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Post by lcmarky on Dec 16, 2020 10:02:49 GMT 1
I'm about to put my LC motor back together and have Norbo's gear selector shaft bush to prevent the play.
Is it also worth putting a bush on the clutch basket side too?
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Post by midlifecrisisrd on Dec 16, 2020 11:03:00 GMT 1
Never seen one wear there
Also be careful reeming out the case. The case Only wears at the bottom so the case needs jigged so you are cutting central to the original hole
Steve
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Post by lcmarky on Dec 16, 2020 12:11:38 GMT 1
Good point Steve.
I'll have a look at the now oversized hole to see if I can locate the reaming drill correctly. There's not much play so might be OK with a pillar drill.
I guess the correct way is to clock the shaft is vertical and clamp down the case having located the centre of the hole nearest the selector mechanism.
Aside of this task, I've ordered myself a milling machine and lathe which I now have to wait for to be delivered, but could really do with it now!!
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Post by billbott on Dec 16, 2020 13:05:00 GMT 1
I made a bronze bush that is a tap fit into the seal housing: the bore of this is a close fit on the shaft and is counterbored at the end to carry the seal. This steadies the gearchange and also moves the seal to a different point on the selector shaft so the worn section does not pass any oil. I just had to shorten the nylon sleeve to accommodate it. While I was at it I also fitted a new bush in the stator casing too so no play in the shaft at all.
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Post by lcmarky on Dec 16, 2020 13:08:50 GMT 1
I made a bronze bush that is a tap fit into the seal housing: the bore of this is a close fit on the shaft and is counterbored at the end to carry the seal. This steadies the gearchange and also moves the seal to a different point on the selector shaft so the worn section does not pass any oil. I just had to shorten the nylon sleeve to accommodate it. While I was at it I also fitted a new bush in the stator casing too so no play in the shaft at all. Yep, sounds like a robust fix.. I have this plus some other machining jobs to do on my Montesa 247 that I may just wait until my machine tools turn up for..
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Post by billbott on Dec 16, 2020 13:11:04 GMT 1
I made a bronze bush that is a tap fit into the seal housing: the bore of this is a close fit on the shaft and is counterbored at the end to carry the seal. This steadies the gearchange and also moves the seal to a different point on the selector shaft so the worn section does not pass any oil. I just had to shorten the nylon sleeve to accommodate it. While I was at it I also fitted a new bush in the stator casing too so no play in the shaft at all. Yep, sounds like a robust fix.. I have this plus some other machining jobs to do on my Montesa 247 that I may just wait until my machine tools turn up for.. Added a picture for you
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Post by midlifecrisisrd on Dec 16, 2020 13:20:07 GMT 1
If reaming the case Bill's idea with the bush is good as a guide
If you made a bush that locates in the seal area out of stainless with a centre hole just under the bush OD you could drill it using the bush as a centralizing guide then ream out the case to the correct size for the bush
Steve
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Post by lcmarky on Dec 16, 2020 13:20:35 GMT 1
Nice work - thanks billbott!
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Post by beardy on Dec 16, 2020 13:58:49 GMT 1
I made a bronze bush that is a tap fit into the seal housing: the bore of this is a close fit on the shaft and is counterbored at the end to carry the seal. This steadies the gearchange and also moves the seal to a different point on the selector shaft so the worn section does not pass any oil. I just had to shorten the nylon sleeve to accommodate it. While I was at it I also fitted a new bush in the stator casing too so no play in the shaft at all. I like that. There could be a market for something like that. I’d buy one if you ever feel inclined to make some.
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Post by earthman on Dec 16, 2020 15:01:50 GMT 1
I made a bronze bush that is a tap fit into the seal housing: the bore of this is a close fit on the shaft and is counterbored at the end to carry the seal. This steadies the gearchange and also moves the seal to a different point on the selector shaft so the worn section does not pass any oil. I just had to shorten the nylon sleeve to accommodate it. While I was at it I also fitted a new bush in the stator casing too so no play in the shaft at all. Nice job, have you thought about making similar for the outer cover too? That hole seems to wear, that shaft is just too long and could do with some support there I feel??
