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Post by 4l04ever on Sept 18, 2022 14:51:48 GMT 1
You need an original arm to start with. Drill the rivet out with a 5mm drill bit. You just need the arm part. You need an M5 ultra low head bolt/screw, an M5 0.3mm shim washer and an M5 half nut. The bearing is a 605. Pics below of order to assemble the parts. Tighten the nut as much as you can. File any excess thread above the nut, leaving about 1mm sticking above the nut. Use a hammer to peen over the end of the bolt.     |
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Post by bare on Sept 18, 2022 17:34:01 GMT 1
Nicely done bit of work.
Mere curiosity tho: What does this real life accomplish ?
I saw and considered this mod ~15 yrs ago.. but Assumed :-) the friction issue it addressed was v small to non existent.
I did only the Star mod, albeit V carefully, finding to my astonishment that
My Yama 350 Trans shifted faster with lighter action .. than does My Honda 600RR.
Which features (or claims ) niceties like undercut dogs and full bearings on it's shifter mechanism.
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Post by 4l04ever on Sept 18, 2022 21:34:29 GMT 1
The wobbly washer fitted on the standard stopper arm does not look the best idea Mr Yamaha ever had.
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Post by dusty350 on Sept 18, 2022 22:02:37 GMT 1
I agree Rob. I always mod mine like you have done, allied with the shift star mod. The bearing is much better than the standard "thick washer" !  Dusty  |
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Post by JonW on Sept 19, 2022 4:34:14 GMT 1
This is great idea, Thanks Rob, much cheaper than the Shift Pro type kits.
I assume the bolt length used was 12mm? (bearing is 5mm, plate is 2.2mm, shim is 0.3... plus the nut of about 2.5mm? = 10mm and there is a bit of thread left sticking out)
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Post by dusty350 on Sept 19, 2022 8:23:54 GMT 1
I use a nyloc nut on mine, for added security. It's the bolt head, as Rob says, that needs to be as low a profile as possible. If it isn't it can interfere with the star when the bearing sits in the low pockets. Not a great pic but;  20220919_081906 by dusty miller, on Flickr Dusty |
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Post by JonW on Sept 19, 2022 13:43:57 GMT 1
Good pic Dusty.
Agreed there is quite a bit of room in the nut area as I had a look today on a half built engine on my bench.
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Post by 4l04ever on Sept 19, 2022 16:33:31 GMT 1
Yes, bolt is 12mm. I just peen the end of the bolt over rather than a nyloc as it is even smaller and even less likely to come undone, and can still be removed with a grinder or file.
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Post by alankelly on Sept 29, 2022 20:43:56 GMT 1
That mod looks familiar 😉😉
Best wishes all Al
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Post by dusty350 on Sept 30, 2022 6:50:35 GMT 1
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Post by bare on Sept 30, 2022 23:09:11 GMT 1
The wobbly washer fitted on the standard stopper arm does not look the best idea Mr Yamaha ever had. Erm OK However that yama design does work 'Jes Fine thanks' as manufactured... for decades. It's featured in Many (most?) Yama motos before and after the Cheapo LC types IF one was on a quest to 'fix' every one of Yama Sans' Owner perceived 'Eff ups? One would be cobbling together an entirely Alternate Motorcycle. I'm a Fan of: IF it ain't Broke? .. Don't Fix it :-) Seemingly Boredom is a factor. |
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Post by 4l04ever on Oct 1, 2022 8:09:53 GMT 1
I'm more a fan of "if it is sh1t design then improve it." :-) These bikes were made to a budget, so there will be poor finish, quality issues and non-optimum parts used to stay within that budget. Better alternatives parts, materials, consumables etc have evolved over time. I am sure most people will be using semi or fully synthetic oils, but why change from the old mineral oil?  |
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Post by alankelly on Oct 1, 2022 8:27:08 GMT 1
I'm more a fan of "if it is sh1t design then improve it." :-) These bikes were made to a budget, so there will be poor finish, quality issues and non-optimum parts used to stay within that budget. Better alternatives parts, materials, consumables etc have evolved over time. I am sure most people will be using semi or fully synthetic oils, but why change from the old mineral oil? Got to totally agree there These bikes originally were never designed to be around 40 years later No harm in improving things and being an engineer who’s job role does a lot of continues improving on high volume production lines I am alway look to improved anything on the original design that makes things better than original When I did my rebuild on the Yellow Peril as well as the stopper arm modification I also rebushed both side of the lower case for the gear selector arm  Also as I was “bored” also added a needle roller bearing to the other end of the shift drum too as the case was slightly worn due the the drum rotating directly in the aluminium case  Should outlast me🤣 |
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Post by 4l04ever on Oct 1, 2022 8:33:28 GMT 1
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Post by alankelly on Oct 1, 2022 8:45:16 GMT 1
Yes seen this mod before I think It increases the travel of the arm to help gear engagement by allowing the arm to overtravel slightly therefore causing the shift drum to also rotate further during a change that in turn increases shift fork travel But I prefer the shift star mod’ combined with a modified stopper arm  |
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Post by Tobyjugs on Oct 1, 2022 11:03:58 GMT 1
Interesting debate.
