mungo
Weekend rider
Posts: 58
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Post by mungo on May 27, 2022 16:55:56 GMT 1
Could anyone please tell me what it means when a advert for a 350 says tie bar model it’s on a B reg thanks
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Post by mouse on May 27, 2022 17:26:55 GMT 1
On later 250/350 LC's they had two 'bars' running from the front of the frame to the underside of the crankcase. The idea was to help stop the engine twisting in the frame and exhausts from cracking at the manifold on the early bikes.
Being a 'B' reg it should have them.
HTH Mouse
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mungo
Weekend rider
Posts: 58
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Post by mungo on May 27, 2022 17:29:55 GMT 1
Thanks 👍
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Post by firmstools on May 27, 2022 21:39:44 GMT 1
Just a thought, As the “non tie bar” models with the early cylinders and 4L0 -00 carbs are rather rare are they any more desirable than the later models?
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Post by chrisg on May 28, 2022 13:07:47 GMT 1
Just a thought, As the “non tie bar” models with the early cylinders and 4L0 -00 carbs are rather rare are they any more desirable than the later models? The early 350 never ran perfect and was updated with 4L0 01 carbs and cylinders and as such the later cylinders and carbs are more desireable. The early 4L0 00 carbs can be moded but its going to cost, so 4L0 01 are more prefereable.
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Post by tony2stroke on May 28, 2022 17:31:13 GMT 1
Just a thought, As the “non tie bar” models with the early cylinders and 4L0 -00 carbs are rather rare are they any more desirable than the later models? The early 350 never ran perfect and was updated with 4L0 01 carbs and cylinders and as such the later cylinders and carbs are more desireable. The early 4L0 00 carbs can be moded but its going to cost, so 4L0 01 are more prefereable. I have heard that the 4L0 00 barrels can be tuned better, don't how that would be, would love to know myself, but that's what I have heard. 4L0 00 carbs do seam to go for lower money, haven't noticed that with the different barrels though,
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Post by firmstools on May 28, 2022 18:18:07 GMT 1
The early 350 never ran perfect and was updated with 4L0 01 carbs and cylinders and as such the later cylinders and carbs are more desireable. The early 4L0 00 carbs can be moded but its going to cost, so 4L0 01 are more prefereable. I have heard that the 4L0 00 barrels can be tuned better, don't how that would be, would love to know myself, but that's what I have heard. 4L0 00 carbs do seam to go for lower money, haven't noticed that with the different barrels though, Be interested to see dyno curve for early and late barrels / bikes though, there must be a difference?
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Post by midlifecrisisrd on May 28, 2022 18:19:48 GMT 1
Has been said earlier barrels are more lively
Sure it was found that with tuning you could get more power from the early than the later barrels
Steve
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Post by Tobyjugs on May 28, 2022 22:38:01 GMT 1
I've got an engine to run in with the early barrels fitted. It's fitted with all standard parts except TSA's and pod filters. I've only done about 60 miles before i had to stop running it in due to back problems. It feels no different to the other engines i have used. The only thing that stands out is the exhaust note is slighly different and i think one exhaust gasket could be blowing slightly. I have to get some more small exhaust gaskets for it.
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Post by firmstools on May 29, 2022 9:03:35 GMT 1
I've got an engine to run in with the early barrels fitted. It's fitted with all standard parts except TSA's and pod filters. I've only done about 60 miles before i had to stop running it in due to back problems. It feels no different to the other engines i have used. The only thing that stands out is the exhaust note is slighly different and i think one exhaust gasket could be blowing slightly. I have to get some more small exhaust gaskets for it. Interesting you say about the exhaust note. I have early cylinders and modded 4l0-00 carbs on my bike with standard exhausts and new genuine baffles and the exhaust note has more of a crackle than it did before. Running mine in too at the moment!
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Post by 4l04ever on May 29, 2022 11:12:04 GMT 1
All 4L0 and 4L1 bikes with chassis numbers 4L0-0xxxxx and 4L1-0xxxxx started as non-tie bar bikes. These are generally 1980 model bikes.
They had forks with no drain bolts at the bottom, no grease nipples on the swingarm pivot bolt, different cylinders (4L0 had the ones without the (1) cast in the side of the inlet casting, 4L1 had the type with smaller exhaust gaskets like RD125LC)
All other 4L0 and 4L1 chassis's started as tie-bar bikes. These are 1981/1982 model bikes.
The 4L0 models had updated carbs 4L0-01 and updated cylinders with a (1) cast in the inlet. 4L1 and 4L0 both had drain bolts in the fork leg lowers, and grease nipples in the swing arm pivot bolt. The frames had the extra mounts for the tie bars and the engine casings had the extra M10x1.25 holes underneath for the tie bars to fit to.
I think the oil pumps were also updated for 1981/2 bikes compare to 1980 bikes???
The exhausts were also different from 1980 to 81/82 bikes.
