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Post by tunneruk on Dec 11, 2011 12:35:16 GMT 1
Hi guys,
Another quick question. My project 250 LC wasn't fitted with a thermostat when I stripped it down.
I completely understand the principles of having a thermostat but is it common to run an LC without one? Is it the 'done thing' or should I fit a new one?
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Post by oldelsieboy on Dec 11, 2011 12:53:56 GMT 1
Hi guys, Another quick question. My project 250 LC wasn't fitted with a thermostat when I stripped it down. I completely understand the principles of having a thermostat but is it common to run an LC without one? Is it the 'done thing' or should I fit a new one? AFAIK UK market LC's (4L0/1) were never fitted with them as standard. It is possible to retro fit one with a bit of machining to the top coolant inlet cover tho'. OEB |
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Post by tunneruk on Dec 11, 2011 14:16:34 GMT 1
Hi guys, Another quick question. My project 250 LC wasn't fitted with a thermostat when I stripped it down. I completely understand the principles of having a thermostat but is it common to run an LC without one? Is it the 'done thing' or should I fit a new one? AFAIK UK market LC's (4L0/1) were never fitted with them as standard. It is possible to retro fit one with a bit of machining to the top coolant inlet cover tho'. OEB That's exactly what I wanted to hear! Cheers ;D |
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Post by Norbo on Dec 12, 2011 13:33:27 GMT 1
no point mate . they dont get hot any way .
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1ge
L plate rider.
Posts: 42
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Post by 1ge on Jan 3, 2012 18:51:24 GMT 1
No lc/ypvs were EVER fitted with thermo's,only the 500's were.
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Post by tunneruk on Jan 3, 2012 19:21:49 GMT 1
No lc/ypvs were EVER fitted with thermo's,only the 500's were. So why do they have a thermostat housing? |
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chez
Thrash Merchant
Posts: 336
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Post by chez on Jan 3, 2012 20:14:55 GMT 1
my ypvs 31k has a thermostat  |
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Post by Tone on Jan 3, 2012 20:30:07 GMT 1
1ge.
As chez say's the YPVS 350's were fitted with a thermostat as standard.
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Post by oldelsieboy on Jan 3, 2012 20:46:21 GMT 1
No lc/ypvs were EVER fitted with thermo's,only the 500's were. So why is it listed on the LC2 parts fiche?  OEB |
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Post by rich on Jan 3, 2012 21:15:00 GMT 1
Yep, all the YPVS bikes have a stat as standard and 4L0/1 LCs don't! Bear in mind if you do decide to machine the housing and retrofit a stat to an LC, then you will need to drill a small bypass hole in the body of the stat.
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lcbob
L plate rider.
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Post by lcbob on Jan 3, 2012 21:41:35 GMT 1
Yep my31k has a thermostat.
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Post by billy on Jan 4, 2012 0:18:24 GMT 1
Yep, all the YPVS bikes have a stat as standard and 4L0/1 LCs don't! Bear in mind if you do decide to machine the housing and retrofit a stat to an LC, then you will need to drill a small bypass hole in the body of the stat. Do you really need to drill a hole if installing a thermostat in an LC? I thought the LC thermostat housing had a bypass hole originally? It was a long time ago I looked at it but I'm almost 100% sure sure there is a bypass hole originally, it's located somewhere around the rear of the housing, near the hole for the M8 bolt.  I think the actual hole (which is something like 2,5 mm diam) may be in the head tbh, and the thermo-housing has the bypass channel/groove in it, leading the bypass water towards the top of the (originally non-existing) thermostat. Norbs, that's the problem with LC's, they take forever to warm up which, if you're unlucky, can be slmost as bad as overheating.  Pistons goes hot and expands fast, but the barrels stay too cold, which makes the piston gap too small, leading to a nip up. |
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Post by Tone on Jan 4, 2012 0:41:38 GMT 1
Isn't this what they refer to as a cold seizure ? If you look at some of the pictures of the Pro Am bikes you will see they had the rad covers taped up to help with warming up. www.rd350lc.net/4L0winterCooling.JPG |
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1ge
L plate rider.
