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Post by rattler on Jun 15, 2020 20:09:11 GMT 1
As above - what's the widest and how much clearance is sensible for a rear tyre in a stock 4L0 swinger?
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Post by donkeychomp on Jun 15, 2020 21:58:08 GMT 1
Not that I've done it myself but I'm informed that fatter rubber on a stock LC ruins the handling. Maybe go with standard?
Alex
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Post by 4l04ever on Jun 16, 2020 11:21:05 GMT 1
I fitted a TZR125 4FL rear wheel in standard swingarm. Fitted a 130/70/17. You maybe able to get a 140 but chain run might get tight.
If using standard wheels, stick with 110/80/18 rear tyre.
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Post by midlifecrisisrd on Jun 16, 2020 12:27:50 GMT 1
I've seen an fzr 18 inch wheel with a 140 tyre shoehorned in
You will need an offset front sprocket to clear the chain
If a standard rim then as said 110 is the best
The rim is skinny so bigger rubber won't sit right
Shove a 140 on a skinny rim and it won't measure 140
Back in the day folk used to go 1 size over standard
Steve
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Post by earthman on Jun 17, 2020 8:55:37 GMT 1
Not that I've done it myself but I'm informed that fatter rubber on a stock LC ruins the handling. Maybe go with standard? Alex If that does indeed happen I wonder why exactly, anyone know? I guess that Yamaha really knew what they were doing from the start. |
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Post by tony2stroke on Jun 17, 2020 9:31:29 GMT 1
Not that I've done it myself but I'm informed that fatter rubber on a stock LC ruins the handling. Maybe go with standard? Alex If that does indeed happen I wonder why exactly, anyone know? I guess that Yamaha really knew what they were doing from the start. Same reason you put low profile tyres on your car for better handling, the vehicle will be wallowing around on the tyre carcass with fatter tyre without a fatter wheel. And hybrid's can't handle like a standard LC either, as you have messed with the hole geometry of the bike, it won't turn in as fast, and if you have longer swing arm again won't turn in so quickly, be better for stability at speed though, in theory. |
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Post by rattler on Jun 17, 2020 9:53:59 GMT 1
Thanks for the replies - regarding the tyre width affecting handling, I think it's more about tyre profile that can affect the turn in when cornering. Width can affect this - but its impact is less than profile.
You can have a wider tyre with a more rounded profile that offers consistent / linear turn in or a narrow tyre with a fairly flat profile that won't turn in evenly but then turns quickly once the edge is reached.
Also, a race tyre will have a more rounded profile as longevity and spreading load when riding upright is not a main concern - whereas a standard road tye is likley to have a flatter profile - and spend longer upright, so a wider / flatter profile offers better traction and longevity.
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Post by rattler on Jun 17, 2020 9:56:19 GMT 1
I fitted a TZR125 4FL rear wheel in standard swingarm. Fitted a 130/70/17. You maybe able to get a 140 but chain run might get tight. If using standard wheels, stick with 110/80/18 rear tyre. I've got a 130 profile on the R1-Z wheels I'm looking to fit so should be fine. I'd like to match this to the front too, so perhaps a 110 front? Tim |
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Post by 4l04ever on Jun 17, 2020 11:04:16 GMT 1
I have a TZR125 3PC front front wheel with a 100/80/17 tyre fitted. All BT45 tyres.
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Post by earthman on Jun 17, 2020 11:23:25 GMT 1
Thanks for the replies - regarding the tyre width affecting handling, I think it's more about tyre profile that can affect the turn in when cornering. Width can affect this - but its impact is less than profile. You can have a wider tyre with a more rounded profile that offers consistent / linear turn in or a narrow tyre with a fairly flat profile that won't turn in evenly but then turns quickly once the edge is reached. Also, a race tyre will have a more rounded profile as longevity and spreading load when riding upright is not a main concern - whereas a standard road tye is likley to have a flatter profile - and spend longer upright, so a wider / flatter profile offers better traction and longevity. That's what I were thinking, assuming that the profile of the tyre were the same as the original, surely an extra 10mm or so on the width wouldn't affect the handling badly?? |
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Post by veg on Jun 17, 2020 12:58:07 GMT 1
The problem with chassis changes are they can effect some much else. The standard hybrid solution of rgv forks and rear end i found adversely effected the handling of mine it just felt too long, Dustys solution of using a metmachex with rgv wheel is a good one, the profile changes eg using a 90 profile rather than an 80 rear does effect the handling. As can squeezing in too large a rear tyre on too small a rim it can alter the profile of the tyre this is without issues of clearance, then you get into rake, trail changes on the front as well as flex in the chassis is you over brake or over tyre a chassis. Tony Foales book on chassis design is a rather good read if you can a' find a copy and b, be bothered to read it. I spent some time chatting via email with tony about my anti dive system on my bike (or as matt describes it Ford model T brake system  . ). As well as some of the changes. I think if you tend to match the wheels and tyres with giving a similar wheelbase and rolling profile you are more likely to improve it than relying on a design from the late 1970's. I just happen to be a sucker for 1970's designs. There are some well established paths to go down be it rgv, or Kr1 or as rob says above. Good luck. |
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Post by dave1w on Jun 17, 2020 13:20:25 GMT 1
There was a 130/650 -18 Avon Race tyre designed to fit in the narrow rim, which Inthink worked better than the 130/70 none race Avon. Mine seemed Ok, I think it matched with a 110/90 -18 on the front(?)
