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Post by peddrotzr on Oct 15, 2020 18:45:11 GMT 1
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Post by veg on Oct 15, 2020 19:26:53 GMT 1
Time for him to hang up his helmet. I wonder who else may get it?
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Post by peddrotzr on Oct 15, 2020 19:29:01 GMT 1
Time for him to hang up his helmet. I wonder who else may get it? If Lorenzo had got his $#1t together at the last test then he may have got the ride but was miles off the pace.
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Post by Tobyjugs on Oct 15, 2020 19:36:01 GMT 1
This is such a strange virus. I met someone today and he's just come out of quarantine. His wife was diagnosed positive so the family have been shut up together and the two children and him never caught it from his wife.
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Post by earthman on Oct 15, 2020 19:52:54 GMT 1
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Post by veg on Oct 15, 2020 19:57:16 GMT 1
My mate and his wife got it they are super super fit mid 50’s nearly killed both of them their kids live at home didn’t get it. It’s nasty shit is all I know.
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Post by steve h on Oct 15, 2020 20:40:26 GMT 1
My mate and his wife got it they are super super fit mid 50’s nearly killed both of them their kids live at home didn’t get it. It’s nasty shit is all I know. My Mrs's best mate is now terminal... thanks to policy and not getting the care she needed when it was needed. And many more are going to be killed the same way. Cancelling treatment and shutting up shop is wrong. Done to protect who?? certainly not if you have cancer.. and you don't know it yet. I've been there... 3 cancelations.. painful aggressive b*****d doing damage.. and all before this imported virus hit us, so it must be one hell of a lot worse for folks now, not just the pain but also the mental anguish... Meanwhile the minions are still partying and mixing and anything else they care to do.
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Post by earthman on Oct 15, 2020 20:58:00 GMT 1
My mate and his wife got it they are super super fit mid 50’s nearly killed both of them their kids live at home didn’t get it. It’s nasty shit is all I know. My Mrs's best mate is now terminal... thanks to policy and not getting the care she needed when it was needed. And many more are going to be killed the same way. Cancelling treatment and shutting up shop is wrong. Done to protect who?? My manager at work said the other week that his hospital told his dad not to come in for his cancer treatment, he can only have a telephone consultation now,....unbelievable! I toatlly agree, shutting up shop/closing down the economy is not the answer to this.
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Post by chrisg on Oct 16, 2020 12:58:26 GMT 1
This is such a strange virus. I met someone today and he's just come out of quarantine. His wife was diagnosed positive so the family have been shut up together and the two children and him never caught it from his wife. Was he tested? Many people are getting cv19 and not showing symptoms but still pass it on. I think kids will turn out to be super spreaders👻 My wife works in a school and has 120 kids in her “safety” bubble, absolutely ridiculous. Some kids in the school were tested positive and the bubble were sent home, but not the teacher or support staff WTF. My 2 oldest daughters are teachers and from what I observe is that head teachers are making rules up as they go along, just to keep the school.
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Post by earthman on Oct 16, 2020 19:44:03 GMT 1
This is such a strange virus. I met someone today and he's just come out of quarantine. His wife was diagnosed positive so the family have been shut up together and the two children and him never caught it from his wife. Was he tested? Many people are getting cv19 and not showing symptoms but still pass it on. I think kids will turn out to be super spreaders👻 My wife works in a school and has 120 kids in her “safety” bubble, absolutely ridiculous. Some kids in the school were tested positive and the bubble were sent home, but not the teacher or support staff WTF. My 2 oldest daughters are teachers and from what I observe is that head teachers are making rules up as they go along, just to keep the school. To be fair governments have been making up rules as they go along too. Why are they not even listening to this band of health scientists etc is beyond me,.....isn't it about time that they did/try another path at least! gbdeclaration.org/
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Post by chrisg on Oct 16, 2020 20:29:35 GMT 1
I think the biggest problem is people not obeying the rules that we have. Liverpool is in the top band restriction, however all the teenagers get on the evening train to Manchester to party 🥳 unbelievable We need the police and army to step up and enforce the rules, that if they understand them
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Post by earthman on Oct 16, 2020 20:55:00 GMT 1
The biggest problem is that the majority of these rules just don't make any sense, that's why folk are not obeying them and especially after so many government bods have broken these rules themselves, they obviously don't believe in them themselves so why should the general public?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2020 6:38:15 GMT 1
New Zealand got rid of the virus by putting in place isolation techniques and limiting movement of population for a period of a few months, borders were closed and the advice of the health boffins was adhered to
And guess what it worked !
