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E10 fuel
Sept 1, 2021 20:47:30 GMT 1
via mobile
Post by gman on Sept 1, 2021 20:47:30 GMT 1
Hi has anyone got any information regarding e10 fuel for premixing in my elsie cheers
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YZR654
L plate rider.
Posts: 44
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Post by YZR654 on Sept 1, 2021 23:31:17 GMT 1
you should only use super unleaded
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Post by JonW on Sept 2, 2021 0:49:48 GMT 1
Dont use E10.
Thats the best info I can offer.
Pay a bit more and buy a fuel sans Ethanol.
Weve had it here for years, it takes on water and that sits in your carbs and eats them when youre not using the bike, amongst other issues.
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Post by dusty350 on Sept 2, 2021 6:49:22 GMT 1
Esso or Shell high Octane is all I will use now. E10 wont do our old bikes any good Dusty
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Post by oldbritguy on Sept 2, 2021 7:17:22 GMT 1
Avoid! Avoid! Avoid! Bad for fuel lines, eats inside of old carbs, takes on water which destroys the inside of steel tanks if left sitting, breaks down older type tank linings, eats fibreglass tanks, alcohol breaks down molecular chains in oils and therefore knackers up lubrication of crank bearings and bores Other than that it is not very good for our two stroke motors Oh and welcome to the forum John
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Post by JonW on Sept 2, 2021 8:31:09 GMT 1
We run tuned cars here on E85 using flex fuel sensors so you can run 98 as well. The E85 is the devils work on the tank/lines/plastics/alloys and anything else it seems. Car goes like hell tho and smells funny tho lol. Do you have that in the uk yet?
As said, I avoid anything E like the plague here.
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Post by verbotten on Sept 2, 2021 12:07:12 GMT 1
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Post by Robbieben on Sept 2, 2021 12:26:47 GMT 1
I've used their fuel stabiliser for 3 or 4 years now and never had any reason to complain about it, some of my bikes have stood for 6 months with the fuel in and always start and run without any problems.
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Post by steve63 on Sept 2, 2021 13:02:44 GMT 1
Aren't we just dealing with a "possible" increase of the percentage of ethanol in petrol? Not from none to loads (10%)
Putting E5 on a pump meant they COULD put up to 5% ethanol in petrol. putting E10 on a pump again means they could put up to 10% ethanol in the petrol. Not that they have to or have already. It just covers them to legally. It might even vary from tank to tank.
Any form of Super or whatever they call it doesn't necessarily have no ethanol in it from what I understand. Only certain oil companies have made statements about it and then it seemed to be in certain parts of the country. That information is probably out of date now anyway. All I'm saying is buying Super Unleaded does NOT guarantee that there is no ethanol in it and buying E5/10 does not guarantee there is!
Don't get me wrong, last time I did a track day on my RGV I took plenty of Super Unleaded from a BP garage in the town. Not sure why exactly but an RGV living at 8,000 to 11,500 all day needs all the help it can get to stay together but I run my VFR800 on the Asda E5 and now E10 and haven't noticed any issues. I guess if it was destroying my petrol pipes or some other evil slowly I would never know until it was complete. It has always ran a bit "un smooth" low down but I'm not sure if that's how they are or not having never ridden any other and I always ran the R1 on the Asda stuff as well unless I'm out and about when it needs filling then it gets what it's given. I've left it for months on end with half a tank of of Asda in it and it always fires up and runs fine afterwards.
I was out on my VFR with my mate on his V Max on Saturday. We stopped for petrol and all of the Super Unleaded pumps had "out of order" or "not in use" labels on them. I was going to fill up with it to try it. If you're out and about and you think you need it you could end up pushing from time to time. Maybe they are not going to stock it again, I don't use that garage very often so I wouldn't know how long it's been like that.
Back in the good old days some people insisted on putting 4 star in their LC's and I used unleaded. mine went at least as well as any other. In a lot of cases better. Apparently they hadn't had leaded in japan for years before the LC came out so lead was never in the equation.
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Post by JonW on Sept 2, 2021 13:39:54 GMT 1
Hmm.. Ethanol isnt the new unleaded. sadly.