I know from experience from playing around with the gear boxes and clutches there isn't nothing wrong with the original gear changing mechanism.
It's more to do with the load on the gearbox due to your clutch set up.
On one engine I have the gear selection is very/too easy. I think this one could do with a more pointy star.
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Post by andy748 on Oct 1, 2022 20:05:49 GMT 1
The wobbly washer fitted on the standard stopper arm does not look the best idea Mr Yamaha ever had. Erm OK However that yama design does work 'Jes Fine thanks' as manufactured... for decades. It's featured in Many (most?) Yama motos before and after the Cheapo LC types IF one was on a quest to 'fix' every one of Yama Sans' Owner perceived 'Eff ups? One would be cobbling together an entirely Alternate Motorcycle. I'm a Fan of: IF it ain't Broke? .. Don't Fix it :-) Seemingly Boredom is a factor. A bit like dropping a valve engine in an LC then! Andy. |
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Post by dusty350 on Oct 1, 2022 23:05:22 GMT 1
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dc12
Weekend rider
Don’t get eliminated!
Posts: 55
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Post by dc12 on Oct 1, 2022 23:25:23 GMT 1
I have an LC and did the shift star mod, stopper arm bearing, lighter return spring and shift shaft mod. It did improve shifting but only very slightly. Where it made a huge difference was finding neutral. Although mine wasn’t horrible to begin with I still made it a habit to find neutral from second as I rolled to a stop or it could be fiddly. Now I don’t even have to think about it anymore as it will go into neutral from first or second, stopped or rolling, without effort.
My friend has a PV and his was almost impossible to find neutral regardless of technique used. I did the same four mods to his bike and got the same results. Slightly better shifting but very easy to find neutral.
Since I did all four mods concurrently, I can’t say if it was a combination of all or just a specific item that made the difference. At the end of the day all of these mods are mostly about labor with very little money on parts so why not give them a try. Most of us can work on our bikes anyway otherwise we wouldn’t have them and it only takes a couple of hours.
