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Post by wassy06 on May 20, 2021 19:37:05 GMT 1
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Post by rigga on May 20, 2021 20:31:48 GMT 1
Read this yesterday, shocking amount of defects, which for those who have their bike's, is a major concern, and possibly no recourse of fixing them.
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Post by headcoats on May 20, 2021 20:54:51 GMT 1
Makes Buell look good !
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jam911
Thrash Merchant
Posts: 376
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Post by jam911 on May 20, 2021 21:40:46 GMT 1
How can they have even been allowed to sell them if they are clearly dangerous
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Post by donkeychomp on May 20, 2021 22:33:52 GMT 1
Because of the name...and rich people willing to buy one.
Alex
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Post by JonW on May 21, 2021 1:59:27 GMT 1
sad for all those buyers, w#*#ers or not they didnt deserve what they got.
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Post by chrisg on May 21, 2021 7:45:56 GMT 1
How can they have even been allowed to sell them if they are clearly dangerous 20 safety critical, wow that is completely irresponsible on their part. That's why the Japanese took over in the late 60's.
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Post by arrdy350 on May 21, 2021 8:53:39 GMT 1
That really bad so many defect's 😱
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Post by veg on May 21, 2021 9:04:21 GMT 1
Now some of those fails are interesting as they are intrinsic to the motors integrity and I was under the impression that they were supplied new by aprilia? If that’s the case does or has aprilia had similar concerns? Then there are the unforgivable ones chassis cracks, swing arm failures dodgy quality control? Who knows. It’s sad that a once ground breaking and world leading firm was subjected to a chancer. I’d also question that all owners are wealthy the reality was a lot of people invested their savings in the company and bikes some from previous reports their life savings, it’s a little like the debacle of rover under towers, with similar motivations.
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Post by rigga on May 21, 2021 11:22:23 GMT 1
I'm suprised Simon Skinner, chief engineer,Garners right hand man by all accounts, and possibly heavily involved in the stripping of customers bikes in for service, so that those part could be fitted to new bike's, is still employed in the new Norton set up.
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Post by tonyd123 on May 21, 2021 11:39:40 GMT 1
Dreadful! I do hope Stuart Garner is properly brought to account for all his dodgy dealings. A prison sentence would seem appropriate.
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Post by steve h on May 21, 2021 11:52:59 GMT 1
I find it rather amusing that someone who was lauded by the media and fans, is now such a reviled figure. It cant be that easy to take money off/fool people and the powers that be can it?.. The only problem was...he got caught out, plenty don't. He aint the 1st and wont be the last.
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Post by LC_BOTT on May 21, 2021 11:56:34 GMT 1
Then there are the unforgivable ones chassis cracks, swing arm failures dodgy quality control? Who knows. I’d also question that all owners are wealthy the reality was a lot of people invested their savings in the company and bikes some from previous reports their life savings, it’s a little like the debacle of rover under towers, with similar motivations. Hardly dodgy quality control, sounds like poor manufacturing and assembly/welding skills first off. Assuming they were 'hand made' in house. I too doubt every customer was rich beyond belief, some probably just helping the company to survive (with hopefully some pfofit on their 'investment')
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Post by Robbieben on May 21, 2021 13:11:32 GMT 1
Then there are the unforgivable ones chassis cracks, swing arm failures dodgy quality control? Who knows. I’d also question that all owners are wealthy the reality was a lot of people invested their savings in the company and bikes some from previous reports their life savings, it’s a little like the debacle of rover under towers, with similar motivations. Hardly dodgy quality control, sounds like poor manufacturing and assembly/welding skills first off. Assuming they were 'hand made' in house. I too doubt every customer was rich beyond belief, some probably just helping the company to survive (with hopefully some pfofit on their 'investment') My understanding is that most of the bike was made elsewhere, India, Pakistan etc, then shipped to the UK to be assembled.
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Post by reedpete on May 21, 2021 13:45:55 GMT 1
Think the best phrase to summarise using formal management speak is a total ‘cluster f**k’ ! Feel sorry for the souls who naively got sucked in. Sadly our limited liability law has very little teeth to properly address ‘the obvious situation’ , so unless there’s an overt criminal act seems individuals can too easily avoid accountability.
