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Post by mattish on Apr 9, 2021 12:08:03 GMT 1
My RD350 1WT was stolen probably 13+ years ago, and sadly never showed up. I'm guessing as it was never found as a burnt out mess it was broken for parts or went overseas. Is anyone now running parts with the frame/engine number 1WT015691, or happen to have seen it in passing? - not that many parts actually had the number on them anyway...
I'm not sure why I'm curious now, but I am  |
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Post by Yogi on Apr 9, 2021 16:40:30 GMT 1
Eerrrrr if anyone admits to that there basically saying there bikes stolen 🥴🙈
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Post by veg on Apr 9, 2021 17:25:56 GMT 1
I was thinking exactly the same Matt, sounds like a baldrick cunning plan 😁
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Post by mattish on Apr 12, 2021 9:29:49 GMT 1
Eerrrrr if anyone admits to that there basically saying there bikes stolen 🥴🙈 Good point, but people can end up with parts unknowingly. I wasn't after pointing fingers or saying oi thief that's mine, I was just curious where the bike or parts went seeing as it was such a long time ago now. If it did stay in the UK and didn't get burnt out, I'm guessing parts must have been sold on? I gave up all hope of ever seeing my RD again many many years ago. I'm in the process of rebuilding my 650 bandit at the moment, I've bought lots of used parts and it got me thinking I have no clue of their history for the most part. If my old bike has helped keep another on the road, then good for it, hopefully the current owner has no clue of it's history. |
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Post by veg on Apr 12, 2021 10:10:24 GMT 1
If it was stolen and reported as such by yourself and or the insurance company there is no way the chassis or engine number will remain, they will be long gone, if you inadvertently bought these parts as soon as you attempt to register them old bill will be looking at handling stolen goods, the only way would be if someone had innocently bought them and had sat on them, they then suddenly decide to register them, move them on etc same thing would happen.
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Post by steve63 on Apr 12, 2021 23:03:09 GMT 1
If it was stolen and reported as such by yourself and or the insurance company there is no way the chassis or engine number will remain, they will be long gone, if you inadvertently bought these parts as soon as you attempt to register them old bill will be looking at handling stolen goods, the only way would be if someone had innocently bought them and had sat on them, they then suddenly decide to register them, move them on etc same thing would happen. Some things people presume will happen don't. My lad had his YZ125 stolen about five years ago. I had just used one of those microdot 'security' things on it. The kit was supplied by the insurance company. Some people don't realsise that off-road or race bikes can be insured without being registered but they can. The company just asks for the engine and frame number rather than a reg number. Anyway the bike was stolen, the Plice turned up, did some fingerprinting, left a crime number and went. I sent evidence of the value of the bike to the insurers and they paid out pretty much what it was worth. We went out and bought a YZ250. Anyway while viewing the 250 we tried to ensure we were not buying a stolen bike so how do you do that? "Ring the Police and ask them to check the frame and/or engine number" lots of people said. Have you ever tried this? The Police do not offer a check the frame number to see if it stolen service. I found out when talking to the insurance company about the 125 theft and asking lots of questions and being asked a few back such as what is the registration of the bike?, that only the frame number goes onto a stolen vehicle register of any kind. That was surprising in itself but then she said that the register is only a local one for the Police area it was stolen in. This would therefore mean that that engine could be sold again anwhere in the country including The Humberside Police area where it was stolen. The frame could be sold anywhere in the country or abroad and would only flag up if the police in Humberside came across it for some reason like in a raid. It would seem logical and sensible to have a National if not International register of all stolen vehicle engine and frame numbers that anyone including the Police could access that you could check before buying that a bike or just a frame/engine has not previously been reported as stolen wouldn't it? I certainly thought so in 2015 but no there isn't. There is at least one data base that you can upload your bike details onto maybe more than one but it's just some guys effort to do something about the situation. It would be a sensible thing to do for a bike thief to remove the frame and engine numbers once they have nicked the bike just in case a million to one event does actually happen and the Police come knocking but really all they have to do is drive it to another Police area and theyre home and dry. I talked to the insurance company about it and said that the situation just encourages theft and they should be actively trying to change the situation because it's costing them money. As I said this was 2015. Things might have changed but my money is on not. Anyway if you think that if anyone tries to register a bike with an engine number from a bike reported as stolen that the Police will turn up mob handed at their door tructions in hand you'll have a long wait. Don't confuse them with some kind of efficient force out to prevent and solve crime. They should be and could be but they are not. BTW no one was interested in or wanted the details of the micro dot security thing so that was a waste of time. |
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Post by veg on Apr 12, 2021 23:16:09 GMT 1
The police national computer (pnc) contains a whole variety of things including a database of stolen vehicles including the chassis numbers and engine numbers it’s a national database not a local one or force area one. The intelligence systems are generally a locally devolved system that aren’t always compatible with neighbouring force areas.
Sadly you are right about a mob handed response isn’t ever going to happen, when you lose over 30,000 officers and then further natural wastage etc coupled with the ever increasing home office targets, ridiculous recording forms etc, all forces used to have at least a couple of officers trained in forensic recovery procedures for stolen vehicles, generally used to be traffic lads but again that’s gone by the wayside now. If you don’t get officers attending burglary dwelling you sure ain’t getting a response to auto theft.
