|
Post by ERic350 on Jan 26, 2021 19:38:00 GMT 1
Is it possible the carbs freeze. Even tho it's about 5 degrees celcius ? In the past rode my honda v4 with temparatures of -15 degrees celsius without problems. Lately I had a strugle with setting up my bike. During summer it was running without any problems after rebuild, leak test, etc etc. Even got the exhaust of today and checked the pistions / rings. All was oke. Last weeks the bike was running mostly on left cilinder. Right cilinder kept cold. Today I had removed the airbox to have a closer look if I could find the problem. It started first kick. Nice sound but after a minute or so only left got warm, right was cold. Difficult to pick up revs and stopped around 5K rpm. After reving there was a huge black spot on the wall. Smelled like mix of petrol and probably old oil. Initially I thought carb problems. When I looked into the carbs I saw the throttle bodies were white and full of ice. When I tried to open the throttle they throttle bodies didn't close any more. This problem went away after 10 minutes when ice was gone. My TDR250 has heated carbs. But how is it possible to ride the RD with any cold ? Why is it freezing up that quick ? Is this normal ? Did I do something wrong ?
|
|
|
Post by Tobyjugs on Jan 26, 2021 19:51:50 GMT 1
I suffered the same last Sunday around the Maasvlakte, it is really a pain now to set your carbs up due to the cold. They tend to missfire if revving hard and driving I found this even worse on a 900 monster and when i told my mate he said "Ducati's don't like cold feet"
Just bear in mind that if you set your bike up in the summer (very hot this year) you will have to jet up for the winter now as it will be too lean.
|
|
|
Post by ERic350 on Jan 26, 2021 20:07:59 GMT 1
Thanks. Was expecting something like that. At school never liked physics. Now I'm learing by doing Think air was also quite humid. But how is it possible my old bike would work fine with -15 ? Airbox probably will help. And misfiring is like stuttering / gunshots ? That would also explain some. And can it be the left has less difficulty because it was on choke getting a different mixture ?
|
|
|
Post by Tobyjugs on Jan 26, 2021 20:18:19 GMT 1
No gunshots only stuttering and the feeling it's running out of fuel, sound like you might have another problem
Ive only ever had the iced carbs on my RD and the old 900 monster.
All my four cylider bikes air/water cooled have never missbehaved in much colder temperatures,
|
|
|
Post by ERic350 on Jan 26, 2021 20:28:30 GMT 1
If you click on the picture you will see the video on Flickr
|
|
|
Post by kostas on Jan 26, 2021 20:58:36 GMT 1
Thanks. Was expecting something like that. At school never liked physics. Now I'm learing by doing Think air was also quite humid. But how is it possible my old bike would work fine with -15 ? Airbox probably will help. And misfiring is like stuttering / gunshots ? That would also explain some. And can it be the left has less difficulty because it was on choke getting a different mixture ? Of course it should run and not build up ice at -15.. any humidity in the air is already frozen and is just sucked into the engine. +5 to + 10 with humidity is ideal conditions for carb ice .. when air sucked thru the venturi the pressure drops and so does the air temp.. if you add the temp drop from the fuel vaporization then you get carb icing. Aircraft Engine Icing Lesson 101😀😀
|
|
|
Post by ERic350 on Jan 26, 2021 21:04:11 GMT 1
Thanks Kostas. That's the missing piece. Now the circle is round
|
|
|
Post by ERic350 on Jan 29, 2021 13:58:36 GMT 1
About 10 degrees celsius and less moist in the air. Bike starts at first kick and sounds OK! What a difference less than 10 degrees celcius can make. Even the oilpump is working fine. Now wait for better times and get the papers done.
|
|
|
Post by bare on Jan 30, 2021 0:39:41 GMT 1
That's Never happened on My yamaha. Happened semi regularly in my old VW beetle though, as the Long & small diameter Intake tube runners created ideal conditions for Freeze up. Not comprehending a similar situation on a 350 manifold tho. Notably Snow mobiles have few to No such issues either. And If any 2 stroke Contraption could suffer carb freeze up it would be a Snow machine.
|
|
|
Post by rigga on Jan 30, 2021 0:50:37 GMT 1
Unless they have heaters?
Remember Kawasaki introduced some coolant piping around the float bowls way back to combat Carb icing issues, would think preventative measures on vehicle's designed for use in cold conditions would be wise.
|
|
|
Post by johnlam on Jan 30, 2021 2:48:21 GMT 1
Hi , mine has always run really bad if its about to snow . Cant be modern fuel as I have had it since 87 . Last week at night nearly stopped and wouldn't rev over 5000 .
|
|
|
Post by steeley on Jan 30, 2021 7:08:07 GMT 1
Hi , had this happen to me on my 350lc a couple of times about 20plus years ago . My daily commute was about 8mls each way at the time . Throttle froze open about half way ,ended up applying the brakes to get into a safe pull in and let the ice in the carbs melt .
