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Post by lcmarky on May 19, 2022 10:27:55 GMT 1
I'm thinking ahead to a custom build and would like to consider a bespoke frame.
Who is left making frames today as in the past we had Tigcraft, Spondon, Harris & a few others I guess?
There's the guy on FB who uses the extruded section like an RC30, but I'd prefer tubes I think..
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Post by jon on May 19, 2022 19:09:12 GMT 1
Is this for road or track? Aluminium or steel?
So many for’s and against’s.
Jon
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Post by donkeychomp on May 19, 2022 21:04:23 GMT 1
If it's for road use won't it need type approval (or whatever it's called).
Alex
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Post by midlifecrisisrd on May 19, 2022 21:26:56 GMT 1
If it's for road use won't it need type approval (or whatever it's called). Alex In a word no If it's all new you can get single vehicle approval (SVA) If used you need a donor bike to donate the ID Steve
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Post by veg on May 19, 2022 21:55:00 GMT 1
A lot of the old frame builders are retired lots made their names in the 70’s and 80’s, then you have they only build generally for demand eg XR69 chassis plus they aren’t cheap a good one off tube frame is probably going to cost £5k plus it’s not just the build but the design time.
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Post by peddrotzr on May 19, 2022 22:50:55 GMT 1
As mentioned previously it depends on road or track use.
Bill Simpson Racing makes TZ 350 & 750 and Xr69 frames plus many more which are a work of art and win many races In ICGP and Classic TT He’s a great guy and was a great racer. 👍
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Post by tipfinchy on May 19, 2022 23:14:48 GMT 1
what engine are you wanting it built around ? there was a firm doing a nice looking frame for RD PV or RG500 engines i think there is a bit on here about it somewhere
mart
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Post by JonW on May 20, 2022 4:31:49 GMT 1
You could do it yourself? Bit of nice tube, buy a pipe bender kit... learn to weld at night school, or have a talented mate?
Ive considered doing my own... To be honest its not rocket science. Copy the headstock angles and the sizes and the engine cradle and other dimensions off the bikes you want or the parts you will use and then tie them together with tube the same quality and thickness as OEM and your welding will probably equal or better Yamaha's in the 70s and 80s etc.
I also considered doing a spaceframe 60's F1 car build with a 'busa engine a while back... its not like my 2000s welder is in anyway deficient to what the likes of Lotus were using in the old days lol The plans for those cars are out there online etc.
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Post by veg on May 20, 2022 7:43:28 GMT 1
It’s not as simple I don’t think as just copying head, trail, and other dimensions. You are melding two different bikes. The engine from a given bike with the chassis of a different bike. Both of these will impact on weight distribution, which then impacts on other givens then you have to consider suspension wheels, the impact of sprung and un sprung weight, etc etc etc and then a whole variety of other factors, then there is the practical side. REad Tony foales chassis design book it’ll give an insight into the practical problems you’d face.
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Post by JonW on May 20, 2022 8:13:29 GMT 1
YEs, I may have oversimplified it a bit to try and drum up some enthusiasm for the idea... its obviously not 5mins work, id expect some element of 'design' and reading around the subject not just a 6 pack of beer and a welder one night when the Mrs is out with the girls lol
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Post by Robbieben on May 20, 2022 14:43:53 GMT 1
Anything is possible if you have the will and ability to do it yourself, if you can't do it yourself it's still possible but cost becomes a key factor, most one off frame builds, even a basic one will cost you 4-5K from a talented frame builder, if you can do it yourself it can be done reasonably cheaply, I built a one off frame for my mates 1200 bandit street fighter, that bike has won many prizes in shows, the frame cost about £350 in steel at the time then lots of beer to keep me going
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avb
Thrash Merchant
andys vapour blasting
Posts: 370
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Post by avb on May 20, 2022 17:36:16 GMT 1
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Post by 4l04ever on May 20, 2022 20:48:35 GMT 1
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Post by veg on May 20, 2022 21:19:03 GMT 1
Oh yes nicco Bakker frames beautiful. That’s what Tony has isn’t it.