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Post by JonW on Sept 9, 2021 6:09:31 GMT 1
I'll just put this here... I saw it on Fb lol
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Post by Robbieben on Sept 9, 2021 6:54:27 GMT 1
I'll just put this here... I saw it on Fb lol I saw that and it made me chuckle
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Post by beardy on Sept 9, 2021 8:17:45 GMT 1
Hi has anyone got any information regarding e10 fuel for premixing in my elsie cheers You asked and I read this the other day out of interest. I’ve just copied and pasted. Ethanol in fuel I've just read this on another group, and I can't share it. So I'm shamelessly copying and pasting it for you all. I hope the author does not mind , but I think this information will help a lot of people. Whilst I have no idea on whether the authors credentials are true, the comments are fully in line with my own research and knowledge, so I think it's legit. Make your own mind up. The great Ethanol debate A question that is constantly being asked right now, particularly with the introduction of E10, is whether Ethanol based fuel will harm my bike? As a previous industrial chemist and owner of several classic bikes and cars I decided to address this controversial subject and provide answers to many of the questions being asked. Hopefully, this will lead to an explanation on the consequences of using Ethanol based fuel and address what changes need to be made and what don’t. Using Ethanol based fuel basically comes down to a case of damage limitation. Some of the questions being asked right now include: Will Ethanol based fuel corrode my fuel tank? Will Ethanol based fuel corrode my carburettor? Will Ethanol based fuel attack my fuel pipes? Will Ethanol based fuel attack rubber seals and gaskets? Does 2 stroke oil mix properly with Ethanol based fuels? Does Ethanol based fuel increase the risk of engine seizures? Does Ethanol based fuel give the same performance as non-Ethanol based fuel? How long can Ethanol based fuels be stored for? Will a fuel stabiliser work to prevent moisture absorption and increase storage life? Can Ethanol be removed from fuel? Are there any non-Ethanol fuels still available? The main problem with Ethanol is that it is hygroscopic which means that it has an affinity to absorb moisture from the air. It is this water that causes the ensuing damage since it will, over time, corrode many of the metal parts it comes into contact with. Needless to say, the actual conditions required for the fuel to absorb significant levels of moisture must be considered. The greater the headspace in the fuel tank, the greater the chance of moisture absorption due to increased surface area of exposed fuel. Remember that fuel tanks are essentially vented to atmosphere, as are gravity fed motorcycle carburettors. Moreover, the higher the relative humidity, the greater the chance of moisture absorption. Excessive fluctuations in air temperature can also cause condensation to form which is quickly absorbed by the Ethanol. The best way to reduce moisture absorption to an absolute minimum is therefore to keep the tank topped up to the brim wherever possible and avoid exposure to severe temperature fluctuations. Keeping the bike under cover helps significantly here. Now onto the damage caused by absorbed moisture in the fuel. The main question is whether the absorbed moisture causes corrosion of metal parts? If the fuel is used before moisture build up becomes significant then corrosion damage is unlikely. However, if the fuel is left for any length of time then excessive moisture build up will start to cause corrosion damage particularly to steel and aluminium parts. Fuel tanks, fuel taps and carburettors are the main problems here and it is not uncommon to witness significant corrosion of carburettor internals when left standing over time containing Ethanol based fuels. Soldered components such as carburettor floats are also quite vulnerable. Ethanol based fuels should be used within a couple of months at the very most and drained from the tank and carburettors if left any longer than this. In any event, modern fuels do not store very well since the octane rating deteriorates if left for any longer than this. Ethanol based fuels are also more unstable than non-Ethanol fuels. Now onto rubber components. The term rubber is a bit of a misnomer. Seals, gaskets and pipes are made from a wide range of elastomers including Nitrile (Buna N), Neoprene, EPDM, Viton etc. etc. and this is where the problem lies. Whilst some elastomers exhibit very good resistance to Ethanol, many do not. Generally, motorcycle fuel pipes are made from neoprene which is extremely resistant to Ethanol so no problem there. However, many seals and gaskets are made from Nitrile (Buna N) which has very poor resistance to Ethanol. Ethanol can cause these seals and gaskets to swell over time whilst some elastomers can become quite brittle. It’s best to swap out any problematic seals and gaskets in the fuel system (taps, carburettors etc.) for a more resistant material, though this is easier said