Read the article by Anna Jones of the BBC on July 9th and you will see how it was possible for NZ to get rid of the virus
I doubt Lew Rockwell cherry picking one line from a 54 page document by the FDA is 100% proof that we haven't isolated the virus
I think the whole document should be read and understood
This next piece is taken from a paper in South Korea with regards to a patients that presented with symptoms of pneumonia, I think it debunks Rockwells' theory
"Objectives Following reports of patients with unexplained pneumonia at the end of December 2019 in Wuhan, China, the causative agent was identified as coronavirus (SARS-CoV-2), and the 2019 novel coronavirus disease was named COVID-19 by the World Health Organization. Putative patients with COVID-19 have been identified in South Korea, and attempts have been made to isolate the pathogen from these patients.
Methods Upper and lower respiratory tract secretion samples from putative patients with COVID-19 were inoculated onto cells to isolate the virus. Full genome sequencing and electron microscopy were used to identify the virus.
Results The virus replicated in Vero cells and cytopathic effects were observed. Full genome sequencing showed that the virus genome exhibited sequence homology of more than 99.9% with SARS-CoV-2 which was isolated from patients from other countries, for instance China. Sequence homology of SARS-CoV-2 with SARS-CoV, and MERS-CoV was 77.5% and 50%, respectively. Coronavirus-specific morphology was observed by electron microscopy in virus-infected Vero cells.
Conclusion SARS-CoV-2 was isolated from putative patients with unexplained pneumonia and intermittent coughing and fever. The isolated virus was named BetaCoV/Korea/KCDC03/2020.
Introduction Coronavirus is an RNA virus consisting of positive-sense single-stranded RNA of approximately 27–32 kb. Coronavirus belong to the family Coronaviridae, which comprises of alpha, beta, delta, and gamma coronaviruses [1,2]. As the name indicates, the spherical external spike protein displays a characteristic crown shape when observed under an electron microscope [3,4]. The virus is known to infect a wide range of hosts including humans, other mammals, and birds. Infected hosts exhibit different clinical courses, ranging from asymptomatic to severe symptoms in their respiratory, digestive, and genital organs [1,2]. There are 6 known coronaviruses that typically cause infection in humans. Among these, coronavirus 229E, OC43, NL63, and HKU1 generally cause mild cold-like symptoms, whereas severe acute respiratory syndrome-coronavirus (SARS-CoV) in 2003, and Middle East respiratory syndrome-coronavirus (MERS-CoV) in 2012, caused severe respiratory diseases such as pneumonia and death [5,6].
Following the first outbreaks of unexplained pneumonia in Wuhan, China, in late 2019, a new coronavirus was identified as the causative agent in January 2020 [7]. As of February 11th, 2020, a total of 45,000 cases of pneumonia, have been reported from 26 countries, including China. Approximately 96.8% of all cases have been reported in China, and patients in the Hubei province account for 75% of all cases [8–10]. In Korea, the first case was reported on January 20, 2020, when SARS-CoV-2 was detected in a traveller entering Korea from Wuhan, China [11].
This study reports the full genome sequencing of SARS-CoV-2 isolated from putative the 2019 novel coronavirus disease (COVID-19) patients in Korea, by cell culture. The isolated SARS-CoV-2 was named BetaCoV/Korea/KCDC03/2020."