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Post by midlifecrisisrd on Dec 16, 2020 15:03:03 GMT 1
Thought there was a guy making these already?
Steve
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Post by midlifecrisisrd on Dec 16, 2020 15:05:41 GMT 1
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Post by billbott on Dec 16, 2020 16:49:53 GMT 1
I made a bronze bush that is a tap fit into the seal housing: the bore of this is a close fit on the shaft and is counterbored at the end to carry the seal. This steadies the gearchange and also moves the seal to a different point on the selector shaft so the worn section does not pass any oil. I just had to shorten the nylon sleeve to accommodate it. While I was at it I also fitted a new bush in the stator casing too so no play in the shaft at all. Nice job, have you thought about making similar for the outer cover too? That hole seems to wear, that shaft is just too long and could do with some support there I feel?? There is already a bush in the outer casing so I pressed it out, measured up and bought one off the shelf to suit – its perfect now. I used a similar idea on my GPz, the gearchange lever also has a bush (possibly even the same size…) which when changed totally eradicates all the slop. If…you wanted to bush the casing itself, you're better off boring it on centre on a miller rather than wafting your black & decker in it, unless you make a guide bush which locates in the seal bore – as make that you may as well use my idea. As an aside, I also used a gearchange seal from a DR350 as it has a double lip and is only marginally wider.
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Post by lcmarky on Dec 17, 2020 10:42:42 GMT 1
If reaming the case Bill's idea with the bush is good as a guide If you made a bush that locates in the seal area out of stainless with a centre hole just under the bush OD you could drill it using the bush as a centralizing guide then ream out the case to the correct size for the bush Steve Yes - good idea. The guide bush could also be mild steel & I reckon the through hole needs to be a thou or so oversize for the 14mm reamer drill so as not to catch and spin which could damage the casing. If it was a top hat design it could be easily extracted too and offer more alignment pre contact. I'd use a diameter 13.6mm or 13.7mm HSS drill for the 14mm reamer, which would work for me as my casing isn't too worn. For more severe cases and to recover the now elliptical hole it could need a more oversized hole and custom bush which is simple enough. Think I'll do both sides of mine when my kit arrives..
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Gord
Drag-strip hero
Posts: 233
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Post by Gord on Dec 22, 2020 3:17:39 GMT 1
I put a bushing in the case when I did mine. If the hole on the case side is sloppy at all it’ll be exaggerated on the inner bushing.
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Post by steeley on Dec 22, 2020 5:21:59 GMT 1
Saw this but always my luck months after i did the job .
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Post by dusty350 on Dec 22, 2020 8:32:21 GMT 1
I agree, it's an essential mod to do, and always worth doing when the engine is next apart. Which leads me to wonder why I didn't do the bush mod on my 400e engine when I was rebuilding it ? I probably thought the exit hole in the case looked ok, or maybe I had a brain fart, I dont know, but now I am messing around with the gear change mechanism for the rearsets, I'm finding there is some play in the gearshaft that will put the new seal under pressure. No leaks at the mo but maybe in use ? So I looked at the external bush fix that I bought off ebay some months back; 20200410_192411 by dusty miller, on Flickr These work perfectly for the Lc, but the Ac bikes have a retaining circlip and washer on the shaft to stop side ways movement. The clutch case has the cast post that presses against the right end of the gear shaft, same as the Lc/Pv, so I guess the circlip is overkill. Removing the circlip and washer proves you cant push the shaft far enough to the right to disengage it from the selector mechanism, as the post in the casing stops it. So, should be good, but, the groove for the circlip looks like it will sit right where the new seal wants to sit I haven't measured properly, just lined it up by eye but I'm not hopeful. So the first thing I'm going to do is bush the outer cover. There is definitely slop in that, so having fitted a roller bearing in an Lc outer case before, I went to Simply Bearings to see what they had. I've bought a bush 12mm id, 17mm od and 25mm long. I do already have a bush that would work, but that's shorter; 20201219_131640 by dusty miller, on Flickr I think the longer bush will give extra support, and will protrude on the chain side of the casing, and still fit without modding the rubber boot that covers the gearchange shaft. I will get my engineering guys to drill the hole and press it in, early new year hopefully. We will see if it makes a difference ! Dusty
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Post by lb on Dec 23, 2020 1:35:19 GMT 1
Webike sells a selector support arm bracket type deal...