Trying to police on an ever decreasing budget and numbers, with home office targets means it’s a criminals playground.
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Post by steve63 on Apr 13, 2021 23:11:49 GMT 1
The engine number of our stolen YZ125 is on no national data base.
I maybe about to test the system. I bought a stolen recovered LC rolling chassis about 20 years ago. I only got the V5 a few months ago. According to the V5 the bike has matching numbers but the engine I'm going to put in isn't that one. I have no idea if he even got the engine back or if he sold it to someone else. If it was never returned and is still registered as stolen then the Police National Data Base will collar me 🙂
Could be that that engine is in another bike. Could be in someone's shed, could be in land fill. Would the system allow two bikes to be registered with the same engine number?
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Post by steve63 on Apr 14, 2021 13:07:03 GMT 1
It could get even more complicated. I bought an LC in 1987, took the engine out and replaced it with a 31K F1 YPVS motor. My cousin bought an LC a while later and came round my place saying his engine sounded rough or wrong, can't remember it was so long ago. I took his engine out and put my old engine in his and he rode away. I still have his old engine in bits in my garage. This is the engine I intend to put in one of my LC's. I have no idea if my Cousin changed the engine number on his V5. Back then we didn't worry about formalities like that. I have no idea what happened to the bike either. If it was nicked or sold, scrapped etc. Why on earth did I allow myself to do that? I guess at the time LC's and engines were cheap and no one had 'matching numbers' awareness  I have no idea what will happen when I send the V5 off with a change of engine number to his old one, if anything. |
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Post by steve h on Apr 14, 2021 15:57:06 GMT 1
"The intelligence systems are generally a local devolved system that arnt always compatible with neighbouring force areas."
Now that is a masterstroke of pure GENIUS. It's a national crime prevention service....no matter who funds it or where funds come from.....
No doubt all donkeys involved with that one are on final salary pension for their devotion to duty and public service.
Just another example of utter incompetence.... totally unsurprising.
The money spent on "smart motorways" could have been better used putting more Dibbles on the street...but thats another shit show.....
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Post by veg on Apr 14, 2021 16:19:20 GMT 1
Completely and utterly agree Steve, it’s not just intel systems, uniform maybe supplied by different companies, police vehicles aren’t bought via a central system hence why you see different brands, when snow used to hit badly often we had to borrow from Land Rover as we didn’t have the appropriate vehicles. These items aren’t bought or developed by old bill but by civilian staff who don’t know their arse from their elbow then rubber stamped by some prat on the accelerated promotion scheme who re-invents the wheel until they get promoted and another APT comes along who invariably wants their stamp on it, whilst the Home Office just want good press. It isn’t about upholding the law or keeping citizens safe it’s appearing to do it, two very different things.
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Post by midlifecrisisrd on Apr 14, 2021 16:41:07 GMT 1
Think you will be fine with a duplicate engine number
I noticed the other day my 385 has the wrong engine number on it
Changed the engine 9 years ago and must have forgot to update the v5
Cases sold soon after so no doubt on 2 v5's at one time
Unless somebody goes and actually looks at the records for both bikes which is unlikely to happen
Think only the VIN would flag up
Steve
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Post by abar121 on Apr 14, 2021 16:49:31 GMT 1
The engine number shouldn't be a problem. To be honest, most other countries do not have a record of the engine number, only the frame / vin. At least in Europe anyway.
I also don't know of another country that allows used imported vehicles to be registered without the original title/reg/delist/export document like the UK.
So we are used as a gateway to import and register stolen vehicles, which are then exported with a 'valid' documents..
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Post by Gitram on Apr 14, 2021 18:44:19 GMT 1
I'm led to believe that DVLA don't record engine numbers in the same way as they do chassis numbers. everything is done with the chassis number..
if i was to blow up my car engine and put another in from a write off then you would think that might flag up something on the system and i would get a letter from dvla asking why but I've done that, years ago to be fair.. and never heard anything.. times change and systems get updated though..
I've never been in contact with dvla to check that so if i'm wrong it would be good to know..
marti
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Post by JonW on Apr 15, 2021 1:28:24 GMT 1
In theory they should question an engine change but as has been said the data is mostly about the VIN, not the engine and I doubt engine crime is as sexy as repatriating whole vehicles.
In Japan remember there is no engine number on our bikes, just a code. ie '29L', I cant believe the grey importers hammered frame numbers after those codes into every engine that passed thru their doors in the 90s.
It is a shame that these systems are not all linked up, but I cant see much of a driver for it as who is going to fund it I wonder. You would think the insurance industry would be keen, but its probably not worth it to them as it would just give them bits of cars and bikes to sell off at auction and the returns would be minimal.
FWIW Ive never seen an engine number overstamped by the police like i have with frames in any country...
