Heath Robinson mock up.

[flames]

Afternoon All

Haven't been on in ages, work / life / money got in the way.I cant believe how long it has been since i was on.
Not a lot has happened with my lc in the time i have been away.After the seizure going to mates funeral I rebuilt the motor with spare parts i had and a 'built by Arrow' oil pump and she survived what little mileage i managed to muster before she got stood up for winter and basically worked her way further and further towards the back of the garage. I recently dragged her back in to the daylight and fired her up again. She runs ok but not sweet as i remember from many moons ago....tho i probably have my rose tinted glasses on when i'm looking back. I had fitted a modded lc swing arm ( added around an inch to the bottom shock mount ).
Don't ask me why, from what i remember it was mostly down to the fact i had been practicing welding and wanted to have a go.
I think it raised the back end too much because my header tank always sat at minimum. This coupled with clip-ons which were lowered a little to make room for the standard indicators gave very much a head down bum up stance which was a real wrist killer and as most of my commute was down back lanes, didn't make for a very enjoyable ride. Anyhoo, not the sweetest running, and not the most comfortable and certainly not the best looking but she did handle well ,like this.

Fast forward more years than i care to admit. The bug has bitten again and i am determined at some point in my life that i will finish her in one form or another and hopefully in the process make her in to something i can be proud of.

I have been toying with the idea of fitting FZ600 forks and yokes ( i have these in the garage ) as these are a straight fit in the frame and only mod i need to make is for the larger spindle and spacers. Caliper mounts would need changing as i was also thinking of fitting FZR600 discs and calipers (also available in my garage ). I was planning to keep standard LC wheels as i like the look of them and although i want to modify her i want to keep some of the 'lc' look.

I also happen to have some KR1 wheels in the garage that i bought around.......Blimey!!!! 20 years ago!!! with the intention of fitting them in lc all that time ago.One of many idea's and projects that entered my head in my 20's that ultimately never materialised or got bodged due to , as 'Casey Stoner' would put it " my ambition far out ways my talent" or words to that effect. A while go i had been thinking of fitting the front in the FZ forks and broke out the grinder until i shaved enough material from the inside of the R/H leg to allow fitting and alignment. I couldn't decide if i was going to go in this direction as i didn't want to extend the wheelbase as much as i would need with the KR swinger.

So today i decided to go for a 'Heath Robinson' style mock up to try and make up my mind whether to stay stock wheels or go with KR1.
Here are a couple of pics....

IMG-20200616-WA0002 by Neil Cleland, on Flickr


The Hyundai lawn mower has done more miles than elsie in last 6 or 7 years!!!



DSC_0097 by Neil Cleland, on Flickr


and finally


DSC_0100 by Neil Cleland, on Flickr

I quite like the look up front but am still uncertain about the rear. Wheel is basically just st in there with lc spindle at moment and have not attempted to align anything up at the rear. The wonky seat unit will not be used .it is just sat on there as i will probably fit a single seat of some kind whichever running gear i fit. I will have to now because in my excitement i got carried away with the grinder again to see how the tz unit would look.......hindsight is a wonderful thing........if only there was some form of' dontdoit sight'....

I know the rear will look different again with a disc fitted but i think the profile of the tyre does't lend itself well to the rest of the bike. I am thinking of fitting a 120/80 on the back but don't know if a) this is a good idea , or b) if 80 profile will give the look/ stance i am after.
The swingarm fitted BTW is the modded jacked up version , which makes up a bit for the reduced rolling ratio of the tyre.
I think i like the stance how it is. and will look better with the belly pan and front muddy fitted.....or at least i hope it will.

Not really sure on a seat unit / tailpiece as yet, but as i have already massacred the rear of the frame, once i have something i like fitting shouldn't be a major issue as i wont be trying not to butcher the frame. Obviously if this gets as far as looking like it is going to become a build i will post updates, but be warned.....i have absolutely nowhere near the knowledge,skill set,ability,brains or anything else that other builders have on here. I don't even have the sense to admit when something is way beyond my capability. But i am keen and willing to give just about anything a go, so we will see where a few spanners, a garage full of junk and an angle grinder will take me.

