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Post by mannanan on Mar 9, 2021 16:42:29 GMT 1
I know I am worrying like an old woman but I can’t help it. Oil pump refurbished by Arrow five years back, no problems whatsoever since. Checked gap, still the same as when Arrow set it so no worries there. It’s just that my oil consumption seems very light. It took 392 miles before the oil light started to flicker on. Few more miles before I topped up and I have only used a litre in 436 miles. Cause for concern or no worries?
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Post by rich on Mar 9, 2021 16:58:55 GMT 1
Sounds about right
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Post by Tobyjugs on Mar 9, 2021 18:04:18 GMT 1
I have never looked at the distance between refills. My oil consumption is roughly 2.5 fuel tanks to 1 refill of the oil tank.
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Post by chrisg on Mar 9, 2021 18:04:54 GMT 1
work out how much petrol you have used and do the maths and you should get a ratio ie 33:1
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Post by steve63 on Mar 10, 2021 0:26:08 GMT 1
work out how much petrol you have used and do the maths and you should get a ratio ie 33:1 I doubt it would be anywhere near that at 'normal' road speeds. Even on the track I don't think it would approach 33:1 on an oil pump. I'm sure Arrow will come along and correct me if I'm wrong but you mix 33:1 or 40:1 for worst case scenario, full throttle/max revs. Pump might deliver that at those brief moments but most of the time it will be pumping a fraction of that. |
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Post by arrow on Mar 10, 2021 1:28:24 GMT 1
work out how much petrol you have used and do the maths and you should get a ratio ie 33:1 I doubt it would be anywhere near that at 'normal' road speeds. Even on the track I don't think it would approach 33:1 on an oil pump. I'm sure Arrow will come along and correct me if I'm wrong but you mix 33:1 or 40:1 for worst case scenario, full throttle/max revs. Pump might deliver that at those brief moments but most of the time it will be pumping a fraction of that. The pump will deliver pretty much 20:1 at anything over the 3/4 throttle position. Much less than this just pottering around. We don't need to worry too much about this, as long as everything is set up correctly, ie; correct cable, pulley set to correct mark and minimum stroke set correctly. The Yamaha engineers did all the ground work for us, with regards to specific usage/riding style/oil consumption. Mannanan; your usage is ok, sounds like you are taking it steady on the roads, with not many track days, am I correct? Just one thing though, you say it's set the same as when I sent it back, five years ago. That's excellent, but unusual (although I NEVER get any feed back from people saying they had to add 2 thou or so, at anytime). The first pumps I built have been out there some ten years now and adjustment is expected in that time. As always, give me a call if you need any further assistance. Always here to help. |
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Post by arrow on Mar 10, 2021 2:20:20 GMT 1
Re. premix. 35:1~40:1 is a compromise that's long been excepted for most RD's.
A compromise between keeping the engine alive and not getting banned off the roads! At 40:1 your pretty safe on the latter, but for a track day I would use 25:1.
Premix is always a compromise, the oil pump provides the correct lubrication for any given scenario.
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Post by mannanan on Mar 10, 2021 9:42:55 GMT 1
Thanks for your comments Gents. I don’t feel so worried now. Arrow, you are right in no track days but it never gets to potter around town. All journeys are just for a 20-30 mile blast and although not hanging in the red line, it’s always high revs. That was why I thought consumption seemed a bit light. I will recheck the pump settings but happy if it has moved, it’s only by a gnats. No idea how much petrol it’s using as I never check that, I just splash in £10.00 worth at a time. Guess for an accurate reading I need check both but for the moment, I feel I can relax about the consumption.
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Post by arrow on Mar 10, 2021 10:57:26 GMT 1
Another thing I just remembered is at least one instance of an owner getting mixed up with imperial and metric feeler gauges. He was checking the gap with a 0.1mm gauge and thought it was 0.010"
Resulting in a reduction of 0.006" on the correct minimum stroke.
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Post by steve63 on Mar 10, 2021 13:56:42 GMT 1
I know I am worrying like an old woman but I can’t help it. Oil pump refurbished by Arrow five years back, no problems whatsoever since. Checked gap, still the same as when Arrow set it so no worries there. It’s just that my oil consumption seems very light. It took 392 miles before the oil light started to flicker on. Few more miles before I topped up and I have only used a litre in 436 miles. Cause for concern or no worries? I do vaguely remember 300miles per oil tank top to red light back on the 4L0 LC. I have no idea what size oil tanks they have or the tank size on an F2. Your consumption figure looks like about right and nothing to be concerned about. I would always re-set the trip when I filled the petrol tank. With the LC (3 gallon to reserve tank?) it would go on reserve anytime around 100 miles once dipping to 76 miles with tuning/big jets and Microns. So 33 ish to 25 ish mpg. The LC with a tuned F1 motor in it would always do 120 ish before reserve. So with a motor making more power everywhere it would do 10 ish more mpg. So basically a more efficient engine or carbs? My 31K YPVS with a Stephens production tuned motor and the 31K tank (4 gallons?) was doing 160/170 or maybe more to reserve on a trip to Spain two up with camping gear at around 75/80mph. The guys with us on the GPZ1100 and Z1000 ST had to stop for petrol before I did. I took a couple or three 500ml bottles of two stroke oil with me just in case I couldn't find any but I did buy some as well I think. I remember buying little cans of it in some little village petrol stops. Probably for adding to the tank for pre-mix. |
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Post by steve63 on Mar 10, 2021 14:03:16 GMT 1
Re. premix. 35:1~40:1 is a compromise that's long been excepted for most RD's. A compromise between keeping the engine alive and not getting banned off the roads! At 40:1 your pretty safe on the latter, but for a track day I would use 25:1. Premix is always a compromise, the oil pump provides the correct lubrication for any given scenario. In the MX world there seems to be this thing about mixing petrol weaker i.e. 100ml of oil per 4.5L. I always use 158 or 158ml as per YZ250 Yamaha manual and kinda get sneered at. It seems to be the idea that less oil = more power or rather more petrol from having less oil will make it faster and cleaner. The only study I have seen basically said that more oil equals more lubrication, cooler engine and more power. Obviously there is a limit to how much oil you can put in before everything fouls and won't run and also needlessly wasting oil. I think the KTM manuals state 100ml. Maybe to sell more engine parts  |
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Post by arrow on Mar 10, 2021 14:10:51 GMT 1
I think its fair to say that a lot of the modern engines running premix use very weak mixtures, 100:1 sometimes.