than done since many manufacturers and OEM’s do not state what material has been used in the manufacture of these items. This is a difficult one and it’s often a case of suck it and see. If Ethanol based fuels appear to be causing problems with seals and gaskets it’s best to replace the affected items then avoid Ethanol based fuels altogether. Unless, of course you can identify and obtain Ethanol resistant seals and gaskets made from more resilient materials which exhibit very good resistance to Ethanol. Most modern engine and fuel systems (post 2000) have already been manufactured incorporating seals and gaskets made from more resilient materials. A popular misconception about Ethanol based fuels is that they can increase the risk of engine seizure. There is no real credible evidence that Ethanol based fuels increase the risk of seizure despite the fact that a 10% Ethanol addition will have a slight (2.6%) leaning effect. Moreover, 2 stroke oils mix with Ethanol based fuels just as well as they do with non-Ethanol fuels. The idea that Ethanol based fuels can contribute to engine seizure is a myth that should be ignored. However, it should be noted that the calorific value (energy content) of Ethanol is less than that of Petrol so we can expect a small difference in performance when using Ethanol based fuels though hardly significant with 10% Ethanol (E10). In some countries like Australia where 85% Ethanol (E85) fuels exist this has become more of an issue but UK fuels currently contain a maximum of 10% Ethanol so not really an issue. Another common question is whether a fuel stabiliser will work to prevent moisture absorption and increase storage life? In a nutshell, No. Fuel stabilisers do not work to prevent moisture absorption and do very little to retain the octane rating of a fuel during long term storage. Stay away from them, you are wasting your money! There are some people out there suggesting that Ethanol can be removed from fuel by mixing water with the fuel to soak up the Ethanol and subsequently draining off the remaining fuel layer. This does actually work but it’s all a bit of a faff and then there’s the issue of disposing of the remaining Ethanol/water mixture safely. It’s better to try and source a non-Ethanol based fuel in the first place such as Esso Synergy Supreme+ Unleaded 97 or Synergy Supreme+ 99. These are still to be made available in the UK so I am told. Although the forecourt pumps have E5 labels on them, Esso Synergy Supreme+ 99 is actually Ethanol free (except in Devon, Cornwall, North Wales, North England and Scotland). Also, Super Unleaded will still be available for another 5 years which contains only (upto) 5% Ethanol. The less Ethanol the better. I think we’re getting the picture now. Another option, should an owner wish to keep a bike fuelled up during longer term storage is to consider filling up with an Alkylate fuel which is Ethanol free and is very stable during long term storage. This is available and sold under the brand name Aspen in the UK and whilst it does work well it is very expensive. Indeed, there are definite consequences when using Ethanol based fuel in older engines. In summary I would recommend using non-Ethanol based fuel where available or look out for Super Unleaded which contains only 5% Ethanol. Where it is not available, I would recommend that anyone using Ethanol based fuel keep it in the tank only during the active season when the bike is frequently being started and run to ensure that the fuel does not stay for too long in the bike. All the while, keep a watchful eye on any seals and gaskets within the fuel system and ensure that fuel pipes are made from neoprene. It’s easy enough to source neoprene fuel pipe and it’s not expensive. When the time comes to lay the bike up, ensure that all Ethanol based fuels are drained from the tank and carburettors and flush them through with paraffin. It is the lesser of two evils since fuel taps and carburettors are best stored filled with fuel to prevent seals from drying out but not with Ethanol based fuels. If possible, fill the tank with enough Alkylate (Aspen) fuel just to be able to flood the fuel tap and carburettor for Winter storage. Other than that, a light coating of 2 stroke oil mixed with a little paraffin can be used to coat the inside of the fuel tank to prevent corrosion. I hope this information throws some light on the great Ethanol debate and is helpful to some of you.
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stotty
L plate rider.
Posts: 32
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E10 fuel
Oct 3, 2021 9:25:17 GMT 1
via mobile
Post by stotty on Oct 3, 2021 9:25:17 GMT 1
Very, very helpful..thanks for taking the time to post…👏
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E10 fuel
Oct 3, 2021 10:52:16 GMT 1
via mobile
Post by midlifecrisisrd on Oct 3, 2021 10:52:16 GMT 1
My sister in law works in a Tesco filling station and she was commenting on all the fuel shortage fiasco and it made me think
Unleaded is now E10, Super is still E5 and not a lot of folk used to buy it due to the cost. Especially in cars.
