webbo
Thrash Merchant
Posts: 393
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Post by webbo on Apr 1, 2012 20:28:32 GMT 1
I have serious doubts about my oil pump! I've been rebuilding a RD350LC 4L0 and bought it with a blown motor. It looked like it had run dry but don't really know much history on the bike. I have rebuilt the oil pump thanks to the forum, and checked the threads of which there are 5 thanks to another poor formite's misfortune. It's got 1M1 on the pulley.Is this correct? Can you set the oil pump off the bike to get the correct gap or do you have to fit it? As I have set it off bike but it changes once fitted so there is no gap. this is a very early model pre tie bar.
Cheers.
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Post by marsbar350 on Apr 1, 2012 20:33:50 GMT 1
arrows the guy for oil pumps im sure he will be along to help you out ;D
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Post by flames on Apr 1, 2012 20:36:19 GMT 1
i believe you have to fit the pump and have it running to set it.it has to be runnin to measure the gap when its at its widest point.
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Post by marsbar350 on Apr 1, 2012 20:43:45 GMT 1
you can set it by the shims put in it off the bike the alter throttle cable to match up with markings on the pulley mines set at.32.iirc yams setting is .15? after my experiences im being careful the bike runs really well even with this much oil goin thru 800ml to 210 miles cheaper buying a bit more oil than an engine
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Post by flames on Apr 1, 2012 20:55:05 GMT 1
i thought the pump was at its minimum stroke at its furthest measurement? if you have fitted a thicker shim does this not mean you have cut the amount of oil going thro?
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Post by marsbar350 on Apr 1, 2012 20:58:29 GMT 1
im more than likely talking crap a little knowledge is dangerous arrows the man for pumps
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Post by flames on Apr 1, 2012 21:04:22 GMT 1
well im no expert either so......as mars says,wait for arrow or maybe pm him.
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Post by arrow on Apr 1, 2012 21:55:24 GMT 1
Dudes, more shims = more oil. The pump is easily gapped on or off the bike. Webbo, it just sounds like you are moving away from the setting position (plunger all the way out) when you put the pump back on the bike. Once the shims are set only wear will alter that setting. The minimum stroke position is the base setting where the pulley is acting fully as a stop, not alowing the plunger to decend fully into the 2 cams inside the pump. Full bore allows the plunger to run full depth in these cams, increasing its stroke.
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Post by marsbar350 on Apr 1, 2012 22:15:48 GMT 1
;D Dudes, more shims = more oil. The pump is easily gaped on or off the bike. Webbo, it just sounds like you are moving away from the setting position (plunger all the way out) when you put the pump back on the bike. Once the shims are set only wear will alter that setting. The minimum stroke position is the base setting where the pulley is acting fully as a stop, not alowing the plunger to decend fully into the 2 cams inside the pump. Full bore allows the plunger to run full depth in these cams, increasing its stroke.
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webbo
Thrash Merchant
Posts: 393
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Post by webbo on Apr 1, 2012 23:11:23 GMT 1
Ok, I didn't quite understand all you said Arrow but I have set the pump off bike and installed more shims than I need but still when I fit the pump I get no gap at all, dispite turning the motor over to achive max stoke on the pump! I am obviously concerned as the motor has blown itself up previously and I don't want all my hard work and money going the same way. I'm considering blanking the pump off and going premix!! What you think?
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Post by arrow on Apr 1, 2012 23:14:47 GMT 1
I think something is very wrong if the stroke is not there when the pump is on the bike and there when off the bike. Are you turning the engine over enough ? For example the pump takes a long time to turn over if you are only using the kickstart.
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Post by arrow on Apr 1, 2012 23:18:00 GMT 1
With the pump in furthest out position fit it to the bike and tell me what happens ?