Specific purpose designed oils, modern metallurgy and better machined finishes all come into play here.
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Post by cubber1 on Mar 11, 2021 21:30:56 GMT 1
I doubt it would be anywhere near that at 'normal' road speeds. Even on the track I don't think it would approach 33:1 on an oil pump. I'm sure Arrow will come along and correct me if I'm wrong but you mix 33:1 or 40:1 for worst case scenario, full throttle/max revs. Pump might deliver that at those brief moments but most of the time it will be pumping a fraction of that. The pump will deliver pretty much 20:1 at anything over the 3/4 throttle position. Much less than this just pottering around. We don't need to worry too much about this, as long as everything is set up correctly, ie; correct cable, pulley set to correct mark and minimum stroke set correctly. The Yamaha engineers did all the ground work for us, with regards to specific usage/riding style/oil consumption. Mannanan; your usage is ok, sounds like you are taking it steady on the roads, with not many track days, am I correct? Just one thing though, you say it's set the same as when I sent it back, five years ago. That's excellent, but unusual (although I NEVER get any feed back from people saying they had to add 2 thou or so, at anytime). The first pumps I built have been out there some ten years now and adjustment is expected in that time. As always, give me a call if you need any further assistance. Always here to help. |
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Post by dougw on Mar 12, 2021 12:47:03 GMT 1
Re. premix. 35:1~40:1 is a compromise that's long been excepted for most RD's. A compromise between keeping the engine alive and not getting banned off the roads! At 40:1 your pretty safe on the latter, but for a track day I would use 25:1. Premix is always a compromise, the oil pump provides the correct lubrication for any given scenario. In the MX world there seems to be this thing about mixing petrol weaker i.e. 100ml of oil per 4.5L. I always use 158 or 158ml as per YZ250 Yamaha manual and kinda get sneered at. It seems to be the idea that less oil = more power or rather more petrol from having less oil will make it faster and cleaner. The only study I have seen basically said that more oil equals more lubrication, cooler engine and more power. Obviously there is a limit to how much oil you can put in before everything fouls and won't run and also needlessly wasting oil. I think the KTM manuals state 100ml. Maybe to sell more engine parts The MX world has a lot of idiots. Based on the info from someone who worked destruction testing engines with different oils for a living, and some bloke called Erv Kanemoto, I run the MX bikes on 32:1 , and the 250 enduro lives on 50:1 not KTMs recommended 60:1 (Because I like my engines to live longer, and 50:1 , 2% is easier to calculate . Edited to add . I always jet to to the oil ratio I`m using and stick to Shell Super. Other fuels may or may not be better or have less ethanol, but I stick to what has worked for me. |
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Post by steve63 on Mar 12, 2021 12:58:00 GMT 1
In the MX world there seems to be this thing about mixing petrol weaker i.e. 100ml of oil per 4.5L. I always use 158 or 158ml as per YZ250 Yamaha manual and kinda get sneered at. It seems to be the idea that less oil = more power or rather more petrol from having less oil will make it faster and cleaner. The only study I have seen basically said that more oil equals more lubrication, cooler engine and more power. Obviously there is a limit to how much oil you can put in before everything fouls and won't run and also needlessly wasting oil. I think the KTM manuals state 100ml. Maybe to sell more engine parts The MX world has a lot of idiots. Based on the info from someone who worked destruction testing engines with different oils for a living, and some bloke called Erv Kanemoto, I run the MX bikes on 32:1 , and the 250 enduro lives on 50:1 not KTMs recommended 60:1 (Because I like my engines to live longer, and 50:1 , 2% is easier to calculate . Edited to add . I always jet to to the oil ratio I`m using and stick to Shell Super. Other fuels may or may not be better or have less ethanol, but I stick to what has worked for me. Who's this Kanemoto guy 🤔 Couldn't agree more about the MX scene. Most of them are great and I've had great days and weekends at MX tracks. But there are some Neanderthals. It's my lad that rides not me BTW. I'm too scared. Joking about Erv obviously 😁 Oil is cheaper than a crank. Piston/ring gets changed at 20 hours though anyway. More or less. |
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