|
|
|
Post by ERic350 on Mar 21, 2021 15:24:10 GMT 1
Still strugling. Recently temp went up. Got the RD350N started. It ran but not great. By coincidence I also started my TZR250 2MA and found out the RD350 was using about 4 times as much petrol That explained all the petrol smelling oil. But why did it get that much petrol? Decided to try another set of carbs. I had a spare set off carbs. Rebuild them. Main 240. Pilots 22,5. Airscrew 1.25 turn out. Throttle stop screw 1 turn out. And put them on. Once I turned on the petrol tap the carbs started to leak petrol. Not where I expected at the bottom of the carb's float bowl but high up?! See first picture. I did some tapping on the float bowls and finally dripping stopped. It got me doubting. Is there a mistake with my tubes on the carb? I was expecting the top one is for petrol overflow and the lower one in front for the oil mixing. As I'm using pre-mix at the moment. Thats why I connected the oil filling nipples together for preventing false air. => Should the oil feeding nipples be blocked separately ? => Should the top nipple be connected for oil feeding and the bottoms used as extra overflow so not connected? Pleeeeeeaase give me a clue.
|
|
|
Post by ERic350 on Mar 21, 2021 17:05:34 GMT 1
First video. Finaly got it running after countless 5 minute kick start sessions it slowly started talking to me. First video is in the beginning. Was running very rude and pusing out oil & petrol. Can also go petrol moving in tube connecting the carbs ? Shouldn't there be air ? Second video. Next I had it run for 5 minutes and started to run better. Third video. Started to listen to the engine and I heard some squeaky noise. Left cylinder. Not sure of it was there in the beginning. Piston ring not moving correctly ? Now give the bike a rest and test it in a few days again. Have a look if the squeak is there from the beginning. If so. Probably have to lift the cylinder head to have a look what's going on :-(
|
|
|
Post by Tobyjugs on Mar 21, 2021 17:10:45 GMT 1
The oil feed lines should be blocked of separately. I have done this by joining them both together with a tube. Inserting a small roller from a bearing in the tube first to keep the separately blocked off.
Which area in Holland are you based?
|
|
|
Post by ERic350 on Mar 21, 2021 17:19:52 GMT 1
Eindhoven de gekste
|
|
|
Post by Tobyjugs on Mar 21, 2021 18:52:09 GMT 1
From your initial post I didn't think it was carbs. Have you checked the ignition?
|
|
|
Post by marrcel on Mar 21, 2021 19:10:47 GMT 1
There are some strange things going on. Last picture lots of air in oil feed lines. Did you bleed the air out of the pump? 2nd if there is lots of fuel coming out of the exhausts there is a problem with the floath valves and probably your benzinekraan petc**k. First sort these issues.
|
|
|
Post by ERic350 on Mar 22, 2021 11:59:11 GMT 1
First the easy ones :-) - Yes. bleeded the oilpump. Air probably explainable as the lines go to a bottle. When engine stops oil drips from highest point of line and air replaces it. I'm not afraid about that. In the future will also measure the amount of oil to see if it's oke. Might even add some oil to the bottle so the line stands in oil and no air can get in the line. - Measured the float valves of previous carb for sure. Not sure about this carb set. Will do this. - There is no benzinekraan. I connect the carbs to an auxillary tank. So no vacuum operation. I've blocked the vacuum line. I expect the floats to stop petrol flow. And if floats operate incorrect I expect to see petrol from the nipple on the bottom of the flow bowl
Will do these things first. Try starting it up another time to hear how it's doing cold. If nothing is solving the issue maybe the ignition. Was asuming the ignition is working or not working. Not much adjustment possible. For that I first have to do some self study. Probably measuring something.
Thanks for the input. Sorry if I give stupid, non-technical reasoning. I want to learn, but I have a non-technical background. To be continued !
|
|
|
Post by marrcel on Mar 22, 2021 17:16:07 GMT 1
Your non return valves of the oilpump are probably clogged if the lines keep dripping.
|
|
ajh
Thrash Merchant
Posts: 415
|
Post by ajh on Mar 22, 2021 18:41:31 GMT 1
Still strugling. Recently temp went up. Got the RD350N started. It ran but not great. By coincidence I also started my TZR250 2MA and found out the RD350 was using about 4 times as much petrol That explained all the petrol smelling oil. But why did it get that much petrol? Decided to try another set of carbs. I had a spare set off carbs. Rebuild them. Main 240. Pilots 22,5. Airscrew 1.25 turn out. Throttle stop screw 1 turn out. And put them on. Once I turned on the petrol tap the carbs started to leak petrol. Not where I expected at the bottom of the carb's float bowl but high up?! See first picture. I did some tapping on the float bowls and finally dripping stopped. It got me doubting. Is there a mistake with my tubes on the carb? I was expecting the top one is for petrol overflow and the lower one in front for the oil mixing. As I'm using pre-mix at the moment. Thats why I connected the oil filling nipples together for preventing false air. => Should the oil feeding nipples be blocked separately ? => Should the top nipple be connected for oil feeding and the bottoms used as extra overflow so not connected? Pleeeeeeaase give me a clue. youre pointing to the carb breather, it just vents the carb. Im not 100% familiar with your carb model but I think I can see the fuel overflow pipe in your picture and it looks full of fuel so your needle valve is not seating or your float heights are wrong. Its the pipe at the base of the carb on the bowl just ot be sure Id blank your oil feeds separately but if you do join them together, I dont think its going to make much difference because you have a balance pipe anyway
|
|
|
Post by midlifecrisisrd on Mar 22, 2021 19:03:25 GMT 1
If you have fuel coming out that vent pipe I think you have a bigger problem than the float valves not sealing
The vent is a vertical passageway from the float bowl area to let air in and out as the fuel level changes. The air correction circuit and jet is also connected via the passageway blocked off by the brass ball
To get fuel from it the emulsion tube area must be blocked as it would be expected to flood into the engine as the tube is well below the vent area
In theory it should overflow out the bottom tube (which does show fuel in your picture) but often it floods into the crank cases
Those carbs need to come off and get stripped
Steve
|
|
|
Post by ERic350 on Mar 22, 2021 19:33:15 GMT 1
Thanks gents. Fuel in bottom overflow line is correct. I always check if newly fitted carbs are filled by shortly opening the bottom screw of flood bowl.
