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Post by JonW on Oct 9, 2020 0:34:31 GMT 1
Im looking to graft some TZR 2MA mirrors onto an F2 (yeah I know they arent great mirrors but Im being 'different' lol) Anyway... I need to know a bit more about the TZR mounts on the birdcage and while I can see some grainy pics on ebay ads etc for the brackets (and the same ends on other bikes of the era, I think the 350R is the same isnt it?) but I cant quite see enough to fab up a similar set of ends for my existing birdy.  I could probably work this out with trial and error but rather than do that I thought someone here might have the info, or a birdy handy to measure for me? What I'd like to know is the width and length of the mirror mount itself (the flat plate with the collars on it) and also the outside diameter, height (from the face of the plate) and spacing of those collars. |
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Post by JonW on Oct 9, 2020 0:49:52 GMT 1
Can someone also explain to me a bit about how these mirrors bolt on? The reason I ask is that I have the plate they bolt to and it has three holes. I assume that one of the mirror bolts screws to this plate and the other one screws through the plate into one of the collars (the front one as it is longer I guess?). At the rear of the collars it looks to have a bolt that screws from the B side into the plate. Is that right? Have to say that this is pretty complicated for a mirror mount. consisting of a sandwich made of mirror pt25/plate pt29/foam gasket pt27/fairing/foam gasket pt28/collared end of birdy and screws and bolts from both sides. Anyone has any idea why they did it like this?  |
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Post by dusty350 on Oct 9, 2020 7:10:48 GMT 1
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Post by ERic350 on Oct 9, 2020 7:32:16 GMT 1
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Post by JonW on Oct 9, 2020 8:06:51 GMT 1
Thanks guys, I should have said 2MA probably as I think those shown are a different fitment as they are 3XV?
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Post by ERic350 on Oct 10, 2020 12:35:58 GMT 1
TZR 1KT / 2MA, FZR 400, all should do the trick if the distance is 46mm.
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Post by JonW on Oct 10, 2020 12:53:30 GMT 1
Thanks Eric.
I probably wasnt really clear tho... I already have the mirrors (I have nos ones). What I was looking for was info about how they mount so that i can replicate those fixings onto my birdcage.
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Post by ERic350 on Oct 10, 2020 13:56:03 GMT 1
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Post by midlifecrisisrd on Oct 10, 2020 14:42:43 GMT 1
Is there not a fairing fixing under the mirror hence 3 holes in the bracket but only 2 in the mirror
Steve
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Post by JonW on Oct 10, 2020 23:09:42 GMT 1
Thanks Eric those photos really help. Just what i needed. Ik spreek en beetje Nederlands... Maar... your English is far far better than my Dutch.
Steve, Ive no idea. its the long n short bolt thing that is weird. I think it means one screw goes thru to the birdcage and the other goes only to the plate I think, then there is another bolt that comes in from behind to hold the plate. I do wonder if the mirrors and bracket were originally from different bikes and the plate was a way to make them work together. hmm...
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Post by JonW on Oct 11, 2020 2:27:49 GMT 1
I was thinking more about this complex sandwich of parts... I wondered if the later TZRs had a simpler system with just the mirrors bolting through the fairing stay's raised bushes that poke though the cowl using just 2 screws/bolts. A design that ignored the plate and 3 screw setup. And perhaps that new design was taken over to the RD350R.... and then i looked at the 350R parts fiche and if they did do that on the TZRs, then they didnt bother to advise the Brazilians who were building the R... Hmm... www.fowlersparts.co.uk/parts/4099821/rd350-4ce6-1992-999-b/cowling-1In fact if the fiche is to be believed then with the 350R they put a foam damper between the plate and the mirror ( as well as the one expexted between the fairing and the plate for protection), but nothing inside to protect the plastic fairing from the bracket. I wonder if the fiche is wrong as surely that doesnt make sense? but... it would account for why my brand-new-in-95 350R had totally useless mirrors that vibrated like they were having a serious fit once the engine was running. Foam mounting each part would allow a hell of a lot of movement. hmm... Back to the plate... I can only deduce that the plate is in this sandwich for one of two reasons: 1 - The bracket and the mirror have different hole spacing. or 2 - The mirror's mount is made of alloy and needs to be backed by the thick (6mm!) steel plate to stop it snapping off if knocked. Interested to hear more from TZR and 350R owners... |
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Post by JonW on Oct 16, 2020 0:32:04 GMT 1