Viruses can either have DNA or RNA as their base, just because we only have the RNA doesn't mean that we don't have the means to detect it, no detection method is 100% perfect, however it gives us a base point, and as this virus has already mutated it makes it more difficult to test, from the medical article above they have isolated the virus, a complete contradiction to Lew Rockwell, and my research is going to be contradicted with more quotes from opposing sides
If you have had the virus and recovered from it you can still come up with fragments of the virus in a test and the result says you are positive, depending on when the test is performed, ie if it is within the hour of you inhaling the virus, then I doubt it will show up on a test as the virus hasn't had time to start replicating at a high enough rate to be detected, leave it for a day or so and all sorts of alarm bells will go off
The language in the FDA document quoted in an other post is pretty technical and I don't suggest for one minute that I understand it all, that said I doubt that the medical fraternity don't know what they are talking about, after all it worked in New Zealand, it worked in W Australia where I'am, S Australia, Northern Territory, to a lesser extent in Queensland and NSW, and not at all in Victoria
The reasons why it didn't work in Victoria was that small parts of the population didn't stick to what was being asked of them, left their homes went travelling and otherwise spread the virus, contact tracing proved this and also proved from which parts of Victoria it came from, in other words it's Genome
Now on to Lew Rockwell, his description is as follows
Llewellyn Harrison Rockwell Jr. (born July 1, 1944) is an American author, editor, and political consultant. A libertarian and a self-professed anarcho-capitalist,[1] he founded (and is the chairman of) the Ludwig von Mises Institute, a non-profit dedicated to promoting the Austrian School of economics. His website, LewRockwell.com, which began in 1999, features articles and blog entries by right-wing libertarian columnists and writers
I don't think that believing what an Anarcho Capitalist says is a wise choice, neither too Right wing columnists, or for that matter Left- wings too
I'd prefer to listen to medical advice from properly qualified people, for example the publication Lancet, one of the most unbiased publication's that is held in the highest regard around the world
It is easy to find people that don't agree that the virus exists, until they get it that is, prime example Donald Trump, in one way I'm glad he got the virus, in another way I'm glad he recovered, it may let him put a different view of it on the table
Again everyone has the right to their own opinion, rightly or wrongly this is mine
I believe the virus exists and I believe in the science as to how to rid the earth of it, by social distancing, the wearing of masks, the washing of surfaces and the closure of borders to limit the spread of the virus
Yes I agree that it causes great economic harm, however, and this is a very big IF, IF the virus eradicates us the population then there is no economy because there will be few people to work in it and if you don't have people then who do you have
Take Care, Stay Safe and Stay well
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Post by pdxjim on Oct 17, 2020 9:49:20 GMT 1
^ It's true.
Us over here are spiking again.
Smart places at most of the outlines of the map are stable, but the stupid people towards the middle and bottom parts are fcuking it up for the rest.
Our election is coming soon.
Fcuk.
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Post by earthman on Oct 17, 2020 9:50:52 GMT 1
I certainly prefer to listen to medical advice from properly qualified people too, why are governments/some folk ignoring what these other qualified doctors and scientists are saying too then??
To me it's pretty clear that more harm than good is being done here, yet they are still going down the same old path,.....we have 23 bigger problems than covid19, why aren't these being addressed now??
Locking ourselves away/destroy the economy for anything else that had such a low percentage rate to the vast majority of the population would be irrational and illogical yet we have/are doing it for this. Unbelievable.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2020 10:35:19 GMT 1
The first two lines to your last statement seems to contradict what you have posted lately
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Post by veg on Oct 17, 2020 10:37:42 GMT 1
^ It's true. Us over here are spiking again. Smart places at most of the outlines of the map are stable, but the stupid people towards the middle and bottom parts are fcuking it up for the rest. Our election is coming soon. Fcuk. Please America do the right thing
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Post by chrisg on Oct 17, 2020 11:37:01 GMT 1
I think Boris is out of his depth. Health officials saying one thing and financial guys saying opposite. On question time this week, apparently there was a pole regarding Boris and people were asked if he was a car or an animal what would Boris be? Sheep , was the reply. This would be funny if this wasn’t that serious.
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Post by earthman on Oct 17, 2020 21:04:27 GMT 1
The first two lines to your last statement seems to contradict what you have posted lately No, not at all. After more than half the year of listening to one band of 'experts' who have clearly got it wrong now, why aren't the government/some folk willing to give the other band of experts a chance? I know I am.