Both sets of Carbs were ultra sonicly cleaned. I also had a bad feeling of fuel pooring out that high of the carb but couldn't explain. And it happened on both carb sets. That is quite a coincidence.
Anyway. Will get them off and check the passageways. Check float level again. Seperate block oil feed lines. And Ultra sonic time !
|
|
|
Post by ERic350 on Mar 22, 2021 19:40:08 GMT 1
Check question. In the balance pipe I could see the petrol moving. You can see this in the first video of yesterday. Was expecting air and maybe petrol fume. Is petrol in balance pipe normal ?
|
|
|
Post by ERic350 on Mar 22, 2021 19:58:08 GMT 1
Ckecked beather at the float bowl by blowing vent on bottom float bowl. No blockage. Blowing vent pipe on top of carb gives airstream at top of floatbowl. So no blockage. Concluding petrol is pressurised from float bowl to top vent pipe ?
I hang the auxillary tank about 2 meters above the ground. Can it be that this heigt difference is resulting in additional pressure, so much pressure petrol flows the way of the least resistance via the vent pipe ?! Never had this problem with TZR.
Temps are rising comming days. Will try to test with auxillary tank hanging lower. Will also do other checks as float level.
|
|
ajh
Thrash Merchant
Posts: 415
|
Post by ajh on Mar 22, 2021 20:08:47 GMT 1
Check question. In the balance pipe I could see the petrol moving. You can see this in the first video of yesterday. Was expecting air and maybe petrol fume. Is petrol in balance pipe normal ? what balance pipe? If you mean youve joined oil nozzles then I 'think' they exit on the floor of the inlet trac so maybe fuel running into them? (Without looking at the carb I cant remember exactly where the passage holes are) I wouldnt expect your bike to idle/run if you have fuel coming out of the carb vent. And if your float height or needle valve were wrong it would be pissing out of the floatbowl overflow pipe/nozzle. Unless thats blocked? Weird!
|
|
|
Post by midlifecrisisrd on Mar 22, 2021 20:18:46 GMT 1
The oil holes from those spigots are at the bottom Just in front of the slides
Suggests fuel is running there as well
Steve
|
|
ajh
Thrash Merchant
Posts: 415
|
Post by ajh on Mar 22, 2021 20:21:54 GMT 1
just had a thought, youre overflow pipes arent routed above the carb bowls are they? If they are then the fuel level will keep on rising if its flooding
|
|
|
Post by tony2stroke on Mar 22, 2021 20:32:19 GMT 1
I have not read all through this, but looking at your vid, I am wondering, you say balance pipe (clear 1 you show in vid with fuel clearly going back and forth with air bubbles) this I am thinking is your choke link from 1 side to the other, the fact you put choke on and seamed like no difference, and if I am right about the choke link not balance pipe, then the choke is not shutting off, there should not be fuel trying to cross over to the other side when choke is off.
Personally I would blank off the carbs oil intake nipples individually as your using pre mix, I think you said that anyway, otherwise it will draw from the other side same as a balance pipe, just a small amount, but still draw extra from other side, you are way rich and I think these 2 things are causing it.
|
|
|
Post by ERic350 on Mar 22, 2021 20:35:43 GMT 1
Check question. In the balance pipe I could see the petrol moving. You can see this in the first video of yesterday. Was expecting air and maybe petrol fume. Is petrol in balance pipe normal ? what balance pipe? If you mean youve joined oil nozzles then I 'think' they exit on the floor of the inlet trac so maybe fuel running into them? (Without looking at the carb I cant remember exactly where the passage holes are) I wouldnt expect your bike to idle/run if you have fuel coming out of the carb vent. And if your float height or needle valve were wrong it would be pissing out of the floatbowl overflow pipe/nozzle. Unless thats blocked? Weird! Sorry if I cause confusion. This is what I mean with balance pipes. Could see petrol / air bubbles moving when bike was running. Was expecting air and petrol vapour.
|
|