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Post by mangocrazy on Aug 2, 2020 18:50:00 GMT 1
With any luck, my 350LC motor will sing again in the next week or so. I'm planning on running in with a mineral oil, pre-mixed with petrol, prior to switching to Arrow's beautifully refurbished oil pump and fully synthetic oil thereafter.
What premix ratio should I be using for running in with Comma mineral oil? Comma says 'refer to manufacturer's instructions'...
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Post by Tobyjugs on Aug 2, 2020 19:15:24 GMT 1
Personally I'd run it in using the oil pump with the oil you intend to use daily.
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Post by arrow on Aug 2, 2020 19:19:18 GMT 1
Personally I'd run it in using the oil pump with the oil you intend to use daily. Me too. They were run in from the factory back in the day using the pump. |
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Post by Tobyjugs on Aug 2, 2020 19:22:58 GMT 1
Personally I'd run it in using the oil pump with the oil you intend to use daily. ? Me too. They were run in from the factory back in the day using the pump. Sorry if this sounds rough but why make it rocket science? |
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Post by arrow on Aug 2, 2020 19:25:05 GMT 1
Doesn't sound rough to me.
I was questioning the use of the pre-mix, but edited the post as it looked like I was questioning your reply, which I wasn't.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 2, 2020 19:39:56 GMT 1
Personally I'd run it in using the oil pump with the oil you intend to use daily. +1 |
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Post by Tobyjugs on Aug 2, 2020 19:55:27 GMT 1
Doesn't sound rough to me. I was questioning the use of the pre-mix, but edited the post as it looked like I was questioning your reply, which I wasn't. Oops sorry Arrow that comment was meant for the original poster. |
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Post by mangocrazy on Aug 3, 2020 9:24:59 GMT 1
The only reason I was thinking about using premix for running in was to avoid mixing mineral oil and fully synth in the oil tank. I wasn't sure how well the two oil types would play together, so figured that premix for initial running in and pumped oil after run-in was the easiest way to keep the two oil types separate.
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Post by arrow on Aug 3, 2020 9:27:37 GMT 1
No problem mixing these two oils.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 3, 2020 9:49:54 GMT 1
Why are you even using 2 different types of 2T oil. Just use 1 or the other and thrash it. All you are doing is over complicating a very simple process. Stick fully synthetic in the oil tank and be done with it. Let the new oil pump do it's job.
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Post by arrow on Aug 3, 2020 9:54:40 GMT 1
I've read all the posts on using a mineral to run in. I used a fully synthetic to run in my 350lc, no problems at all. Nor did I expect any in this respect.
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Post by Norbo on Aug 3, 2020 10:06:26 GMT 1
200ml to 4.5 l fuel;
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Post by mangocrazy on Aug 3, 2020 12:12:31 GMT 1
Cheers Norbo - a simple answer to a simple question...  The theory behind using a mineral oil for running in and then switching to fully synth after is well known in four-stroke circles, both for cars and bikes. Less so in two-stroke circles it seems... The mineral oil permits faster bedding in of components due to not having the same protective qualities as fully synth. The best fully synth oils can delay the running in process for thousands of miles, due to their superior protective qualities not allowing bedding in of vital components to take place. Google 'running in oil' if you don't believe that it is actually a Thing. I accept that it's very difficult to prove that such a regime is better than using fully synth from the word go; you'd need a carefully controlled experiment with two factory fresh motors, one with mineral oil and the other with fully synth, and the exact same running in cycles observed and then a trip to the dyno and a subsequent strip down and measure. In the absence of that all you can do is what you think is best for your motor. I ran my KTM Duke 690 R in on mineral oil for the first 800 miles (with multiple oil changes in that time) and then switched to fully synth. At 1000 miles it was put on BSD performance's dyno and registered 71 bhp - the highest they had seen from one of these motors. It doesn't use oil, whereas most Duke 690s do - some for the first few thousand miles, some for the rest of their lives.I'm happy with my choice. |
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Post by beardy on Aug 3, 2020 12:58:02 GMT 1
I’d imagine seeing as two strokes burn oil anyway it’s difficult to notice the difference.
Unlike four strokes as you say.
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Post by rich on Aug 3, 2020 13:15:59 GMT 1
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Post by shaunthe2nd on Aug 3, 2020 14:02:37 GMT 1
My maths suggest that is 22.5 to 1.
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Post by steven on Aug 3, 2020 17:28:44 GMT 1
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Post by headcoats on Aug 3, 2020 17:33:09 GMT 1
150ml two stroke to 5 litres fuel 33-1
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Post by jackjabba on Aug 3, 2020 18:14:05 GMT 1
You wont get a simple answer because everyone has different ideas, just like the great running in debate.