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Post by veg on Oct 17, 2020 21:22:23 GMT 1
Yet to see any counter arguments that stack up. When I want a tooth extracted I see a dentist not an optician, when I fly I want a trained pilot not someone who can fly Microsoft flight simulator. I read up what is stated by scientists that specialise in the field. Everyone is an armchair expert yet no one has come up with compelling arguments for other actions. Have we got it right? Nope could it be worse hell yes. Does our government get it right ? Nope because they are playing a political game of expediency, are our scientific advisors better informed I believe so.
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Post by earthman on Oct 17, 2020 21:45:02 GMT 1
Great Barrington Declaration, plenty of 'armchair experts' started that hey. I'm just a 'man on the street' but this Dr's arguments certainly seem to stack up to me.
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Post by donkeychomp on Oct 17, 2020 21:55:57 GMT 1
There is one question that as far as I know has yet to be asked in any publication or news programme and if it has been asked there has been no satisfactory answer.
Why? Why is the entire planet facing an economic meltdown because of a virus? OK as viruses go it's a nasty one but to risk financial breakdown and perhaps the collapse of our way of life...is it worth it? Don't get me wrong I feel for all the people who have died from this, but I also feel for the people who die every day from cancer, heart problems etc.
So...anyone know why?
Alex
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Post by earthman on Oct 17, 2020 22:02:54 GMT 1
The BBC/main media have a lot to answer to I feel, this guy looks at their article on 'Covid: How Worried Should We Be?'
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Post by midlifecrisisrd on Oct 17, 2020 22:16:30 GMT 1
There is one question that as far as I know has yet to be asked in any publication or news programme and if it has been asked there has been no satisfactory answer. Why? Why is the entire planet facing an economic meltdown because of a virus? OK as viruses go it's a nasty one but to risk financial breakdown and perhaps the collapse of our way of life...is it worth it? Don't get me wrong I feel for all the people who have died from this, but I also feel for the people who die every day from cancer, heart problems etc. So...anyone know why? Alex I reckon there is only one reason Any politician or country leader who says money is more important than lives is ruined If your wife or child was going to die and you were told there was a way of saving them but you would have to give up your job, your house and all your savings I think I know which most decent people would choose Steve
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Post by earthman on Oct 17, 2020 22:36:53 GMT 1
There is one question that as far as I know has yet to be asked in any publication or news programme and if it has been asked there has been no satisfactory answer. Why? Why is the entire planet facing an economic meltdown because of a virus? OK as viruses go it's a nasty one but to risk financial breakdown and perhaps the collapse of our way of life...is it worth it? Don't get me wrong I feel for all the people who have died from this, but I also feel for the people who die every day from cancer, heart problems etc. So...anyone know why? Alex I reckon there is only one reason Any politician or country leader who says money is more important than lives is ruined If your wife or child was going to die and you were told there was a way of saving them but you would have to give up your job, your house and all your savings I think I know which most decent people would choose Steve In the case of my manager at work, if/when his dad dies because he can't get his cancer treatment due to all this, won't these politicians be ruined that way too? He's just the tip of the ice berg I'm sure, reports of hospitals in London turning away sick children, surely no parent will vote for these politicians afterwards??
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Post by midlifecrisisrd on Oct 17, 2020 23:03:55 GMT 1
No matter which way they decide someone is f*cked
Its an impossible decision
May be different when there is no money left but while they can afford to shut bits of the economy down...
Steve
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Post by urbantangleweed on Oct 17, 2020 23:13:15 GMT 1
He's had a year to forget that's for sure.
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Post by earthman on Oct 17, 2020 23:16:36 GMT 1
May be different when there is no money left but while they can afford to shut bits of the economy down... Steve I think that we've come to that point already, the likes of Andy Burnham are fighting to keep what businesses etc that have survived so far to stay open,.....there's other cities that are in the same boat, hope that these people make the government see sense.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 18, 2020 3:49:08 GMT 1
Experts Forcefully Push Back on Barrington Declaration October 16, 2020 John Parkinson
Relevant Topics A letter signed by 80 researchers says the concept put forth by the Great Barrington Declaration is “a dangerous fallacy.”