Posts: 42
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Post by 1ge on Jan 4, 2012 2:36:24 GMT 1
Sorry,my mistake!i meant lc models,thats correct that 31k had them! Dont I feel THE dick!ha!
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Post by bare on Jan 4, 2012 19:23:59 GMT 1
Not entirely accurate... Other market LC's ..were... fitted with thermostats.
Perhaps Yama thought that it was unecessary for the typical buyer in the UK :-)
Japan market ones certainly had thermos fitted.. but Japanese customers are famously fastidious.
Thermostats Are useful as too low a temp is problematic for engine life as well
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Post by oldelsieboy on Jan 4, 2012 19:58:31 GMT 1
Not entirely accurate... Other market LC's ..were... fitted with thermostats. Perhaps Yama thought that it was unecessary for the typical buyer in the UK :-) Japan market ones certainly had thermos fitted.. but Japanese customers are famously fastidious. Thermostats Are useful as too low a temp is problematic for engine life as well Think youll find I did state UK LC models were not fitted with thermostats ;D AFAIK UK market LC's (4L0/1) were never fitted with them as standard. It is possible to retro fit one with a bit of machining to the top coolant inlet cover tho'. OEB |
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Post by Delbert on Jan 4, 2012 21:19:46 GMT 1
Yep, all the YPVS bikes have a stat as standard and 4L0/1 LCs don't! Bear in mind if you do decide to machine the housing and retrofit a stat to an LC, then you will need to drill a small bypass hole in the body of the stat. Norbs, that's the problem with LC's, they take forever to warm up which, if you're unlucky, can be slmost as bad as overheating. Pistons goes hot and expands fast, but the barrels stay too cold, which makes the piston gap too small, leading to a nip up. Not much chance of that happening to mine then with all that slap ;D |
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1ge
L plate rider.
Posts: 42
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Post by 1ge on Jan 5, 2012 12:39:57 GMT 1
So do jap market lc's have a machined top housing to take thermo?and why does it+ make no mention of it on micro-fische?
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Post by oldelsieboy on Jan 5, 2012 18:31:59 GMT 1
So do jap market lc's have a machined top housing to take thermo?and why does it+ make no mention of it on micro-fische? Do you have a copy of the Jap market fiche then? OEB |
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Post by stanlc7189 on Jan 5, 2012 18:42:33 GMT 1
Don' bother worrying about a stat on an LC. They never had them and run perfectly well without them and you don't have the potential of the stat not opening and the bike overheating.
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Post by stanlc7189 on Jan 5, 2012 18:45:59 GMT 1
Norbs, that's the problem with LC's, they take forever to warm up which, if you're unlucky, can be slmost as bad as overheating. Pistons goes hot and expands fast, but the barrels stay too cold, which makes the piston gap too small, leading to a nip up.
------------------------
That's true, which is why it's important to gently warm up an LC, not thrape it from the off,
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Post by arrow on Jan 5, 2012 19:34:20 GMT 1
"That's true, which is why it's important to gently warm up an LC, not thrape it from the off"As should be done with all engines of course. None of the manufacturing tolerances are correct until the engine is upto full operating temperature. 
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Post by arrow on Jan 5, 2012 19:44:29 GMT 1
I don't much understand this slow warm up with the Lc's. I also have a 250e, the Lc is much quicker to warm up in the pots and in the gear box in particular, the latter Prob. due to the 'hot rod' effect of the coolant pipe.
The Lc does not get as hot as the air cooled bike though, particularly in the winter, this is when a thermostat would be of some benefit. The air cooled is also better at handling stop/start/ traffic jams in the summer.
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1ge
L plate rider.
Posts: 42
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Post by 1ge on Jan 6, 2012 9:49:02 GMT 1
Dont have a jap market micro-fische,but have seen jap-market lc's,and never seen a different top housing?but the the difference would be inside,and never seen inside.we are on about lc's,not rz's?