Original 1980 exhausts :-
4L1 - Thin Flange - No paint on hanger 4L0 - Thin Flange - White paint dot on the hanger
Modified 1980 exhausts to help with cracking issues
4L1 - Thick Flange - Blue dot on hanger 4L0 - Thick Flange - Orange dot on hanger
1981 exhausts
4L1 - Medium Flange - Green dot on hanger 4L0 - Medium Flange - Pink dot on hanger
These parts are all easily spotted to make sure you have all the correct parts for the year of bike you have.
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Post by firmstools on May 29, 2022 16:55:12 GMT 1
All 4L0 and 4L1 bikes with chassis numbers 4L0-0xxxxx and 4L1-0xxxxx started as non-tie bar bikes. These are generally 1980 model bikes. They had forks with no drain bolts at the bottom, no grease nipples on the swingarm pivot bolt, different cylinders (4L0 had the ones without the (1) cast in the side of the inlet casting, 4L1 had the type with smaller exhaust gaskets like RD125LC) All other 4L0 and 4L1 chassis's started as tie-bar bikes. These are 1981/1982 model bikes. The 4L0 models had updated carbs 4L0-01 and updated cylinders with a (1) cast in the inlet. 4L1 and 4L0 both had drain bolts in the fork leg lowers, and grease nipples in the swing arm pivot bolt. The frames had the extra mounts for the tie bars and the engine casings had the extra M10x1.25 holes underneath for the tie bars to fit to. I think the oil pumps were also updated for 1981/2 bikes compare to 1980 bikes??? The exhausts were also different from 1980 to 81/82 bikes. Original 1980 exhausts :- 4L1 - Thin Flange - No paint on hanger 4L0 - Thin Flange - White paint dot on the hanger Modified 1980 exhausts to help with cracking issues 4L1 - Thick Flange - Blue dot on hanger 4L0 - Thick Flange - Orange dot on hanger 1981 exhausts 4L1 - Medium Flange - Green dot on hanger 4L0 - Medium Flange - Pink dot on hanger These parts are all easily spotted to make sure you have all the correct parts for the year of bike you have. Looking at this I have a real mongrel 😆 Fantastic info
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Post by 17again on May 29, 2022 17:10:52 GMT 1
do the none tie bar model exhaust keep cracking?
is it something to worry about?
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Post by reedpete on May 29, 2022 17:34:42 GMT 1
Don’t forget the shock got an upgrade too from 4L0-00 to the 01 version.
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Post by mouse on May 29, 2022 19:40:05 GMT 1
do the none tie bar model exhaust keep cracking? is it something to worry about? If you're using spring mounted alternative pipes, no problem. It's partly why pretty much all after market pipes are spring mounted at the header, to minimise the effect of vibration. Or try using the later pipes with the thicker flange. Mouse
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Post by badger1 on May 29, 2022 21:20:39 GMT 1
All 4L0 and 4L1 bikes with chassis numbers 4L0-0xxxxx and 4L1-0xxxxx started as non-tie bar bikes. These are generally 1980 model bikes. They had forks with no drain bolts at the bottom, no grease nipples on the swingarm pivot bolt, different cylinders (4L0 had the ones without the (1) cast in the side of the inlet casting, 4L1 had the type with smaller exhaust gaskets like RD125LC) All other 4L0 and 4L1 chassis's started as tie-bar bikes. These are 1981/1982 model bikes. The 4L0 models had updated carbs 4L0-01 and updated cylinders with a (1) cast in the inlet. 4L1 and 4L0 both had drain bolts in the fork leg lowers, and grease nipples in the swing arm pivot bolt. The frames had the extra mounts for the tie bars and the engine casings had the extra M10x1.25 holes underneath for the tie bars to fit to. I think the oil pumps were also updated for 1981/2 bikes compare to 1980 bikes??? The exhausts were also different from 1980 to 81/82 bikes. Original 1980 exhausts :- 4L1 - Thin Flange - No paint on hanger 4L0 - Thin Flange - White paint dot on the hanger Modified 1980 exhausts to help with cracking issues 4L1 - Thick Flange - Blue dot on hanger 4L0 - Thick Flange - Orange dot on hanger 1981 exhausts 4L1 - Medium Flange - Green dot on hanger 4L0 - Medium Flange - Pink dot on hanger These parts are all easily spotted to make sure you have all the correct parts for the year of bike you have. So have I read that right early originally 350lc’s didn’t have a grease nipple in the end of the swing arm bolt??
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Post by 17again on May 30, 2022 6:17:05 GMT 1
do the none tie bar model exhaust keep cracking? is it something to worry about? If you're using spring mounted alternative pipes, no problem. It's partly why pretty much all after market pipes are spring mounted at the header, to minimise the effect of vibration. Or try using the later pipes with the thicker flange. Mouse thanks mouse good to know.
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Post by 4l04ever on May 30, 2022 7:32:34 GMT 1
So have I read that right early originally 350lc’s didn’t have a grease nipple in the end of the swing arm bolt?? Mainly, but Yamaha may have used the early swingarm bolts in some 1981 bikes if they had some left over. This could also be the case for the other upgraded parts. Also, bikes can be registered late, so there could be some 1980 model bikes registered in 1981. Early 1980 bikes would not have the grease nipple bolt, as it was a superseded part 4L0-22141-01 replaced the earlier 4L0-22141-00.