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Post by bigdork on May 21, 2022 4:43:15 GMT 1
Just about any modern sportbike frame is going to be cheaper, lighter and better engineered. Unless I was racing in an organization that required period accurate replicas I wouldn't be able to justify the cost personally but I do love to see other folk build them.
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Post by LC_BOTT on May 21, 2022 9:28:12 GMT 1
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Post by lcmarky on May 22, 2022 9:39:03 GMT 1
Is this for road or track? Aluminium or steel? So many for’s and against’s. Jon road - maybe a classic bike track day too.
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Post by lcmarky on May 22, 2022 9:43:16 GMT 1
what engine are you wanting it built around ? there was a firm doing a nice looking frame for RD PV or RG500 engines i think there is a bit on here about it somewhere mart 350 YPVS I think.
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Post by lcmarky on May 22, 2022 9:44:09 GMT 1
Just looks too CCM for me..
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Post by lcmarky on May 22, 2022 9:47:13 GMT 1
As mentioned previously it depends on road or track use. Bill Simpson Racing makes TZ 350 & 750 and Xr69 frames plus many more which are a work of art and win many races In ICGP and Classic TT He’s a great guy and was a great racer. 👍 Good call, maybe something less racey from a geometry perspective I was thinking, but definitely will be on my list thx.
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Post by lcmarky on May 22, 2022 9:50:37 GMT 1
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Post by lcmarky on May 22, 2022 9:52:04 GMT 1
Just about any modern sportbike frame is going to be cheaper, lighter and better engineered. Unless I was racing in an organization that required period accurate replicas I wouldn't be able to justify the cost personally but I do love to see other folk build them. Agreed & also in consideration is to take a rolling chassis, 390 Duke....
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Post by lcmarky on May 22, 2022 10:03:05 GMT 1
YEs, I may have oversimplified it a bit to try and drum up some enthusiasm for the idea... its obviously not 5mins work, id expect some element of 'design' and reading around the subject not just a 6 pack of beer and a welder one night when the Mrs is out with the girls lol This is my preferred option time permitting. I have now at home a reasonable workshop (lathe, mill, TIG welder, guillotine, auto saw/bandsaw) so add to that a pipe bender and a delivery of materials I could be away. Design dependent of course, but probably an idea to make a jig really. As said, it's a lot of work & I may be wiser to start with an existing rolling chassis to have a fighting chance of getting the geometry & weight distribution close.
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Post by veg on May 22, 2022 10:11:36 GMT 1
If you go down the Bakker route speak to Tony (tobyjugs). If you go down build your own read Tony foales chassis design book, he retired lives in spain but I found him v helpful. There is also the John Robinson book both worth reading. Even if you’re altering an existing frame
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Post by Tobyjugs on May 22, 2022 22:29:01 GMT 1
Yes my Bakker framed bike trundled down a circuit last Saturday. Ive got some niggling problems to sort out. Even a frame built by very capable people doesnt make it work first time out.
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Post by dusty350 on May 23, 2022 6:53:05 GMT 1
Why not start by modifying a Pv frame ? You can change the whole back end/seat unit by cutting off existing and welding on a new design. A few trellis additions have been added to frames in the past - Nikfubars bike was one, and I think Jon on here may have done one too. You keep the steering geometery correct, and gain practice and experience at the same time. Pv frames aren't cheap now, but possibly cheaper in the long run when you take into account the cost of a bespoke tank for a bespoke frame You can fit a Belgarda tank to a Pv frame too - you'll end up with something that looks a lot different to Pv framed bike, but will work straight off and have most of the ancilliaries in the right place Dusty
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Post by lcmarky on May 23, 2022 8:59:26 GMT 1
Yes my Bakker framed bike trundled down a circuit last Saturday. Ive got some niggling problems to sort out. Even a frame built by very capable people doesnt make it work first time out. Interested to see this Tony - is there a thread already in existence? Cheers Mark
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Post by veg on May 23, 2022 9:57:37 GMT 1
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Post by lcmarky on May 23, 2022 11:05:49 GMT 1
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Post by Tobyjugs on May 23, 2022 13:49:44 GMT 1
I need to make a small update. Here's a teaser for you.
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