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Post by steve63 on Apr 19, 2021 22:21:38 GMT 1
The frame from the stolen-recovered rolling chassis has a number stamped near the seat lock. It starts with VIB I think, (Vehicle Inspection Branch). It still has the original frame number intact as well.
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Post by abar121 on Apr 20, 2021 11:52:26 GMT 1
In theory they should question an engine change but as has been said the data is mostly about the VIN, not the engine and I doubt engine crime is as sexy as repatriating whole vehicles. In Japan remember there is no engine number on our bikes, just a code. ie '29L', I cant believe the grey importers hammered frame numbers after those codes into every engine that passed thru their doors in the 90s. It is a shame that these systems are not all linked up, but I cant see much of a driver for it as who is going to fund it I wonder. You would think the insurance industry would be keen, but its probably not worth it to them as it would just give them bits of cars and bikes to sell off at auction and the returns would be minimal. FWIW Ive never seen an engine number overstamped by the police like i have with frames in any country... The DVLA need proof to change an engine numbe, like an invoice stating the work involved and the new number. But it is quite random if they check. They obviously have no idea of any correlation to the frame number. This is all out of date with VIN numbers for the past twenty years anyway. FWIW, I sold my Ducati Sport Classic Paul Smart to a chap in Portugal, after first importing it from Germany. The owner from new was unaware that it didn't have the original engine number, as stated from the EU CoC document issued when it was produced. They just don't check that in Germany and it wasn't unusual at the time for an engine to fail quality checks and be switched out at the factory. So I spotted it buying the bike. DVLA still issued a V5 with the correct engine number (not matching the CoC supplied). The dealer from Portugal who bought it couldn't care, not relevant there. |
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Post by julianboolean on Apr 20, 2021 13:26:31 GMT 1
Does the engine number matter, my JDM FZR400 hasn't got an engine number, on the V5 it's down as being the same as the frame number, but there's no number anywhere on the engine.
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Post by reedpete on Apr 20, 2021 21:56:27 GMT 1
My JDM 4L3 that arrived with 35O engine was put onto the system with 4U0 as engine number which is all that’s stamped there for JDM 350s.
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Post by steve63 on Apr 21, 2021 8:28:56 GMT 1
When I was pulled by the Police on my LC/YPVS he checked and found the engine number didn't match the V5. I told him I had just done it and not got around to it (8/10 years or so). I just changed it on the V5, sent it off and it came back no problem.
On my 400 Four I changed the CC to 398 from 403 and there was no problem. This was to insure it on an up to 400cc rider policy. I don't know why I bothered but it went through on the system with no questions asked.
Somewhere out there is a 400 Four with 398cc on the log book and 398cc stamped on the cylinder if it's still around.
The sign of a bike I have no connection with is that I don't remember the registration number and this one I don't even though I had it about five years.
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Post by dougw on Apr 21, 2021 12:04:13 GMT 1
Sometime in the early 90`s a friend seized her 250LC , and fitted a 350YPVS engine from the local breakers. The engine number had been defaced on that. She contacted DVLA at the time, they stated she could stamp anything she liked as an engine number, notify them and they would change it on the V5. That bike was on a Q plate, has been in my loft for the last twenty years, after being left outside to rot by the previous owner for 5 years. Stripped, frame painted, yokes fitted and project stalled. V5 is not in my name yet, must get around to that. Also got a set of cases with numbers on to rebuild motor into. No chance of getting an age related plate for that, the original engine was dumped in the 90`s, could have had it then for free, didn`t bother  . Not that bothered, will be built for me to play on, not for re-sale value. |
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Post by JonW on Apr 21, 2021 13:44:21 GMT 1
Sometime in the early 90`s a friend seized her 250LC , and fitted a 350YPVS engine from the local breakers. The engine number had been defaced on that. She contacted DVLA at the time, they stated she could stamp anything she liked as an engine number, notify them and they would change it on the V5. That bike was on a Q plate, has been in my loft for the last twenty years, after being left outside to rot by the previous owner for 5 years. Stripped, frame painted, yokes fitted and project stalled. V5 is not in my name yet, must get around to that. Also got a set of cases with numbers on to rebuild motor into. No chance of getting an age related plate for that, the original engine was dumped in the 90`s, could have had it then for free, didn`t bother . Not that bothered, will be built for me to play on, not for re-sale value. 4L0-FUDVLA? |
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Post by steve63 on Apr 22, 2021 12:52:23 GMT 1
Sometime in the early 90`s a friend seized her 250LC , and fitted a 350YPVS engine from the local breakers. The engine number had been defaced on that. She contacted DVLA at the time, they stated she could stamp anything she liked as an engine number, notify them and they would change it on the V5. That bike was on a Q plate, has been in my loft for the last twenty years, after being left outside to rot by the previous owner for 5 years. Stripped, frame painted, yokes fitted and project stalled. V5 is not in my name yet, must get around to that. Also got a set of cases with numbers on to rebuild motor into. No chance of getting an age related plate for that, the original engine was dumped in the 90`s, could have had it then for free, didn`t bother . Not that bothered, will be built for me to play on, not for re-sale value. 4L0-FUDVLA? I have to say, it took me a while but I got it in the end  |
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