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Post by badger1 on May 30, 2022 8:59:30 GMT 1
So have I read that right early originally 350lc’s didn’t have a grease nipple in the end of the swing arm bolt?? Mainly, but Yamaha may have used the early swingarm bolts in some 1981 bikes if they had some left over. This could also be the case for the other upgraded parts. Also, bikes can be registered late, so there could be some 1980 model bikes registered in 1981. Early 1980 bikes would not have the grease nipple bolt, as it was a superseded part 4L0-22141-01 replaced the earlier 4L0-22141-00. Thanks learn something new every day. I only asked because I’ve just looked at a early 350 2nd own from new bought it 9 mths old and still has it. It’s as should be a time Capsule all original. I noticed straight away it doesn’t have a grease nipple and I commented on it he hadn’t touched it I thought it was strange but now this answers that question.
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ajh
Thrash Merchant
Posts: 415
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Post by ajh on May 30, 2022 18:01:36 GMT 1
Ive got an early 4L0 with later thick flange exhausts and early 4L0-00 carbs and barrels with the exhaust port notch. Needed to do the yamaha mod to the carb air correctors to get rid of hideous mid range stutter but now thats done it runs perfect. Perfect pickup from idle and front wheel in the air under any hard acceleration ITs either as good but probably better than a lot of later bikes Ive ridden with I think brake callipers were slightly different too along with all the othe things mentioned
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Post by bare on May 31, 2022 0:14:12 GMT 1
Anorak Attitudes aside. Buy the latest version, Those addressed several of the initial design bungles.
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Post by JonW on May 31, 2022 3:27:38 GMT 1
Rare, but Im with bare on this one. The fixes were needed and transformed the LC to a usable bike. Its not like anyone is ever going to covet the non tie bar models etc.
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Post by 17again on Jun 2, 2022 7:58:47 GMT 1
is it normal with a none tie bar model when you rev it in neutral that you can hear the vibrations?
is there a clamp kit that you can buy to add on ( my engine is ypvs)
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Post by midlifecrisisrd on Jun 2, 2022 10:00:18 GMT 1
Afraid welding on tie bar brackets to the frame from a donor is the best option. Just did it with ypvs brackets onto an LC frame
Was the advice not to fit 4 of the anti vibration dampers on the engine mounts?
Was surprised myself with how much the non tie bar engine moved
Twists a fair bit and wobbles as it comes back down to idle
Steve
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Post by tony2stroke on Jun 2, 2022 11:35:26 GMT 1
Was surprised myself with how much the non tie bar engine moved Twists a fair bit and wobbles as it comes back down to idle Steve If you think the none tie bar LC wobbles a bit as it comes back down to idle, wait till you see your TR750
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Post by 4l04ever on Jun 2, 2022 11:38:06 GMT 1
I saw my old track bike engine moving loads on the dyno due to no tie bars. Can affect chain alignment and chain wear.
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Post by midlifecrisisrd on Jun 2, 2022 11:48:09 GMT 1
Was surprised myself with how much the non tie bar engine moved Twists a fair bit and wobbles as it comes back down to idle Steve If you think the none tie bar LC wobbles a bit as it comes back down to idle, wait till you see your TR750 Problem with the TR is that the engine won't be wobbling in the frame, will be the whole bike 😂 Steve
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Post by firmstools on Jun 2, 2022 14:07:34 GMT 1
Anorak Attitudes aside. Buy the latest version, Those addressed several of the initial design bungles. True. I suspect the LC was designed/developed as a 250 and the first 350 was a hasty "bodge" for the European market before proper development happened on the later bikes once the demand for 350s was there.
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Post by tony2stroke on Jun 2, 2022 16:27:25 GMT 1
Anorak Attitudes aside. Buy the latest version, Those addressed several of the initial design bungles. True. I suspect the LC was designed/developed as a 250 and the first 350 was a hasty "bodge" for the European market before proper development happened on the later bikes once the demand for 350s was there. That is pretty much my understanding of what happened.
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Post by JonW on Jun 3, 2022 1:01:24 GMT 1
Kinda, but not really. There had already been 350 and 400 versions of the AC 2T parallel twin so making a 350 of the water cooled unit was always something marketing would want.
Many countries had concessions for 250s and one was Japan hence most things RD started as a 250. Ie. In uk it was about learner laws and in Aus it was about 'road tax' etc. The USA and Canada wanted bigger engines and had no concessions, hence only had the bigger engines in almost all models. The loss of the learner law in the uk meant no ypvs sold there, whereas in Japan and Aus they sold way more 250s of those models than 350.
The old twin was designed as a small engine from the start, everything is balanced for a 250 and that is why the rev so well. The lineage of the engine goes back to the 60s etc.
The Lc was just another in the line of RDs (well it is really an RZ as Z means watercooling) so got the same treatment. The tie bars was something i guess the AC models (I know nothing about AC bikes) didnt have and didnt need, perhaps cos they didnt make the power of a watercooled machine?
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