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Post by jon on Oct 2, 2022 9:34:00 GMT 1
I have an LC and did the shift star mod, stopper arm bearing, lighter return spring and shift shaft mod. It did improve shifting but only very slightly. Where it made a huge difference was finding neutral. Although mine wasn’t horrible to begin with I still made it a habit to find neutral from second as I rolled to a stop or it could be fiddly. Now I don’t even have to think about it anymore as it will go into neutral from first or second, stopped or rolling, without effort. My friend has a PV and his was almost impossible to find neutral regardless of technique used. I did the same four mods to his bike and got the same results. Slightly better shifting but very easy to find neutral. Since I did all four mods concurrently, I can’t say if it was a combination of all or just a specific item that made the difference. At the end of the day all of these mods are mostly about labor with very little money on parts so why not give them a try. Most of us can work on our bikes anyway otherwise we wouldn’t have them and it only takes a couple of hours. How strange. I did the shift star mod on my F2. I’d only driven it a few miles home in the past so couldn’t remember what the gears were like to start with. Anyway the engine needed a rebuild (but that’s another story) so I thought I’d do the mod at the time as others were saying it was a good mod. Anyway long story short I didn’t like it. It would often jump from 1st into neutral. Replaced it with standard, and all was okay. These engines are all subtly different, and I guess it helps some in some ways? Jon |
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Post by keith101 on Oct 6, 2022 21:49:17 GMT 1
Can't get neutral except when stopped saying its clutch set up makes no sense, if that's the case why do the other gears select. Who hasn't experienced going from 1st to 2nd and missing neutral. The gears and selection between 1st, 2nd and neutral are the most sensitive and set up and designed to have 3 movements usually reserved for the space of only 2 gear movements, so it will on occasion need some setting up due to wear and the small movements allowed in this area. The clutch on the otherhand is a great lump of spinning metals. Nothing sensitive about that !
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Post by midlifecrisisrd on Oct 6, 2022 22:02:19 GMT 1
So clutch dragging won't make it difficult 🤨
Steve
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Post by Tobyjugs on Oct 6, 2022 22:17:21 GMT 1
Can't get neutral except when stopped saying its clutch set up makes no sense, if that's the case why do the other gears select. Who hasn't experienced going from 1st to 2nd and missing neutral. The gears and selection between 1st, 2nd and neutral are the most sensitive and set up and designed to have 3 movements usually reserved for the space of only 2 gear movements, so it will on occasion need some setting up due to wear and the small movements allowed in this area. The clutch on the otherhand is a great lump of spinning metals. Nothing sensitive about that ! Hi Kieth on my dry clutch setup when the engine is running I can pull the clutch in and the pressure plate for the springs will stop turning. There is no load on the gearbox and it makes the gear selector very very sensitive. It a little too easy to change gear sometimes. |
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Post by keith101 on Oct 7, 2022 9:33:13 GMT 1
That's a good point but with a wet clutch you will always have drag even on an apparently well set up one and of course pressure on gear change. I have another engine so I will try and set up a way to spin the engine and have a play
Cheers
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Post by Tobyjugs on Oct 7, 2022 10:56:34 GMT 1
That's a good point but with a wet clutch you will always have drag even on an apparently well set up one and of course pressure on gear change. I have another engine so I will try and set up a way to spin the engine and have a play Cheers Yes your correct but just that little bit more clearance between the plates makes a big difference. |
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Post by badger1 on Oct 24, 2022 20:39:10 GMT 1
You need an original arm to start with. Drill the rivet out with a 5mm drill bit. You just need the arm part. You need an M5 ultra low head bolt/screw, an M5 0.3mm shim washer and an M5 half nut. The bearing is a 605. Pics below of order to assemble the parts. Tighten the nut as much as you can. File any excess thread above the nut, leaving about 1mm sticking above the nut. Use a hammer to peen over the end of the bolt. Is that bolt high tensile or stainless ? Any info where to get them?? |
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Post by andy748 on Oct 24, 2022 20:43:18 GMT 1
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Post by 4l04ever on Oct 24, 2022 20:51:58 GMT 1
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Post by badger1 on Oct 24, 2022 21:36:42 GMT 1
Thanks , never saw the black ones when I looked.
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Post by srhiskx on Oct 27, 2022 21:23:36 GMT 1
Now strange. I did the shift star mod on my F2. I’d only driven it a few miles home in the past so couldn’t remember what the gears were like to start with. Anyway the engine needed a rebuild (but that’s another story) so I thought I’d do the mod at the time as others were saying it was a good mod. Anyway long story short I didn’t like it. It would often jump from 1st into neutral. Replaced it with standard, and all was okay.
These engines are all subtly different, and I guess it helps some in some ways?
Jon[/quote]
I also did the shift start mod on my 85 YPVS and hated it. It would also jump out the gear. Put a standard star back in and no problems…
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