm Sure Someone Will Tool Up And Start Doing Them Soon. Jeff (nosey newbee from Manchester)
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Post by Norbo on Sept 2, 2013 8:02:21 GMT 1
Sorry Jon if you think I was being Negative. I guess may be I was. But I did ring and talk on the phone yo Yamaha in Japan and send them multiple emails and a write request for both 31K & LC tanks.
I personally would have had a 100 of both tanks right of the bat and that would have cost a small fortune but they just weren't interested in old bikes parts .
They don't even have the moulds any more to make them they will have to make new ones . I know this because I asked for the name of the place that used to make them so I could go to them and ask them to make some tanks with yams permission if they are not interested.
Im just passing on what I found 5 years back I told them how many people are still in to both bikes and I could sell lots of tanks and if they relisted them at yam dealers all over the world they would soon sell out if they made them as lots of people would buy 2 or even 3 before the batch ran out.
But the response I got was they needed to make 2 thousand in a batch and I would have to have half that's 500 31K and 500 LC tanks and pay up front id need to remarriage my house for that and even then it would not be enough and the bank would not do it for the perchace of tanks any way.
Believe me when I say no one wants yam to make them more then me I have tired for almost a year to get them interested.
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Post by jollyjoiner on Sept 2, 2013 8:42:37 GMT 1
This is getting interesting
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Post by sunsetrider02 on Sept 2, 2013 10:17:01 GMT 1
There is a point being missed ... I think. You need to remember that Yamaha does not manufacture all the parts for any given bike. They (like every other manufacturer) source their respective parts from various suppliers. Yamaha do not bend, press and weld their tanks. They are actually sourced by manufacturers contracted by Yamaha to produce to specification. From a source from within, tanks for most of the lower products are manufactured in China and Taiwan. Even if Yamaha were to consider the Vintage/classic market needs, they would have to have their suppliers agree to setting up a production line and as already pointed out in this thread, you would need to produce a significant volume to make such a move viable.
Needless to say that the cost of such a product would require taking a mortgage over your house. Not being negative .... but realistic.
I think another solution has been offered to Jon.
BTW the Indian tanks are NOT an option for a restoration project.
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Post by midlifecrisisrd on Sept 2, 2013 15:05:55 GMT 1
Hopefully Jon has found another route.
To me the best option is to get some one independent to Yam to make these exactly the same as the originals which will take a lot of cash up front but is feasible.
I work for a company that manufactures it's own products and I am amazed at our mark up that varies from 30 - 90% and that is without a middle man marking up again so a 200 quid product turns into 400 which is why Norbo gets exact throttle cables from the same manufacturer as Yam for half the price.
Sadly this prices things out of most peoples league.
Sorry if I came across negative and never posted on the other site but to be honest I was put off with the fact I had to register and that I am not in the market for one.
I personally would have been willing to purchase a good UK tank for him and ship it over.
Steve
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Post by simon5264 on Sept 2, 2013 22:44:23 GMT 1
There are quite a few companies out there who make tanks for many of the main street bikes.I would suggest most are outsorced.Try some of theese contacts. We for example a massive company(snap On) have items made in China and the quality is unreal.I recon with a little work you would find a company to undertake this task. Its pointless getting hung up on a genuine YAM part that in its day was made by Fred in his shed for yamaha, I have 25+ years in the race industry and we find the same issues time and time again.The original manufacturer have moved on and are only interested in the future not the past!!! I am not being negative but realistic. But good luck and fair game for trying.
There are many online here is an example send them a picture and get a quotehttp://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/388062004/motorcycle_fuel_tank.html
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Post by kevsypvs on Sept 2, 2013 22:48:41 GMT 1
cant blame the guy from trying good luck to him if he carrys on trying to get new tanks made
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mikeb
Weekend rider
Posts: 52
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Post by mikeb on Sept 2, 2013 22:49:32 GMT 1
I am planning on having one made in alloy
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Post by lb on Sept 3, 2013 5:32:54 GMT 1
Jon I think its great to see someone trying (didnt know that Norbo tried in the past) but uber props to you both. A shame there is some negativity,but I think you should keep on with it.At least get some real numbers of folks wanting to buy.That is a start. I like what Simon mentioned above & think China is the place to go to.Would be cool to know if the molds still do exist??If they do then that'd be a large saving in itself! If new ones need to be made,then Im afraid the cost of that would be too much. What I would like to look into is how these new blown plastic moto cross tanks,road bike tanks are made.If these could be made to fit inside an LC or 31K tank ala R1 R6 with a shell on outside(even if it means cutting the bottom out of steel tank to fit plastic tank inside)then that would be even better,no more worry about tanks rusting out,modern fuel safe & last a long time. Again,I think China is the place to look. If Jon & Norbo hooked up together,I think this could be made to happen.I really do hope either of you guys carries on with this.
