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Post by spondon440 on Jan 30, 2024 9:11:39 GMT 1
I think at £4950 that bike on ebay is a great buy, it runs pretty well, has the odd issue (I have the guts out of an LC clock if he were to buy it he can have), do a rolling resto on it while you use it. I think your wrong about top end bikes, the market is definitely subdued and cautious because of many factors, inflation, wars, brexit it goes on, people are still buying cars, bikes etc new and they aint getting any cheaper, people are also still buying classic bikes and they are still paying good money for them, bottom line is that it still costs shitloads to get a bike to look and be as sorted as mine and not everyone can build them. I only have mine advertised on here and its famously poor for selling bikes here because everyone already has one, mine is only on here because I'm currently spending on my Laverda like its going out of fashion, I sort of promised myself one in one out and lied, currently I'm building a Laverda 750 SF3 and a Suzuki X7, both bikes were absolute turds but both will be minters, I have no doubt that unless someone gets us involved in world war 3 (and they are doing their very best to do so) prices will recover fairly quickly, if we get a war non of us will need to worry about bike prices. Masonmart, does that mean you'd sell your F1 for £2k ? I've never had an actual powervalve. Andy
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Post by dusty350 on Jan 30, 2024 9:16:46 GMT 1
Totally agree Andy
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Post by masonmart on Jan 30, 2024 10:12:47 GMT 1
Andy, I have spent £10k + on my F1 on top of the purchase price and have ended with with a very nice naked bitza F1 with LC2 front end and F2 pipes, I still have a lot of spending to do on a future project to get it to the quality I wanted. The £2k mentioned wasn't a reflection on what I'd sell it for, I didn't buy to sell so a sell price doesn't exist. The £2k is roughly what I'd pay now for my boxes of bits, mostly diabolical in terms of quality. If you look at what is happening now in the real world there are few specific bikes that are still maintaining premium prices and it isn't Yamaha 2Ts even the iconic and superb LC. That is a reflection on what is actually happening not my opinion. I know the real value of my classics now and the reality is tragic for owners. There are F2s now struggling to sell at round £5k (£4k complete and running from Germany) and nothing around £7-8k + is selling on ebay. Remember that I'd been in the market to buy for a while and, even now, I'm looking for my next project which will be a complete bike with a price based on quality, I see buying bits to restore (not necessarily to make specials from) as insanity at current prices.
The market has gone from an inflationary bubble that had reached an usustainable state but, as always, is going into over-correction. I really hope it won't last but my opinion is that it may have years to go yet. There is a serious lack of money around and bikes are not as such a priority as surviving? All I'm trying to do is give a fair opinion on the realities of the market but only the market will be correct.
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Post by Robbieben on Jan 30, 2024 11:19:51 GMT 1
I buy bikes in Europe for half what they are priced at in the UK and in general they are clean tidy runners. Yes, its an import and the clocks need to be changed to MPH clocks but I have plenty to work with when I'm buying bikes for less than £2K including tax and import costs.
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Post by liffy16 on Jan 30, 2024 14:28:25 GMT 1
I buy bikes in Europe for half what they are priced at in the UK and in general they are clean tidy runners. Yes, its an import and the clocks need to be changed to MPH clocks but I have plenty to work with when I'm buying bikes for less than £2K including tax and import costs. Are there still plenty of lcs in Germany or is that supply drying up now ?
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Post by masonmart on Jan 30, 2024 14:55:04 GMT 1
The German bikes are restricted but can be reversed if not done.
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Post by reedpete on Jan 30, 2024 15:01:00 GMT 1
Not as many LCs in Europe as there were but still enough…( look beyond Germany too… ) ..the new import rules and restrictions on ‘man with a van’ also having an impact but there are still bikes out there. I suppose the problem for the majority is that access to those bikes is restrict to those with contacts and the knowledge to get them here and on the nova system. Everyone else has to pay the euro price plus the profit of those who do this trade.
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Post by reedpete on Jan 30, 2024 15:08:23 GMT 1
Just looked at the relisted advertisement for the bike mentioned by the OP. So it’s a non matching 4L1… with a 350 conversion… Is that new info? Surely a tad shy of 5k is a lot of dosh for what it is?
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Post by elsiefan on Jan 30, 2024 17:14:00 GMT 1
Looks like it's been relisted again and is now just an engine. Cases on original ad showed 4LO and this one is 4L1, but they look the same. Something's not quite right somewhere.