Signs in the garage state the usual that you should check if your vehicle is older than 2011
Her garage has 3 times the capacity for E10 than E5 so you'd think that was OK but this is their fuel situation last week
Unleaded - fecking loads Super unleaded - none Diesel - plenty but less than usual
This could only mean 2 things
1) people are being lazy and not checking or being wary so using E5
2) they underestimated the demand from older cars
Also noted that they mark nozzles as out of order but they can't isolate individual nozzle at a pump. They also mark them up when the tank has 1000 litres left to stop surging and any possible contamination so there is some left. She said some fecker had used it anyway as there was 100 litres less next time she looked 🤣
Last thing I noticed this week. I have to use shell as it's a company fuel card. Plenty of fuel, just the odd garage out up here but the garage just down the road will be open with fuel
Pulled into my local shell for diesel and all normal diesel pumps are "out of order" but the v power diesel pumps are all open
Firstly shell I don't think are having as much problems up here. The refinery is local and the jave their own drivers/tankers
Secondly people are choosing to stockpile but they ain't daft enough to pay shell prices 😆
The big question is were the normal diesel pumps empty or were they just profiteering on the more expensive v power stuff 🤔
Had to pay £1.56 per litre (well my work did but they get a rebate back)
Steve
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Post by steve63 on Oct 4, 2021 13:04:34 GMT 1
The fuel shortage seems to be more of a London thing, i.e. the centre of the known universe. Obviously a problem in the south east is a much bigger and more newsworthy thing than a problem up north. Here In East Yorkshire I went to Asda on Saturday and filled the car with diesel, no queues, no pumps out of action. Filled the VFR up last Saturday at a BP garage about 6 miles further into town and there were no queues and no pumps out of action then either. My Mrs. went shopping at the same Asda on Sunday afternoon but couldn't get a chicken for tea, none left, zero. I'm not sure if it's related to the fuel shortage or not but it was a bit of a disaster for my Sunday tea and no news crews there to report it
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Post by Robbieben on Oct 4, 2021 13:12:49 GMT 1
The fuel shortage seems to be more of a London thing, i.e. the centre of the known universe. Obviously a problem in the south east is a much bigger and more newsworthy thing than a problem up north. Here In East Yorkshire I went to Asda on Saturday and filled the car with diesel, no queues, no pumps out of action. Filled the VFR up last Saturday at a BP garage about 6 miles further into town and there were no queues and no pumps out of action then either. My Mrs. went shopping at the same Asda on Sunday afternoon but couldn't get a chicken for tea, none left, zero. I'm not sure if it's related to the fuel shortage or not but it was a bit of a disaster for my Sunday tea and no news crews there to report it No problems with fuel in the Durham area after the initial panic died down, everything now appears reasonably normal again, as for the lack of chicken thats shocking Steve, I hope your good lady chose an adequate alternative.
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Post by midlifecrisisrd on Oct 4, 2021 13:13:52 GMT 1
Oh that's it, you've done it now 🙄
I'll give it a week and there will be a national chicken shortage 😁
If Nando's and KFC run out and there is an uprising it will be all your fault 🧐
Steve
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Post by Robbieben on Oct 4, 2021 16:17:39 GMT 1
I've just come back from a week in Germany and travelled through Holland to get to Germany, fuel prices in Europe are ridiculous now nearly 2.00 euro's a litre for premium unleaded and 1.88 Euro's a litre for the E10 fuels in Germany and approx 10 cents dearer in Holland, far higher than Uk prices are at the moment.
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fubars
Drag-strip hero
Posts: 294
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Post by fubars on Oct 5, 2021 13:21:31 GMT 1
Well according to the Government fuel checker no Yamaha up to 1990 should use E10, it's only a matter of time before they phase E5 out altogether.
This sadly is one reason I sold my LC but the fact is most older bikes and cars will just become giant paper weights.
Having said that I've seen a nice 125LC I like 🤔.