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Post by Norbo on Sept 3, 2013 8:34:17 GMT 1
I already have a LC tank in to be copped and its been to 4 different places over the last 2 years. They wont a fortune to make the molds and its not just a case of getting them made they have to be correct . I could just say ok make them and lets se how they go and they wont fit or don't look quight right . they all have to be the same not just the mint sample they send you every one and they have to fit %100 as well . Its to late once you have shelled out A small fortune for moulding and to make a massive batch . one they have your money and they are made if they are not right they just wont reply to you any more they don't care they have your money . So you have to make sure the place that makes them can 1st be trusted and 2nd that they can do the job %100 its a massive out lay so fining a place to make them is not a problem finding a place you can trust to the CORRECT job and not a fortune is the problem, .
Im hearing back again from my bloke out there on a new place and if they can do the tank OK I will get them to make the 31K tank but its taken 2 years now so its not simple . I don't want to end up with a fortune in wrongly made tanks.
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Post by jollyjoiner on Sept 3, 2013 9:33:11 GMT 1
A big up to you Norbo for giving this a good go
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Post by simon5264 on Sept 3, 2013 18:03:12 GMT 1
I have made contact with a manufacturer in china who would be prepared to make them. No tooling costs after min order of 51 of each type. So what's would you pay for a brand new tank in paint?decals extra and I would have to supply samples of both tank and decals.
I am not going to take this on unless we see comitment from members.
So let me know what you would be prepared to pay so I can start the negotiations .
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Post by Norbo on Sept 3, 2013 18:32:18 GMT 1
yes I know but have you seen the quality of his work and if they are not %100 youll get lumbered with them . I have spoken to 23 places in china who already make tanks for other bikes but the quality of them would not do for most people in fact 1 place wash shocking and I got to see a sample from each place .
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Post by simon5264 on Sept 3, 2013 21:42:09 GMT 1
Well you either have faith or carry on wishing. At some point there will be no more so someone needs to take a gamble. I work for snap in tool and we get stuff made in china and were renowned for quality this contact is through our sorted. I don't need a tank just thought I would add some value to the post.
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Post by sunsetrider02 on Sept 4, 2013 12:45:31 GMT 1
A number of good points raised in this post.
Yes, we need to keep trying and every opportunity that someone can provide us with one should be looked at on its merits.
However the supplier must also understand that we need to see a proper sample before we can entrust them with our hard earned money. Any reputable business would accept this. The chinese are keen to do business...but they also know play hard ball. Norbo is right in that it would be foolish to order x number of tanks and paying up front only to find out that thay do not meet expectation. The Indian example is a good lesson wheras the tans looks good in picture and falls short in being close to the mark.
JohnW....is anything new happeningwith the potential for alloy tanks from the US?
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Post by midlifecrisisrd on Sept 4, 2013 14:02:35 GMT 1
A number of good points raised in this post. Yes, we need to keep trying and every opportunity that someone can provide us with one should be looked at on its merits. However the supplier must also understand that we need to see a proper sample before we can entrust them with our hard earned money. Any reputable business would accept this. The chinese are keen to do business...but they also know play hard ball. Norbo is right in that it would be foolish to order x number of tanks and paying up front only to find out that thay do not meet expectation. The Indian example is a good lesson wheras the tans looks good in picture and falls short in being close to the mark. JohnW....is anything new happeningwith the potential for alloy tanks from the US? Never mind alloy, did kenny (tsa) not look at having carbon ones made? Steve
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Post by simon5264 on Sept 4, 2013 22:18:16 GMT 1
Samples are hand made as just that a sample. The production run would be tooled up for a totally different product. This is probably why no one is happy with samples inc me I have had my input but I don't think there is a business understanding of how things work in china . You only need a letter of intent from the bank . When goods have been supplied then the transaction takes place. How do you think big multi national work they don't just send a cheque and wait for goods
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Post by airbraker on Sept 6, 2013 17:30:05 GMT 1
Legend wer building small batches but when I phoned them they said they wouldn't do anymore because of the lack of takers and they hung around on ebay for ages and people made them silly offers. I thought that these were a fairly reasonable copy and i would have bought one. I thought about asking if anybody else on here wanted one as I think they make batches of ten.
As for making a production batch I think this would require two pressings. Then a jig and a skilled welder to put the two halves together (am I right ?) The Chinese should pliss this I am baffled as to why they couldn't crack it. Sounds like Norbs has been all over it. I would be tempted to go to other bike manufacturers see what there supply route for tanks was bet there is just a couple of companies that do the pressings as has been stated in an earlier reply. I used to work in the aircraft industry we made airframe components. We used to press light alloy is light alloy an option or do we want to use steel ?
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