Wish me luck.

[dusty350]

Well, you mastered Flikr which is good Any rebuild thread needs lots of pics
I've always found the hardest part of any special build is finding the right seat, if you are straying from standard. It's a massive part of the "look" which is all important, and it's harder to get a different seat "right" than it is running gear in my opinion. You could ask if someone is cutting an old frame, and try and gain the part to reinstate your frame for a standard seat if that's an option. I only say this as I did the same to my 430e years ago - chopped the frame and fitted a nice Tz race seat which looks awesome, and was actually ok when I was in my 20's, but is purgatory nowadays, and stops me riding it
I like the 3 spoke Kr running gear. If you are flush, Metmachex could make you a nice alloy box section arm to take that wheel You are gonna struggle with the Lc arm/Kr1 combo otherwise.
Good luck though, and the forum is a mine of help and advice for when you get stuck - coz we all do at some point !

Dusty

[flames]

Jun 16, 2020 20:15:54 GMT 1 dusty350 said:

Well, you mastered Flikr which is good Any rebuild thread needs lots of pics
I've always found the hardest part of any special build is finding the right seat, if you are straying from standard. It's a massive part of the "look" which is all important, and it's harder to get a different seat "right" than it is running gear in my opinion. You could ask if someone is cutting an old frame, and try and gain the part to reinstate your frame for a standard seat if that's an option. I only say this as I did the same to my 430e years ago - chopped the frame and fitted a nice Tz race seat which looks awesome, and was actually ok when I was in my 20's, but is purgatory nowadays, and stops me riding it
I like the 3 spoke Kr running gear. If you are flush, Metmachex could make you a nice alloy box section arm to take that wheel You are gonna struggle with the Lc arm/Kr1 combo otherwise.
Good luck though, and the forum is a mine of help and advice for when you get stuck - coz we all do at some point !

Dusty

Thanks Dusty, luckily I have kept everything I have ever cut off frame, in case I wanted to revert.so am still in a position to re fit. Funny you should mention your 430e .....it was one of the bikes that got me wanting a single seat look. Unfortunately metmachex is a bit out of my price range at the moment, but you never know what the future holds. LC swinger is only there to hold the wheel in 'lc' position. Was going to size up PV swinger just to see how it will look with a longer one but it started to thunder so I had to pack up and find a bed to hide under. Tho i really want to keep it short.
I think metmachex is the way to go tho.

[donkeychomp]

I like the wheels. Hell it's an LC...I like it full stop! Good luck with your build.

Alex

[arrow]

Good luck with your build flames.

[JonW]

Looks like a great start, and superb youve owned it do long.

[flames]

Thanks guys.

Determined to get her sorted properly this time, one way or another. Have decided this year is going to be a write off with all that's been going on so hopefully be getting somewhere near for next year.

Jun 17, 2020 1:28:32 GMT 1 JonW said:

Looks like a great start, and superb youve owned it do long.

Its embarrassing jon to b honest. I have owned her for 30 years and I bet she hasn't been on the road for more than a total of 3 of them. Yet I have always been hooked. Every time ( about a total of 3 times) that I have thought to myself ' I'm never going to get her sorted, sell' , I can't bring myself to do it.
At the same time, I've always enjoyed tinkering with her.

[veg]

That has got so much potential, 10-15 yrs ago the Kr1 running gear was far more sought after than now and it was always my preference even though i built an rgv/pv/lc hybrid. I think the biggest problem with the kr1 is the rear tyre availability. Im with you on clip ons i finished(Lovely use the word as they are never really finished) my lc and fitted micron ace bars i rode the bike for 15 minutes and realised how bloody uncomfortable they are with rear sets and that i am no longer 20 years old. I am far from being the most adept builder and i don't have lathes or milling machines but still built something im proud of, yes NK did some of the work but other bits is all me, if you have the inclination and the time go for it. I look forward to seeing how this goes.