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Post by jon on Aug 3, 2020 18:35:45 GMT 1
You wont get a simple answer because everyone has different ideas, just like the great running in debate. Don’t forget the which oil is best for 2T, forks or transmission, which way the flywheel side oil seal goes, whether to use the clutch damper rings or not, YPVS piston tangs, clutch basket play, tyre sizes, progressive springs etc; and that’s before you get into cosmetics such as a Guiliari seat. Fact is some things matter and some things don’t. Yambits oil seals and throttle cables are a known no no (from personal experience as well as that of others). Purely in the spirit of the post I used to use 33:1 in my lambrettas (no pump) but have always used the pump on LC’s, even to run them in. I’ve only ever used semi synthetic, and until been learned otherwise will continue to do so. One thing of note is oil is better quality these days than back in the day, and we probably ride them far less to put any wear on them. A case of mollycoddling I think? Jon |
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Post by flames on Aug 3, 2020 18:46:31 GMT 1
Cheers Norbo - a simple answer to a simple question... The theory behind using a mineral oil for running in and then switching to fully synth after is well known in four-stroke circles, both for cars and bikes. Less so in two-stroke circles it seems... The mineral oil permits faster bedding in of components due to not having the same protective qualities as fully synth. The best fully synth oils can delay the running in process for thousands of miles, due to their superior protective qualities not allowing bedding in of vital components to take place. Google 'running in oil' if you don't believe that it is actually a Thing. I accept that it's very difficult to prove that such a regime is better than using fully synth from the word go; you'd need a carefully controlled experiment with two factory fresh motors, one with mineral oil and the other with fully synth, and the exact same running in cycles observed and then a trip to the dyno and a subsequent strip down and measure. In the absence of that all you can do is what you think is best for your motor. I ran my KTM Duke 690 R in on mineral oil for the first 800 miles (with multiple oil changes in that time) and then switched to fully synth. At 1000 miles it was put on BSD performance's dyno and registered 71 bhp - the highest they had seen from one of these motors. It doesn't use oil, whereas most Duke 690s do - some for the first few thousand miles, some for the rest of their lives.I'm happy with my choice. I have heard of this before. Heard yamaha neglected to do this on their bikes and was why exups had a habit of burning oil. Have no idea how true this is tho. And dont know if it was ever done on strokers either. |
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Post by mangocrazy on Aug 3, 2020 19:50:49 GMT 1
Fact is some things matter and some things don’t. Yambits oil seals and throttle cables are a known no no (from personal experience as well as that of others). Jon Hmmm - OK, I'll bite. What's the matter with Yambits throttle cables, and what one should I go for? Gen Yam is just too rich for my blood, I hasten to add. |
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Post by seang14 on Aug 4, 2020 22:09:44 GMT 1
Buy a Throttle Cable from Norbo he has good Pattern ones!!!! Just don't do Yambits for really important bits!!!!!!
Sean G
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Post by 4l04ever on Aug 5, 2020 0:11:46 GMT 1
I would run in with premix in the tank if you want to use mineral oil and not mix it up.
You could blank the carb inlets while doing this and put long oil feed pipes running from the pump outlets back into the oil tank. That way, you can keep the oil pump fully lubed and check to make sure the pump is all working well. Once ready to change over, just change to fuel only in fuel tank and connect up the oil pipes to the carbs.
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Post by JonW on Aug 5, 2020 1:10:31 GMT 1
Gen Yam throttle cables are not cheap, but they fit. Norbo I thought couldnt get a reup of some of the pattern ones he had so youre left with little choice.
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Post by mangocrazy on Aug 5, 2020 12:48:16 GMT 1
Gen Yam throttle cables are not cheap, but they fit. Norbo I thought couldnt get a reup of some of the pattern ones he had so youre left with little choice. Yeah, on thinking about it, it has to be Gen Yam and ignore the howls of pain from my wallet... |
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Post by mangocrazy on Aug 5, 2020 12:52:20 GMT 1
I would run in with premix in the tank if you want to use mineral oil and not mix it up. You could blank the carb inlets while doing this and put long oil feed pipes running from the pump outlets back into the oil tank. That way, you can keep the oil pump fully lubed and check to make sure the pump is all working well. Once ready to change over, just change to fuel only in fuel tank and connect up the oil pipes to the carbs. Or I could just rig up a small catch tank and route the oil pump outlet pipes into there. I've already cut the small pipes to size. Nice idea, thanks.
I have no doubt the pump is working well. It's just come back from Gary/Arrow. |
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Post by arrow on Aug 5, 2020 13:05:19 GMT 1
Twenty year guarantee Mango. 👌
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