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Post by sharpey on Dec 23, 2020 2:49:24 GMT 1
Webike sells a selector support arm bracket type deal... Sounds interesting... got a link? Couldn't find with a google search.
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Post by lb on Dec 24, 2020 1:22:52 GMT 1
Webike sells a selector support arm bracket type deal... Sounds interesting... got a link? Couldn't find with a google search. Found it..........says RZ but you can do same in the LC aly side cover. japan.webike.net/products/24104690.html
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Post by sidney81 on Dec 24, 2020 18:55:40 GMT 1
that looks cool 😎 nice and strong
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Post by billbott on Dec 31, 2020 11:00:40 GMT 1
Like the look of that. Could be another lockdown job for me. Once I’ve finished the starter chain tensioner mod on my GPz... There is a shift support bracket made for my MT10 by Race Torque which is supposed to make a big difference although I’ve not tried it as mine is still pretty new.
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Post by bushmaster on Feb 14, 2021 19:30:07 GMT 1
I recently bought my old 1980 RD350LC back from my brother to restore it and get it back on the road. One of the problems is that there's a lot of oil leakage near the gear selector shaft that absolutely needs to be fixed. From the discussion in this thread it looks like the problem can be fixed without the need to disassemble the engine. Am I right? Or are there other better fixes?
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Post by midlifecrisisrd on Feb 14, 2021 19:33:16 GMT 1
Personally I'd so it properly
Your bike has been standing long enough that I'd want to inspect it and fit new seals
I'd get the case milled and the Teflon bush fitted at that point
Steve
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Post by JonW on Feb 15, 2021 0:38:48 GMT 1
I recently bought my old 1980 RD350LC back from my brother to restore it and get it back on the road. One of the problems is that there's a lot of oil leakage near the gear selector shaft that absolutely needs to be fixed. From the discussion in this thread it looks like the problem can be fixed without the need to disassemble the engine. Am I right? Or are there other better fixes? Im with Steve on this Fred. You need to do your crank seals anyway as I suspect they have never been changed. These are easy engines, once you start you will wonder what you were scared of. Have a search on here for Dusty's engine thread, shows the process very well. If you need it you can fit a new shift shaft from the ypvs/banshee (buy it for cheap from Yamaha dealers the usa, not in uk/eu).
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Post by bushmaster on Feb 15, 2021 20:05:38 GMT 1
Why use the shaft from a ypvs/banshee? Is it a direct replacement? What is the part number? I'm not sure whether it will be cheaper buying it in the US than in the UK. Since the Brexit I noticed that buying stuff in the UK is much more expensive now (VAT, import duties,...). It can add up to quite a number...
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Post by jessy03 on Feb 15, 2021 20:17:04 GMT 1
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Post by midlifecrisisrd on Feb 15, 2021 20:27:28 GMT 1
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Post by Tobyjugs on Feb 15, 2021 20:36:35 GMT 1
I recently bought my old 1980 RD350LC back from my brother to restore it and get it back on the road. One of the problems is that there's a lot of oil leakage near the gear selector shaft that absolutely needs to be fixed. From the discussion in this thread it looks like the problem can be fixed without the need to disassemble the engine. Am I right? Or are there other better fixes? First inspect it and find out why its leaking. Your outer side casing is aluminium and it would be best to bush this one first as it will give the most support to your selector shaft. As mentioned before this a very easy job for PSTuning in Geldermalsen. If you live close by it can be done in the evening.
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Post by bushmaster on Feb 16, 2021 18:34:47 GMT 1
What's wrong with original gear shift shaft? Is the banshee part a direct replacement?
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