[flames]

Well, i started the day full of good intentions. The mrs was at work this morning so i was up at 07.30, plan was to take some pics of bike as above but with standard tailpiece on, then swap the swingarm with a ypvs arm that i have and see how it looks and maybe size up tzr250 rear shock with rising rate linkage.

Went o.k to begin with , took photo's with tailpiece. Then things went pear shaped. I dug out the pv swinger......but the sleeve was missing, as was all the suspension linkages and rear spindle. The more i searched, the hotter and more agitated i became. In the end i threw a Basil Fawlty and started emptying the garage in a fit of rage. Swearing to myself how 'aint no stupid effing swingarm getting the better of me'. My garage is 18ft by 24ft and apart from housing a car, is pretty much rammed with just about every piece of junk or scrap metal i have ever bought. And i just about emptied the lot.I also rummaged and peared / searched through just about every plastic tub, cardboard box, bag and cupboard there was and STILL couldn't find any of them. WTF
There is no way they have been chucked away, they have got to be in there somewhere. So i then had to spend the other half of the day slinging everything back in. To say i was pi55ed off would be an understatement. I will be having another look tomorrow and if i have got any sense, which i already know i haven't i will be sorting thro the boxes etc as i go and labelling things up to give me a better chance of finding what i still have.

Anyhow, here are the pics with the seat unit vs taipiece....

1st one, seat unit slid forward and raised a bit

DSC_0109 by Neil Cleland, on Flickr

next one slid forward and against the frame

DSC_0110 by Neil Cleland, on Flickr

Now the ones with tailpiece. one in usual position and one slid forward a bit, this would involve making my own seat unit up or modifying the standard seat. I am thinking if i do go with these wheels, i will probably go for pv or similar swingarm which will be a bit longer than an lc one so wont want the bodywork slid forward.

DSC_0107 by Neil Cleland, on Flickr


DSC_0108 by Neil Cleland, on Flickr

I might yet go with one of Dusty's idea's and go for a metmachex swingarm but made to work with rising rate suspension. Will need to sell some stuff to raise funds for that kind of expense tho.......but if the garage keeps eating stuff, i might not have much to get rid of.

[veg]

Try to keep the std wheelbase if you can, they aren’t a bad old handling thing really, but as soon as you increase the wheelbase it turns them into a boat. Having had an rgv hybrid they don’t handle properly and the wheelbase increase ruins the looks for me.
I’d also question the non std seat if you’re serious about using the bike I’m assuming you’re a similar age to most of us (forever 18) I know you are looking at changing the bars because of comfort, solo seats with little padding are bloody uncomfortable after a few miles, I had a gsxr Yoshimura rep with one after 30 minutes you knew it. 👍

[dusty350]

+1 on what Veg has said
First, and MOST important is - it's your bike, build it how YOU want ! If you ask for opinions, you will get useful input here - it's a great forum in that respect
Compromise - that is something that any specials builder will understand, and every special ever built has had one or two compromise moments !
For me, standard seat, all day long. The Lc is a beautiful bike, and the seat looks and works great with the tank/side panels and tail unit. Comfortable, not too bulky and can be bling'd with a different cover, coloured piping etc. Saves a lot of work if you go standard seat. Race seats "can" look ok, but the inevitable gaps between seat and tank can look ugly unless you are a whizz with fibreglass ! Race seats are lightweight, so crack and craze easily, and are very uncomfortable ! You are never sat in the same position on a race seat for more than a few seconds, so they are not meant for comfort. As Veg said, if you want to enjoy some road miles, it's not the seat you want !
Some of the nicest hybrids, imo, are standard shaped bikes with hybrid front and rears, different paint maybe, and other subtle mods that add up to something really nice. The resto section is full of stunning builds, many keeping the side profile of a standardish Lc.
18" rear tyres are getting hard to find, especially if trying to match to a 17" front. I struggled on my Café racer for the Vj21 rear tyre - only had 1 real option in the end, so that's another thing to consider.
The most important thing is to know what you want to builds from the start, imo. It's quicker and easier as you will have a shopping list of what you need, and there is probably info on here that covers what you want to do - most combinations have been tried over the years If you bounce ideas around with no idea of what you are trying to achieve, you will get frustrated and peed off with it very quickly !
As for the garage - make 2 piles - stuff you may/could use, and stuff you definitely wont ! That pile goes to the back !!