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Post by spondon440 on Jan 30, 2024 22:52:53 GMT 1
Andy, I have spent £10k + on my F1 on top of the purchase price and have ended with with a very nice naked bitza F1 with LC2 front end and F2 pipes, I still have a lot of spending to do on a future project to get it to the quality I wanted. The £2k mentioned wasn't a reflection on what I'd sell it for, I didn't buy to sell so a sell price doesn't exist. The £2k is roughly what I'd pay now for my boxes of bits, mostly diabolical in terms of quality. If you look at what is happening now in the real world there are few specific bikes that are still maintaining premium prices and it isn't Yamaha 2Ts even the iconic and superb LC. That is a reflection on what is actually happening not my opinion. I know the real value of my classics now and the reality is tragic for owners. There are F2s now struggling to sell at round £5k (£4k complete and running from Germany) and nothing around £7-8k + is selling on ebay. Remember that I'd been in the market to buy for a while and, even now, I'm looking for my next project which will be a complete bike with a price based on quality, I see buying bits to restore (not necessarily to make specials from) as insanity at current prices. The market has gone from an inflationary bubble that had reached an usustainable state but, as always, is going into over-correction. I really hope it won't last but my opinion is that it may have years to go yet. There is a serious lack of money around and bikes are not as such a priority as surviving? All I'm trying to do is give a fair opinion on the realities of the market but only the market will be correct. I don't agree pal, but its all opinions isn't it.
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Post by masonmart on Jan 31, 2024 1:32:14 GMT 1
Definitely not all opinion Andy, I hope that I don't work that way; it's hopefully predominantly fact with any opinions formed on that basis. Responses on that basis are always welcome, I'm always happy to be corrected .
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Post by arrdy350 on Jan 31, 2024 8:06:31 GMT 1
I agree with Spondon440 that the PV looks a good buy a that price. I know the OP was asking about the LC but at Mecum Auctions a couple of days ago someone payed $42,000 for a mint KH750 which is a new world record and then yesterday another KH 750 went for $50,000 before commission 🤯 which was ground up resto but had few bits wrong with it. Also a JDM Z1 model was sold for $85,000 but their was a so much no right about it that the buyer bailed out of the sale. So I am not sure the market is dire just yet. Sorry for the thread hijack. To the OP I would wait till another LC comes up for sale on here it would be the best place to buy one 👍
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Post by masonmart on Jan 31, 2024 8:53:07 GMT 1
As I said RD, there are specific bikes that are still fetching good prices but they are very few and far between. For example have a look at good Aprilia RS250's. I've tried to sell my bikes but little interest even down at maybe 50% of the bubble price. 80's Yams aren't looking premium bikes and I personally wouldn't like to be relying on the money from selling one. I'm gobsmacked at KH750's fetching such insane prices as they weren't even a great bike and have been on ebay for fractions of the prices you mentioned. I was offered a 500 Mach 1 (much better bike for me) built from new parts for £12.5k a couple of years back but instead bought an Avenger similarly built from new parts and late last year couldn't sell it. Last year I could have bought a very nice Goldie for £12k.Does anybody genuinely feel that theres a good market at the moment? The OP should just hang on.
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Post by reedpete on Jan 31, 2024 8:58:02 GMT 1
Definitely not all opinion Andy, I hope that I don't work that way; it's hopefully predominantly fact with any opinions formed on that basis. Responses on that basis are always welcome, I'm always happy to be corrected . Mason, several things going on here….I think your comments are correct for the mid market bikes… those that are susceptible to the general economic winds that blowing…both people needing to sell ( at almost any cost) and those who were looking to buy an entry level bike but are now uncertain. yet project bikes … what would have been considered real dogs are also selling well and surprising prices.. folks just wanting something now even if they’ll pay more in the long run. Then there’s the top of the market bikes, bought by folks who won’t be fussed about a mere 10k+, we really don’t see many ‘collector grade’ bikes for sale.. and definitely not on eBay… that’s not the route to market. Those bikes still change hands for strong money. Those aren’t eBay bikes… EBay just has some expensive bikes that just shouldn’t be.. but rolled in glitter by dealers generally looking to catch the unwary impulsive buyer who walked into a showroom. And parts prices are almost as high as ever…. so in my opinion it’s a complex market with segments doing a variety of different things.
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Post by JonW on Jan 31, 2024 9:00:04 GMT 1
Definitely not all opinion Andy, I hope that I don't work that way; it's hopefully predominantly fact with any opinions formed on that basis. Responses on that basis are always welcome, I'm always happy to be corrected . Mason, several things going on here….I think your comments are correct for the mid market bikes… those that are susceptible to the general economic winds that blowing…both people needing to sell ( at almost any cost) and those who were looking to buy an entry level bike but are now uncertain. yet project bikes … what would have been considered real dogs are also selling well and surprising prices.. folks just wanting something now even if they’ll pay more in the long run. Then there’s the top of the market bikes, bought by folks who won’t be fussed about a mere 10k+, we really don’t see many ‘collector grade’ bikes for sale.. and definitely not on eBay… that’s not the route to market. Those bikes still change hands for strong money. Those aren’t eBay bikes… EBay just has some expensive bikes that just shouldn’t be.. but rolled in glitter by dealers generally looking to catch the unwary impulsive buyer who walked into a showroom. And parts prices are almost as high as ever…. so in my opinion it’s a complex market with segments doing a variety of different things. Agree Pete. IMHO People will always overpay for a project. They think they know better than everyone else and can do it up cheaper, they find they cant.