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Post by Witterz on Oct 5, 2021 15:38:47 GMT 1
Im under the impression that all super unleaded fuels are now E5 except Esso premium 99+ which is still the only ethanol free fuel out there at the
moment. That's what Im using in my LC at the moment, but you do pay over the odds for it though 🤔
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Post by steve63 on Oct 6, 2021 12:40:51 GMT 1
The fuel shortage seems to be more of a London thing, i.e. the centre of the known universe. Obviously a problem in the south east is a much bigger and more newsworthy thing than a problem up north. Here In East Yorkshire I went to Asda on Saturday and filled the car with diesel, no queues, no pumps out of action. Filled the VFR up last Saturday at a BP garage about 6 miles further into town and there were no queues and no pumps out of action then either. My Mrs. went shopping at the same Asda on Sunday afternoon but couldn't get a chicken for tea, none left, zero. I'm not sure if it's related to the fuel shortage or not but it was a bit of a disaster for my Sunday tea and no news crews there to report it No problems with fuel in the Durham area after the initial panic died down, everything now appears reasonably normal again, as for the lack of chicken thats shocking Steve, I hope your good lady chose an adequate alternative. Shocking doesn't even come close! My Mrs. often announces what we are having and then it doesn't happen saying she changed her mind. Well I'm sorry, once my taste buds are geared up and anticipating something you can't simply change your mind and give me something else (is something I've never said to her). I can't remember what we had which tells me it wasn't an adequate alternative. Is there an adequate alternative to a full roast chicken dinner anyway?
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E10 fuel
Oct 6, 2021 13:31:01 GMT 1
via mobile
Post by midlifecrisisrd on Oct 6, 2021 13:31:01 GMT 1
Sorry I'm not accepting any of that
A roast chicken dinner is just a dinner
A "roast" has to be lamb or beef
And don't start me on that veggie nut shite 😤
Steve 😆
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E10 fuel
Oct 6, 2021 13:57:04 GMT 1
via mobile
Post by oldbritguy on Oct 6, 2021 13:57:04 GMT 1
As a thought, considerable discussion has been had on the best (or most appropriate ) jointing compound for crank case halves, and it’s resistance to petroleum. I have been using threebond on mine and used methylated spirit to clean up residual stuff from the cases, even when well set. Methylated spirit is virtually pure alcohol so I would throw in a technical question and ask would 10% alcohol in petrol have a degrading effect on the sealant between cases. Too much navel gazing I think. John
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Post by Robbieben on Oct 6, 2021 15:52:28 GMT 1
As a thought, considerable discussion has been had on the best (or most appropriate ) jointing compound for crank case halves, and it’s resistance to petroleum. I have been using threebond on mine and used methylated spirit to clean up residual stuff from the cases, even when well set. Methylated spirit is virtually pure alcohol so I would throw in a technical question and ask would 10% alcohol in petrol have a degrading effect on the sealant between cases. Too much navel gazing I think. John I very much doubt that the ethanol content would have any ill effect on the sealant as its enclosed under pressure between the case joint faces and not exposed to the fuel as such. We use sealants for acids, petrol and diesel fuels on flange joints on tankers that can be easily cleaned off the outer faces using these same products but we've never had a joint fail in use after it's all bolted up.
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Post by midlifecrisisrd on Oct 6, 2021 16:25:33 GMT 1
As a thought, considerable discussion has been had on the best (or most appropriate ) jointing compound for crank case halves, and it’s resistance to petroleum. I have been using threebond on mine and used methylated spirit to clean up residual stuff from the cases, even when well set. Methylated spirit is virtually pure alcohol so I would throw in a technical question and ask would 10% alcohol in petrol have a degrading effect on the sealant between cases. Too much navel gazing I think. John I'll be sticking with 1211, it doesn't come off with meths 😁 Sure I read it's ok with methanol so that's one type of alcohol Steve
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Post by abar121 on Oct 6, 2021 16:47:11 GMT 1
I'm in London and have filled up a couple of times over the past week.
Zero queues, all grades available. Unlike friends in Farnborough who hve been really struggling..
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Post by geoffers997 on Oct 6, 2021 21:59:18 GMT 1
Last Saturday the mummy-mobile SUV driving halfwits were queuing all thru my village in Hampshire to buy BP petrol at £1.46 a litre.
I went into the local town and filled up at Sainsbury’s for £1.33. There were half a dozen cars in the queue - not abnormal for a Saturday morning.
Just how much of this is a media fed feeding frenzy of the gullible ?
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Post by donkeychomp on Oct 6, 2021 22:56:28 GMT 1
No CHICKEN! Clucking hell.
Alex
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Post by midlifecrisisrd on Oct 6, 2021 23:00:13 GMT 1
No CHICKEN! Clucking hell. Alex Hey you,,read the rules, no foul language 😆 Steve
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