The herd immunity approach championed by the Great Barrington Declaration would, if actually put into practice, prove disastrous for society as a whole and the healthcare system in particular. That’s the message in a memorandum that was written by 80 international researchers and published in The Lancet this week. That open letter, called the John Snow Memorandum, warns that a herd immunity approach to managing COVID-19 by allowing immunity to develop in low-risk populations while protecting the most vulnerable is “a dangerous fallacy unsupported by the scientific evidence.” That’s also a point made by Kevin Kavanagh, MD, a member of Infection Control Today®’s Editorial Advisory Board in his rebuttal to the Declaration.
Kavanagh wrote that “for infection preventionists and frontline healthcare workers, the Great Barrington Declaration places their lives and livelihood at risk.”
The authors of the John Snow Memorandum come from a variety of medical specialties including public health, epidemiology, medicine, pediatrics, sociology, virology, infectious disease, health systems, psychology, psychiatry, health policy, and mathematical modeling.
In the memorandum, the authors speak of success in some countries who have employed COVID-19 containment strategies.
“Japan, Vietnam, and New Zealand, to name a few countries, have shown that robust public health responses can control transmission, allowing life to return to near-normal, and there are many such success stories,” the authors wrote in the memorandum.
They also advocated for the continued approach to minimize risk of transmission. “The evidence is very clear: controlling community spread of COVID-19 is the best way to protect our societies and economies until safe and effective vaccines and therapeutics arrive within the coming months. We cannot afford distractions that undermine an effective response; it is essential that we act urgently based on the evidence.”
The memorandum authors did acknowledge that ongoing restrictions have understandably led to widespread demoralization and diminishing trust among the public, and that in the face of a second wave of infection there is renewed interest in natural herd immunity approaches.
However, they say any pandemic management strategy relying upon immunity from natural infections for COVID-19 is flawed.
Back in August, Infection Control Today®’s sister publication, Contagion®, spoke to one of the declaration’s authors, Martin Kulldorff, PhD, Professor of Medicine at Harvard Medical School & Brigham and Women’s Hospital. He spoke on a number of topics including the age-targeted approach to dealing with COVID-19.
So there you go there’s a piece that was put into the Lancet debunking the Barrington declaration
Again we are seeing people being hoodwinked by basically ally one line statements, to which a whole amount of disinformation is attached, and that information is actually untrue, Carl Vernon too is not medically trained
If all these theories that they spurt out work, then why did New Zealand, Vietnam and Japan manage to control and defeat the virus
Simple, they listened to their health advice, put the whole country in isolation, except for essential food, medicine etc, wore masks and social distancing
A virus needs a host to spread from one host to another and so on to survive, if you break that cycle the virus has nowhere to go and it dies off, that’s how it works
With regard to cancer patients, it was suggested, that it would be better for them to stay at home because their immunosuppressive response was extremely low, in other words they were in more danger to getting this and other viruses by attending hospital for treatment than they were whilst staying at home,cancer patients were 5 times more likely to get the virus and die if they contracted the disease, it’s a horrible decision to make
That was part of the conundrum, the other part was how do we keep control of the virus, the medical advice was to have social distancing, only go out for essentials and where possible wear a mask
Unless you were an essential worker it was advised that you stay at home, all these ideas worked for the countries that defeated Covid, those that sought to do it differently have massive problems of people becoming extremely ill and unfortunately lots of deaths
Unfortunately we have people in the world that do not think the virus exists, they do not believe that it can kill and it’s just another flu and the issue is the squeaky wheel gets the most oil
We will always find nay sayers if we look, it takes a lot of looking to separate fact from fiction
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Post by earthman on Oct 18, 2020 19:39:02 GMT 1
Carl Vernon's never claimed to have come from a medical background, he's just one of the thousands of citizens who are speaking up/noticing that lots of aspects/measures taken over this one virus aren't right.
Here are what I feel are some good points/comments made by other folk on his video.
"The police have now been granted access to your details. Anyone who downloaded this app have brought this upon themselves. We knew this was coming but people are just thick!"
"This is why I didn't download the stupid app in the first place."
"Police have been told.. don't download the app. For security reasons. By their own federation..says it all."
Veg, I'm asking you again, can you clarify exactly what these security reasons are then? Not being funny but if a cop should have caught this virus/be isolating like the rest of us, shouldn't he/she know about it? Surely removing them from duty so that they don't then spread it to members of the public is paramount wouldn't you say?
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