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Post by nikfubar on Apr 1, 2012 23:38:47 GMT 1
As said it will make no difference if the pumps fitted or not but it takes a hell of a lot of turns to complete one stroke of the pump so it's far easier to do it off the bike when setting the shim stack. set the gap as specified. Did you refurbish the pump with new seals etc as my thread rdlccrazy.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=info&action=display&thread=12280
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Post by arrow on Apr 1, 2012 23:43:08 GMT 1
I'm thinking webbo may have an issue with the incorrect worm.
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Post by nikfubar on Apr 1, 2012 23:47:48 GMT 1
I'm thinking webbo may have an issue with the incorrect worm. Wot you mean 350 worm on a 250 pump
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Post by arrow on Apr 1, 2012 23:51:27 GMT 1
Or even the other way round. 30 years on with these bike anything can happen as we have seen recently.
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Post by flames on Apr 2, 2012 8:01:35 GMT 1
Dudes, more shims = more oil. The pump is easily gapped on or off the bike. Webbo, it just sounds like you are moving away from the setting position (plunger all the way out) when you put the pump back on the bike. Once the shims are set only wear will alter that setting. The minimum stroke position is the base setting where the pulley is acting fully as a stop, not alowing the plunger to decend fully into the 2 cams inside the pump. Full bore allows the plunger to run full depth in these cams, increasing its stroke. that makes most sense because the plunger is forced out when you open the throttle.my haynes manual states its @ minimum stroke when the plunger is out.i took ages tryin to get my head round that and in the end guessed the pump was mor technical than i could understand.i apologise for my duff info guys,and to mars for suggesting he may have it the wrong way round.
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Post by arrow on Apr 2, 2012 13:04:16 GMT 1
Hi flames, the plunger never goes further out just further in when you open the throttle. Its the inward stroke that actually pumps the oil to the motor. The outward stroke fills the revolving barrel with oil ready for the next down stroke.
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Post by arrow on Apr 2, 2012 13:15:48 GMT 1
Here is what happens; At tick over the pin in the photo rides on the top of the 2 cams (top and bottom in the photo) and decends off the cams only by what you set the gap to. At full bore when the throttle operated pulley effectively moves back the pin rides the full depth of the cams. One cam for each cylinder.
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Post by flames on Apr 2, 2012 13:28:57 GMT 1
i seeeee.thanks arrow,that makes a lot more sense now.think mine is set about right,(all luck and no judgement tho) tho there seems to be an awful lot of blue smoke from the pipes,tho this may be down to the fact it has only been run at idle......with the odd throttle blip of course.will keep an eye on it,but thanks again for the info.
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Post by arrow on Apr 2, 2012 13:35:12 GMT 1
It proberbly needs its throat cleared, on the road. Mine's the same.
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webbo
Thrash Merchant
Posts: 393
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Post by webbo on Apr 2, 2012 17:23:47 GMT 1
Thanks for your help Arrow. Looks like I need a new pump if anyones got one, might see how much a new one is?
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Post by marsbar350 on Apr 2, 2012 17:29:24 GMT 1
when i start mine in the garage within minutes.me eyes and nose are running! better too much than not enough why do you need a new pump?is it seized or a 250?
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Post by arrow on Apr 2, 2012 17:34:03 GMT 1
Thanks for your help Arrow. Looks like I need a new pump if anyones got one, might see how much a new one is? Not available from Yamaha anymore, last time it was £177
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webbo
Thrash Merchant
Posts: 393
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Post by webbo on Apr 2, 2012 20:13:12 GMT 1
I need a pump because it looks like either a 250/350 mash up or it's been mucked about with. I don't trust it after rebuilding the engine. Arrow, I think the LC pump superceeds to a YPVS one, about £130 and still available. Will see if I can find a good reliable s/h one first. Cheers
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Post by flames on Apr 2, 2012 21:26:20 GMT 1
just a thought,but have you checked to make sure the worm drive is actually turning?
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webbo
Thrash Merchant
Posts: 393
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Post by webbo on Apr 2, 2012 21:54:49 GMT 1
Yep, defo turning.
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