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Post by steeley on Aug 23, 2013 12:29:41 GMT 1
just had my oil pump back from Gary ,arrow on here.sent it mon 19 and the pump is back fri 23 and it looks brand new.gary has shimmed it for a little more oil as requested.thats what I call service.just need to get it on the bike. thank you Gary.
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Post by turbopresh on Aug 25, 2013 12:45:09 GMT 1
Thinking of using him myself, how hard are they to work on though? Wouldn't mind having a stab by myself..
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Post by arrow on Aug 25, 2013 13:37:59 GMT 1
Please feel free, although there is quite a bit to it. I made some tools for pushing the seals in. Its important especially with the tiny seal to use a tool just a couple of thou smaller than it. If this seal is fitted with the wrong tool it is very easily dished, this causes it to be too tight a fit on the piston causing rapid wear. The front seal is fitted after the plunger assembly is fitted, this way the side pin is not pushed through the new seal. Sometimes the main casting is scored in the bore, this reduces oil flow. I have had to tell a few people that the main casting is scrap and replace it with another one. Yamaha modified the camshaft on later pumps to prevent this from happening and I incorporate this mod on all the pumps I re-furb. Some time ago a developed a check to measure the cams for wear limit, at this time I don't know of anyone else that does this. Some camshafts are worn out of spec and others are hardly worn at all. I always de-burr the cams with a diamond tipped needle file. If the cam is worn then the pump cannot deliver the correct amount of oil at the 3/4~full throttle setting. The cams do not run in the 2T oil and therefore should be packed in grease, there is not much grease left in a 30 year old pump! Lots of pulley springs have wear on the coils (they rub together in use) if the wear is light and not concentrated in one spot then the spring is ok to use, if not I will replace it. Same with the plunger spring. The piston is resurfaced, but I only need to take off about 0.0002" (2 tenths of a thou) to do this. If the pump has been running a zero stroke for long enough the piston sometimes has a score mark and needs to be replaced. Some times the thrust washers are worn out and sometimes they are like new. The underside of the big washer normally has a heavy wear mark where it contacts the heel on the pulley, this upsets oiling at the lower rev range, I always remove the wear by lapping it off. The check valves always have some debris in them and many are passing. The steel balls can be discoloured and marked affecting the seal. I used to inspect the balls but this is not easy and takes time. I replace both balls in all the pumps as a matter of course, as well as scrubbing the hard rubber seats with a purpose made brush. All the work is done by hand, without the use of power tools. Although some stubbon screws are removed after cutting a slot in the heads with a dremel.
Someone once said (not on here) that all that is required is a couple of new seals, this is only a fraction of the oil pump re-furb service.
The complete job (uninterrupted) on an old pump takes about 3 hours of work.
HTH.
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Post by turbopresh on Aug 25, 2013 14:19:27 GMT 1
Wasn't expecting all the info mate.. thanks very much! Yeah theres a fair bit of work involved, I'd like to atleast attempt a refurb myself if for nothing else my self satisfaction lol I'd no doubt that it would be more than a few seals! Can you buy the internals from Yamaha? Don't seem to recall ever seeing a parts fiche for the oil pump assembly ..
I'd be happy as a happy thing playing with my micrometer screw gauge for 3 hours lol
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Post by arrow on Aug 25, 2013 16:39:27 GMT 1
Non of the internals except the seals are available from Yamaha and never have been. The outlet unions are available, don't know why that is? Springs and pulleys not available either. I have some excellent pre used parts, this is made clear to people if I have to replace certain items.
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Post by turbopresh on Aug 25, 2013 16:43:24 GMT 1
Obviously just a ploy by Yamaha to force you to buy an oil pump should it go out of service I suppose..
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Post by arrow on Aug 25, 2013 16:47:39 GMT 1
In the Haynes manual not much is said about the pump itself. It basically says its a non serviceable item. I had trouble with the 250e pump 4 years ago and studied the pumps in great detail so I knew exactly what made them tick.
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Post by Denzil on Aug 25, 2013 16:53:15 GMT 1
Send it to Arrow. His service is excellent, the pump would pass as a new one and more importantly you can put that to bed knowing that the pump is ok.
I don't see the point in trying to "have a go"and probably refurb it then after all the hard work of rebuilding your new engine running it and it seizing because the pump has not been set up properly. Arrow is the man and for a small fee the pump is sent back and it would pass as a new one easiy, it even comes with a spare gasket set and instructions on how to set it up. To me it is a no brainer. Oh BTW he is a really nice guy as well.