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Post by Robbieben on Jan 31, 2024 11:21:57 GMT 1
I buy bikes in Europe for half what they are priced at in the UK and in general they are clean tidy runners. Yes, its an import and the clocks need to be changed to MPH clocks but I have plenty to work with when I'm buying bikes for less than £2K including tax and import costs. Are there still plenty of lcs in Germany or is that supply drying up now ? Not as many now as there were, a lot are over here now. I have 3 contacts in Germany and 2 in Holland who keep their eyes out for bikes I'm looking for. I've brought more early Honda CB750's and Suzuki GSXR slabbies & GS's than anything, I can buy these and move them on very quickly without having to do more than get a V5 for them.
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Post by Robbieben on Jan 31, 2024 11:39:00 GMT 1
Definitely not all opinion Andy, I hope that I don't work that way; it's hopefully predominantly fact with any opinions formed on that basis. Responses on that basis are always welcome, I'm always happy to be corrected . Mason, several things going on here….I think your comments are correct for the mid market bikes… those that are susceptible to the general economic winds that blowing…both people needing to sell ( at almost any cost) and those who were looking to buy an entry level bike but are now uncertain. yet project bikes … what would have been considered real dogs are also selling well and surprising prices.. folks just wanting something now even if they’ll pay more in the long run. Then there’s the top of the market bikes, bought by folks who won’t be fussed about a mere 10k+, we really don’t see many ‘collector grade’ bikes for sale.. and definitely not on eBay… that’s not the route to market. Those bikes still change hands for strong money. Those aren’t eBay bikes… EBay just has some expensive bikes that just shouldn’t be.. but rolled in glitter by dealers generally looking to catch the unwary impulsive buyer who walked into a showroom. And parts prices are almost as high as ever…. so in my opinion it’s a complex market with segments doing a variety of different things. Have to agree with you Pete, I've personally never sold a bike on e-bay, a few parts is all I sell. Mostly I sell through word of mouth to repeat customers thats how I make decent money, far better than what I see on e-bay for bikes I have sold. Using e-bay for reference as to values is pointless IMHO, what sells well is not what is generally on e-bay at over inflated prices for mostly poor offerings.
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Post by spondon440 on Jan 31, 2024 21:08:53 GMT 1
Its worse than that, the tax man is now all over ebay, and they informthe tax man of anyone doing over £1000 per year because they have to, Ikeep copies of every expense in building a bike, if anyone thinks I have a business they will find its a shit one that loses money on everything it does.
I recently sold my 1971 Alfa spider on car and classics, I put a reserve of £20k on it and it did £30K, nice surprise but what a fabulous media for selling on, very professional and not that expensive, the guy that bought it was getting three alfas all from the same era, a 1750 coupe, a spider and a berlina and was spending around £100K on the three so he's not skint is he.
The market is slightly subdued, probably because most of the buyers are on strike, it'll recover as soon as inflation drops a bit and everyone starts spending again. Andy
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Post by veg on Jan 31, 2024 21:44:21 GMT 1
Top bikes will always sell for top money. There are loads of average stuff available, anyone who researches properly will see Andy’s bike for what it is, a superbly built well thought out and executed special that you’d struggle to even build for close to that price. I had several offers at the Manx and serious offers for very strong money. People with money often want the end result without the ‘hassle’ of building. When you are that wealthy waiting isn’t an option and when you want it you want it. Average bikes are just that with plenty of opportunities to buy one and the market is there. Then you have to divide the standard bikes ain’t no way a nice mint pv will ever have the cachet of a 4L0 in similar conditions. So the original will always out perform the later models then you have to subdivide the pv’s into desirable, lc2’s at the top working down to the Brazilian models. F2’s are nearer the bottom in desirability. They are opinions these are facts and what the market dictates. It’s not about what I or you consider to be a better bike. Yes there will always be 10 buyers for mid end and lower bikes compared to 1 for the top end but when you are selling something like Andy’s bike it isn’t appealing to those 10 buyers just the one. In my eyes (my opinion) Andy’s bike is worth every penny and more, and I will be surprised if it doesn’t realise the value. It may take a touch longer to sell but his target isn’t most buyers it’s the niche buyer with the pockets to be picky and know they are buying a good one.
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Post by donkeychomp on Jan 31, 2024 22:21:53 GMT 1
Are there still plenty of lcs in Germany or is that supply drying up now ? Not as many now as there were, a lot are over here now. I have 3 contacts in Germany and 2 in Holland who keep their eyes out for bikes I'm looking for. I've brought more early Honda CB750's and Suzuki GSXR slabbies & GS's than anything, I can buy these and move them on very quickly without having to do more than get a V5 for them. Sent a PM. Alex
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Post by Gitram on Feb 1, 2024 0:32:40 GMT 1
Not as many now as there were, a lot are over here now. I have 3 contacts in Germany and 2 in Holland who keep their eyes out for bikes I'm looking for. I've brought more early Honda CB750's and Suzuki GSXR slabbies & GS's than anything, I can buy these and move them on very quickly without having to do more than get a V5 for them. Sent a PM. Alex thought you might.. lol marti
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