Ok, Thanks for all your help guys! Ive sorted it out in my head and Ive built it. I now think the 350R, TZR, FZR etc mirrors wobble like mad as they hang off an arm on the birdcage. I hope that as what Ive built has the shorter and less horizontal arms that it may buzz a bit less. We'll see in use I guess. I started with this cut birdcage sourced from my mate Howard (the top fairing also came from him). A racer cut the mirror mounts off it seems. A bummer but perfect for this job, tho now Ive done it it has to be said I could have recreated the OEM mounts much quicker lol.  (what that pic doesnt show is that while the birdy looks blasted, its actually a textured dark grey powdercoat. It fooled me! Ive since spent ages getting it off, Ive one more blast left to go on these pics before its back to bare metal enough that Im happy to powder it again, satin black as OEM of course!) From what we chatted about here and pics on the net I designed and fabbed up the new parts I needed to make it look close to OEM. I didnt use the 3 bolt OEM mounting though I moved to a 2 bolt design as with my RD/RZ birdcage I needed the mount to be held in the center and my new design was simpler. So, once I got the mirror mounts made up and where i wanted them on the fairing I then made up sections of the same size tube (from a bit of old RG250 rear subframe i think lol!) to join the parts together and tried to make the welds/pipe/brackets look as OEM as possible.   I then filled the old mirror holes by plastic welding in a piece. I plastic welded these CAD (cardboard aided design, just like making car panels lol) in rather than glueing as I wanted this to be very strong as both the top fairing's arms had previously been broken through and this area needed the strength. These top fairings often split around the original mirror holes so... You can also see in these pics that I'd already plastic welded the arm back on as it was broken right off on this side. I did pics of that work in the 'what have you done today' thread so youve probably seen it.   Then redrilled the now missing hole for my new bracket and used some of Wurth's superb plastic filler (great stuff, wouldnt be without that at all now) to tidy it all up. This is what I have now:   Well worth the effort as I already have NOS TZR mirrors here. I know not everyone would do this, or even want to. But I do like to be a bit different. Ive never seen anyone else do this, so we can tick this off a mental list now if anyone has one, it can be done and it has been. Next! haha |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 21, 2020 13:05:02 GMT 1
Hi Jon
I’m just going to hijack your thread temporarily to give the back story of the birdcage and fairing
To fill in the story of how I got that birdcage, I needed a set of F1 instruments, one came up for sale fairly local to me
The guy who had it was a small engine mechanic who lectured at the areas technical college, and initially was building a street fighter RZ350 with his son, the son got bored and the project was stopped
The only way I could get the instruments was to take the birdcage and headlight
The birdcage hung in my shed for about 3 years, until one day Jon came asking for one for garage art, so it was dutifully sent to him, and it’s now going on a bike, then he enquired about a headlight and that made its way to him too
As for the headlight fairing came from Adelaide, I saw it for sale at a fairly good price,, a mate of mine was visiting his sister there and volunteered to look at it, it seemed sound, so it was brought back by him on the plane
When I mated it up to a screen, one leg was too short and the last mounting hole was non existent, the last 5 or so inches of the leg had been replaced with resin, and I’ve got to admit it was a really good job, except it was not long enough
Another headlight fairing I’d bought from Canada unfortunately was broken severely in transit, so it became the donor for the short leg and a couple of the mounting tabs, which I cut out of it and glued into the better fairing
I’d managed to glue the leg in place but not successfully enough, so I replaced it with an NOS one again from Canada
Again Jon came calling and I sent the still incomplete fairing to him and he has successfully repaired the fairing ready for fitting to his bike, as well as getting a belly pan to repair too
That’s ingenious, I’d thought you were going to use that cut down bird cage for garage art, similarly the head light fairing
I take it I’d glued the bottom mounting points in the correct place for you
I’m really glad that you’ve been able to use the parts on an actual bike, that’s just awesome
And yes that cut down birdcage did have a textured finish, silver and black if I remember
That’s what I love about this place, people come up with parts for those in need, and I’m glad to say Jon has done the same for me as I have for him
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Post by JonW on Oct 21, 2020 13:15:28 GMT 1
Good background Howard, these parts sure have had a life or two already and now theyre ready to go again  I was originally going to use the birdcage for garage art, but when i looked at it I wondered if i was missing a trick by doing that. I also realised that if i was ever going to do something with the TZR mirrors Id bought then this was probably the right birdcage to do it with. The birdcage was bent of course, they all are Ive found. So I massaged it to fit the top fairing mounts which were within a few mm so pretty close, you did great work there. I didnt see any black powder, it was all dark grey and looked just like blasted steel... maybe its my old man eyes :/ Thanks again for the parts, They will defo get used and I may modify the top fairing some more before Im finished. I do love working with plastic! |
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