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Post by robin on Jan 6, 2012 10:10:24 GMT 1
I fitted a thermostat to my 250LC a couple of years ago, there was a picture of a Jap Fische or service sheet on Alex's old site, lost forever now, and it did show a thermostat for the Jap market, but when I was looking at machining the cover to take the stat, there was a possibility to fit a thermostat, "minus the rubber seal", with out having to machine the housing! -  The flange on my stat was only a fraction of a mm thicker than the gasket between head and thermostat cover, and the diameter of the flange would have sat inside the gasket hole...so the stat would have been clamped in place nicely, but I did not want to take the option of manufacturing a slightly thicker gasket - or have it fail, and so I opted for machining the housing instead, still minus the rubber seal, as my stat did not come with one, small bypass hole was already drilled in to the stat when I got it, and it has given no problems, now it has a controlled warm up - to me a stat makes perfect sense  do cars have them fitted, or not fitted depending on geographic location.? Hope this helps   Robin |
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Post by tunneruk on Jan 6, 2012 10:20:24 GMT 1
I fitted a thermostat to my 250LC a couple of years ago, there was a picture of a Jap Fische on Alex's old site, lost forever now, but while I was looking at machining the cover to take the stat, there was a possibility to fit a thermostat, "minus the rubber seal", with out having to machine the housing! - Gasp! The flange on my stat was only a fraction of a mm thicker than the gasket between head and thermostat cover, and the diameter of the flange would have sat inside the gasket hole...so the stat would have been clamped in place nicely, but I did not want to take the option of manufacturing a slightly thicker gasket, and opted for machining the housing instead. Hope this helps Robin Well done that man! However, you've not told us how the bike ran after you fitted it? |
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Post by robin on Jan 6, 2012 11:02:03 GMT 1
I fitted a thermostat to my 250LC a couple of years ago, there was a picture of a Jap Fische etc.... Robin Well done that man! However, you've not told us how the bike ran after you fitted it? original post modified... |
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1ge
L plate rider.
Posts: 42
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Post by 1ge on Jan 6, 2012 11:09:51 GMT 1
Yes it duz fit well,fair play,never seen a thermo in a lc(4l1-4lo).
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Post by arrow on Jan 6, 2012 17:01:46 GMT 1
robin, all cars run 'stats, unless anyone drives a model 'T' Ford or 'summat. The main point here is you can run a much larger radiator and coolant volume when a 'stat is fitted. The motor will not be over cooled in the winter, as the coolant mainly just circulates around the head/ block and heater matrix. Conversley in the height of summer the cooling capacity is so great (high flow, big pipes, big rad.) that the engine can stand in traffic for many hours without issues, with the intermitent help of an electric fan of course.
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mikem
Weekend rider
My Noodle
Posts: 92
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Post by mikem on Jan 13, 2012 0:24:04 GMT 1
When I had my 350 LC from new years ago I wanted to make it a bit quicker without making it look hyped up or attracting the fuzz with noise.
I did much checking and reading and read a review on 350 LC exhausts...Micron best at top end (just)...Allspeeds better bottom, middle and only just off the Microns for top end... and not quite so 'fecking loud!!!'
I matched all ports (NO polishing though).
Then I spoke to Stan (the man) Stephens who told me that the VERY first thing that I should have done was to fit a thermostat.
Reason, they run TOO cool.
If all you 350 LC owners without thermostats take a look at their (std) temperature guages you will see that about 1/4 inch beyond where the needle usually comes to rest when warmed up is a little mark on the dial. It doesn't stand out too much but you should see it.
When you fit a thermostat the needle then climbs to where the mark is. Yamaha put it there for a reason.
My take on it, as I've done a fair bit of engine tuning over the years, is that any engine needs to run at it's optimum temperature. It it runs too cool then the parts will not expand to the intended tolerances (pistons etc). This allows for lower piston seal=lower power and higher wear.
As racing engines are under much higher loads, they will run hotter and might not need a thermostat. Road use...a must!
There is another 'good thing' about a thermostat...Warm Up time is much shorter.
Hope I don't sound like a know all.
Mike
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I think the actual hole (which is something like 2,5 mm diam) may be in the head tbh, and the thermo-housing has the bypass channel/groove in it, leading the bypass water towards the top of the (originally non-existing) thermostat. 
Pistons goes hot and expands fast, but the barrels stay too cold, which makes the piston gap too small, leading to a nip up. 
do cars have them fitted, or not fitted depending on geographic location.?