Good luck, and above all, enjoy

Dusty

[JonW]

Std is better to my eyes... sorry to all those who like 'funny race tails' lol

Sounds advice from the posters above imho... tho i like my RGV'd hybrid and it looks right to me, the std LC is a bit 'short' in the wheelbase... each to their own

[tony2stroke]

Personally I would say read up about motorcycle geometry before you go changing too much, everything you change has an effect, ie higher or lower seat will alter centre of gravity, longer or shorter swing arm will alter stability, front fork rake. trail, offset, or jacking up or lowering the rear suspension will alter cornering, fatter wheels and or tyres too there is a lot to think about, or you could end up with an unrideable bike that just sits in the garage looking pretty.

[flames]

Thanks for the replies and advice guys. The intention all along was to keep wheelbase as close to standard as possible which is why i haven't opted to go for the KR1 swingarm as this is too long for what i want. I do love the look of the lc wheels and i think they keep the bike 'lc' looking. The main reason for trying out the KR wheels was for the unsprung weight saving which should improve handling without going overly wide.( i was thinking of going 120 on the rear).

However, after seeing this post by Badger on the 'what did you do' thread, i am thinking of sticking with standard wheels ( but keeping the beefier FZ600 forks ) and when i have finished the build, i can try getting the KR wheel to fit and work in a suitable swingarm. At least then it will just be a bolt out / in job and if i dont like it can still revert to standard. Dont i feel like a complete pleb for cutting the back of the frame off for a 2nd time. O well , anyway here is the pic of inspiration that Badger posted....

flic.kr/p/2jdPxdW


I really like how he has put his own stamp on it with a few subtle touches. I think that should be my plan. Just a few subtle touches and make good all the bodges on there at the moment. I think the funniest one i found was the woodscrew holding the right hand switch gear together!!!

Thanks again for your opinions and advice, i will deffo use the 'parts that i wont use go to the back' one for sure Dusty. It should be an obvious one really but sometimes i just cant see the wood for the tree's.

So plan is to sort frame and make a list as i go of the numerous bolts and parts that i need to find or replace during the strip down.

Cheers

[veg]

Just remember the weight of them 😁.

[dusty350]

The best "alternative" front end , keeping the Lc wheels I had was Fzr600 Foxeye forks;

20190302_113040 by dusty miller, on Flickr

I didn't add the forks, they were with the project when I bought it. Hell of a lot of work to get it looking and working good, but I think they look awesome on an Lc. That had a 120 rear tyre too;

20190320_150941 by dusty miller, on Flickr

Food for thought

Dusty

[veg]

Flames he is renowned for doing this just as you think you're going in the right direction up pops miller and throws a curve ball at you
They do look bloody good mind

[dusty350]

Well, I like to get you all talking !!
That front end is a huge amount of work though. Whoever did it, did it right. Lots of little bits to make it work with the Lc wheel. More pics and info in the build thread;

rdlccrazy.proboards.com/thread/44266/375cc-semi-hybrid

[flames]

That looks awesome. I have an FZR600 front end, but it is the 3HE version. The forks are a lot longer than lc and quite a bit wider. I think the l cwheel will look lost in them.......reminiscent of a Harley with wide forks skinny wheel. If i won the lottery i could have some yokes made up to bring them closer together then i wouldn't need adaptors making for the calipers, just spacers to line them up and spacers / sleeve for the spindle.

I am certainly thinking Metmachex one day tho. They are something else.