Denzil
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Post by Roofmonster on Aug 25, 2013 17:41:43 GMT 1
Send it to Arrow. His service is excellent, the pump would pass as a new one and more importantly you can put that to bed knowing that the pump is ok. I don't see the point in trying to "have a go"and probably refurb it then after all the hard work of rebuilding your new engine running it and it seizing because the pump has not been set up properly. Arrow is the man and for a small fee the pump is sent back and it would pass as a new one easiy, it even comes with a spare gasket set and instructions on how to set it up. To me it is a no brainer. Oh BTW he is a really nice guy as well. Denzil +1 Send it to Arrow mate |
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Post by turbopresh on Aug 25, 2013 18:01:29 GMT 1
But then I miss out on the fun of taking it apart lol I'm a serial dismantler..  will sleep on it and see how I feel.. to be fair if I take it apart and find several bits need replaced the money it would cost to salvage these from another oil pump.. ie. Buying a 2nd for parts with no gaurantee anything I buy would contain serviceable spares, could well be grossly more expensive than a service from arrow.. no doubt.. he seems like a top bloke  |
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Post by arrow on Aug 25, 2013 18:21:00 GMT 1
If you like taking things apart, as I do, try to figure out how to check the cams for wear limit. This is a vital part of a good working pump.
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Post by steeley on Aug 25, 2013 18:45:27 GMT 1
gary ,have put the oil pump on today. it was early so didn't run the bike till about 1 till 1.30.i plan to give it a run in the morning with the old video camera on to get a bit of footage posted up.so far its looking very good.guys don't mess about with these things yourselves send it off and get it sorted by some one who has done and researched the job.these pumps are old now and how many folks spend a shed load of money on an engine rebuild and don't give the pump a second thought.me for one I have built loads of these types of engine and have only checked the stroke and cable adjustment.i have been lucky because there is a bit to go wrong in them. cheers Gary.
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Post by arrow on Aug 25, 2013 18:50:09 GMT 1
Thanks for that Steely. The re-furb of the pumps represents my very best work. The worst think that can happen if the pump fails at the wrong time is the rider could loose his life so I have to get everything exactly right.
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Post by thehut on Aug 25, 2013 19:23:29 GMT 1
send it to arrow. mine came back like new.  |
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Post by arrow on Aug 25, 2013 19:30:02 GMT 1
Turbopresh, re Pm's and the above photo, that's an all Alluminium top casting.
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Post by turbopresh on Aug 25, 2013 19:35:54 GMT 1
Got you mate.. looks to be the same as mine..
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Post by arrow on Aug 25, 2013 19:36:40 GMT 1
No, yours is the later type.
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dougb
L plate rider.
Posts: 39 
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Post by dougb on Aug 25, 2013 22:31:48 GMT 1
Arrows rebuld service is excellent......very worth every penny !
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Post by turbopresh on Aug 26, 2013 1:30:42 GMT 1
Flip sake Doug.. didn't know you were lurking in here lol I've mine in bits in the kitchen atm |
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dougb
L plate rider.
Posts: 39
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Post by dougb on Aug 26, 2013 22:32:52 GMT 1
I like to lurk :-)
Arrow did an ace job on my pump.....so good im getting a few more together from the tdr's.
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Post by turbopresh on Aug 26, 2013 23:05:20 GMT 1
Man certainly knows his stuff.. credit where it's due, he has these pumps well sussed!
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Post by arrow on Aug 26, 2013 23:34:09 GMT 1
Cheers Guy's. The pump service came about by total accident. I had done s few jobs for people (just new seals basically), but one guy put a post on here saying I was offering the re-furb service. I wasn't, but I thought why not? My pumps are all over the planet now. As long as people are still happy with my work, the service continues....
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Post by turbopresh on Aug 26, 2013 23:40:38 GMT 1
You should get a wee site done up for yourself lad.. I could throw you a few pages together if you havent already... I designed this site a while back for the print shop I work/worked in: www.cathedralgraphics.com |
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Post by arrow on Aug 26, 2013 23:41:32 GMT 1
Pm sent.
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Post by turbopresh on Aug 27, 2013 0:30:36 GMT 1
Ok so I pulled mine apart.. thats my need for destruction quenched.. you guys have convinced me arrow is the man for the job.. so shes in a jiffy bag waiting to be posted off in the morning.. |
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Post by arrow on Aug 27, 2013 0:48:31 GMT 1
Thanks for that dude, I will check all the parts, re-build and send the pump back in A1 condition - as always.
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Post by turbopresh on Sept 3, 2013 14:30:27 GMT 1
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Post by arrow on Sept 3, 2013 14:57:24 GMT 1
Thanks for that, happy to help.
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Post by daveo on Sept 26, 2013 18:48:38 GMT 1
I, too, have made use of Arrow's excellent oil pump refurbishing service. Pump looks like new, and, most importantly, has been hand-built to exacting specifications that more than likely make it better than a factory part.
Highly recommended, Thanks Gary.
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Post by Denzil on Sept 26, 2013 19:46:37 GMT 1
Gary, top man.
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will sleep on it and see how I feel.. to be fair if I take it apart and find several bits need replaced the money it would cost to salvage these from another oil pump.. ie. Buying a 2nd for parts with no gaurantee anything I buy would contain serviceable spares, could well be grossly more expensive than a service from arrow.. no doubt.. he seems like a top bloke 