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Post by veg on May 21, 2021 14:04:41 GMT 1
Think the best phrase to summarise using formal management speak is a total ‘cluster f**k’ ! Feel sorry for the souls who naively got sucked in. Sadly our limited liability law has very little teeth to properly address ‘the obvious situation’ , so unless there’s an overt criminal act seems individuals can too easily avoid accountability. That’s the problem Pete it is a limited liability and highly unlikely it will ever lead to criminal charges as it’s beyond reasonable doubt as a burden of proof, he would never admit that and unless you have proof of the mens rea eg emails proving it was an act to deliberately deceive you’ll get nowhere. Cps will never run it. Now a civil action may happen as it’s on the balance of probabilities. However that would be for financial recourse, again that will be covered by creditors of which joe public always comes behind big business and the establishment. I do remember at the time MCN bigging him up as a saviour and a great business man, that possibly swayed some to invest. He was/is a chancer at best, I read up on this quite extensively and how he wasn’t caught out earlier beggars belief. However it seems in this society the bigger the lie, the more audacious you are the less likely you are to be caught.
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Post by tonyd123 on May 21, 2021 18:58:32 GMT 1
It's the part where he uses the pension fund to keep the company going that should put him down, hopefully! Although no doubt there is a very complicated trail.
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Post by donkeychomp on May 21, 2021 21:48:47 GMT 1
Sorry about the 'rich' folk bit, I was just speaking out loud without realising it!
Whoever got sucked into this I sure hope they get their money back.
On a plus side, DeLorean got jailed do there's hope yet!
Alex
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Post by tonyd123 on May 22, 2021 22:56:54 GMT 1
Did John Delorean not get jailed because he was accused of drug dealing to prop up the company?
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Post by JonW on May 23, 2021 0:01:16 GMT 1
FRom wikepdia
In October 1982, DeLorean was charged with cocaine trafficking after FBI informant James Hoffman solicited him as financier in a scheme to sell 55 lb (25 kg) of cocaine worth approximately $24 million. DMC was insolvent at the time and in debt for $17 million. (Actual wholesale value today would be $600,000, it seems $24 million is an exaggeration). Hoffman had approached DeLorean, a man whom he barely knew with no prior criminal record, and DeLorean was able to successfully defend himself at trial under the procedural defense of police entrapment. The trial ended in a not guilty verdict in August 1984, by which time DMC had declared bankruptcy and ended operations.
and:
On September 21, 1985, DeLorean was indicted on charges he defrauded investors and committed tax evasion by diverting millions of dollars raised for the company to himself.[40] He was acquitted of all charges.[41]
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Post by rigga on May 23, 2021 21:56:05 GMT 1
Couple of things I recall with Norton. Garner bought out Spondon (famed frame makers) in a very dubious deal, and promptly shut the company, this is where or how Norton make the frames for their bikes.
Engine is made in house, and is not the Aprilia version, thats the engine they used for the SG series of racebikes, as they needed to be limited to 1000cc, road bike engine is 1200 as I recall, didnt stop Garner trying to convince the ACU/TT to allow the bigger engine to run it though, they said foxtrot Oscar.
So quality control of in house frame building and engine design is obviously very poor
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Post by rigga on May 27, 2021 11:23:29 GMT 1
Garner declared bankrupt the other morning, can't hold positions like director in companies, but not much of a slap on the wrist.
Pension fund members looked screwed, as no way of recovering funds
f**king w**ker
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Post by geoffers997 on May 27, 2021 11:42:11 GMT 1
I thought that after the Maxwell / Daily Mirror pension scandal there was legislation introduced to somehow deal with this sort of thievery ?
The reality I guess will be that the guy will walk away and the pension fund members will get pennies on the dollar from the governments rescue fund.
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Post by steve h on May 27, 2021 12:23:51 GMT 1
It's a good job they've still got their old age pension...
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Post by wassy06 on Jun 17, 2021 6:01:47 GMT 1
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Post by JonW on Jun 17, 2021 6:41:59 GMT 1
wow. I fear its not going to get any better.
Note to self: Avoid all low volume bikes by start up manufacturers. (As if i could afford to buy one anyway)
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Post by veg on Jun 17, 2021 7:38:54 GMT 1
Bloody hell, you’ve got theft and fraud going on there. Just because it’s a business doesn’t mitigate against a crime being committed. Absolutely disgraceful behaviour.
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Post by tonyd123 on Jun 17, 2021 8:04:29 GMT 1
Wow, I think someone is a bit upset.
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Post by JonW on Jun 17, 2021 8:55:22 GMT 1
Wow, I think someone is a bit upset. There was a lot of money lost, there is always going to be people who are upset at that. So often we hear of a massive gulf between dream and reality with this type of operation/product, its sad but its not surprising that this happened. I assume people remember the TSS debacle here in Aus around 10 years back now, cheaper bike but still a bunch of people lost money on their dream bike purchase.
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Post by tonyd123 on Jun 17, 2021 9:02:30 GMT 1
Wow, I think someone is a bit upset. There was a lot of money lost, there is always going to be people who are upset at that. Yes, my comment was a bit tongue in cheek On the plus side, he has actually got a bike, a lot of people haven't. May be worth a lot of money in the future for it's rarity value
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