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Post by midlifecrisisrd on Jun 17, 2020 13:32:51 GMT 1
There was a 130/650 -18 Avon Race tyre designed to fit in the narrow rim, which Inthink worked better than the 130/70 none race Avon. Mine seemed Ok, I think it matched with a 110/90 -18 on the front(?) Think you are correct AM23 cantilever or something comes to mind They are specifically made for thin rims Steve |
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Post by veg on Jun 17, 2020 14:51:39 GMT 1
Again it’s ensuring you match them and I’m a big fan of the Avon tyre 👍
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Post by flames on Jun 17, 2020 23:22:32 GMT 1
I have read recently but can't for the life of me think where, that although a fatter tyre gives a bigger contact patch and therefore in theory more corner speed, a skinnier wheel will use less lean angle at a given speed than a wider one giving the ability for more corner speed.This was given as part of the reason for the LC being able to embarrass a lot of bigger bikes. Not sure how true this is but makes sense why any time I saw a pic of an LC cornering with other bikes ,LC always looked to be more upright. I always thought the rider darent lean any more on the rubber but could be because it didn't need to
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Post by bigdork on Jun 18, 2020 0:25:35 GMT 1
A fatter tire will often weigh more as well, adding to the issue.
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Post by earthman on Jun 18, 2020 9:29:23 GMT 1
A fatter tire will often weigh more as well, adding to the issue. That's nothing compared to the majority of us middle aged riders who weigh a lot more than we did when we first rode these bikes. Lol |
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Post by veg on Jun 18, 2020 10:04:22 GMT 1
The biggest change to the handling you can make is lighter wheels, I’ve managed to change mine from the 20kg std wheels to 2.5 kg. Huge difference.
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Post by flames on Jun 18, 2020 12:15:54 GMT 1
The biggest change to the handling you can make is lighter wheels, I’ve managed to change mine from the 20kg std wheels to 2.5 kg. Huge difference. That's a helluva saving. I got kr1 wheels lined up for mine. They are definitely lighter but don't know how much by. |
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Post by veg on Jun 18, 2020 12:34:59 GMT 1
Weigh them always interesting to see what you save. Yes my wheels are magnesium Honda rs125 race wheels bought them from Nk racing I set out to remove as much weight as possible so bodywork is all carbon I’m running single disc not twin, rear sets not the std footrests and hangers exhausts are ex Yamaha France tz350 but I will change to Dave’s . I will also get it weighed I’m hoping to have saved between 30 to 40 Kg which I think should be straightforward just with wheels and pipes plus where ever possible I’ve used titanium nuts and bolts.
All I need now is to lose the 4 stone between 18 and 51.
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Post by flames on Jun 18, 2020 19:25:05 GMT 1
Weigh them always interesting to see what you save. Yes my wheels are magnesium Honda rs125 race wheels bought them from Nk racing I set out to remove as much weight as possible so bodywork is all carbon I’m running single disc not twin, rear sets not the std footrests and hangers exhausts are ex Yamaha France tz350 but I will change to Dave’s . I will also get it weighed I’m hoping to have saved between 30 to 40 Kg which I think should be straightforward just with wheels and pipes plus where ever possible I’ve used titanium nuts and bolts. All I need now is to lose the 4 stone between 18 and 51. Good luck with that  . I did weigh lc wheels compared with KR1 a few years ago and they were quite a bit lighter, but i cant remember whether i weighed with discs and calipers . ( i intend using fzr 600 calipers if i do go ahead and fit the KR wheels). Any unsprung weight loss has to be a good thing tho. |
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. ). As well as some of the changes.
. I did weigh lc wheels compared with KR1 a few years ago and they were quite a bit lighter, but i cant remember whether i weighed with discs and calipers . ( i intend using fzr 600 calipers if i do go ahead and fit the KR wheels). Any unsprung weight loss has to be a good thing tho.