tooch
Weekend rider
Posts: 70
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Post by tooch on Mar 21, 2020 7:13:25 GMT 1
dont put anything inside the frame until youve welded and PC'd it. any juice can play havoc with TIG and anything that leaks out during the cooking of PC will ruin the finish. hair is made for colour... women do it all the time Thanks Jon, that's what I thought What would you spray inside the frame? Fish oil?
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Post by JonW on Mar 21, 2020 9:06:32 GMT 1
Fish oil would work if you do it at the end. be aware tho... I fish oiled the bottom of my evo at my mates workshop and for weeks they would ring me in the morning and tell me I was an arse cos the area round the lift stank of fish oil lol
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Post by midlifecrisisrd on Mar 21, 2020 11:38:48 GMT 1
My neighbours have about 8 cats that hang around my property, the fish oil might attract them even more! That will be a positive if the supermarket locusts keep going Wonder what cat tastes like? Oh hang on I've eaten Chinese food 😆 Steve
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2020 17:34:40 GMT 1
I don't think he's doing a purple rinse just yet Jon
As Jon says, don't coat the inside of the frame until you have it welded and coated, the welding process won't like it, also the heat of the powder process will melt any wax coating you put in there
If you use a rust converter, use one that you don't wash off with water, all you are going to do is create flash rust again on areas that may be clean steel
I'll declare an interest here, Wurth do one, funnily enough it's called Rust Converter, I work for Wurth, you paint it on wait until the rusty areas turn blue/black and away you go, we have a spray can version too, haven't tried it yet, the other one I know works
You could galv it, that would cure a lot of issues, however again you need a good "cosmetic" galv company to do it or you'll have zinc dags everywhere
When you strip the frame bare I reckon you'll find more of these issues, so it's probably a good idea to get it media blasted
Welcome to the wonderful world of restoring 37 year old bikes
At least if you had grey hair, it's black now, saves you a trip to the barbers !
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tooch
Weekend rider
Posts: 70
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Post by tooch on Mar 22, 2020 3:32:32 GMT 1
I don't think he's doing a purple rinse just yet Jon As Jon says, don't coat the inside of the frame until you have it welded and coated, the welding process won't like it, also the heat of the powder process will melt any wax coating you put in there If you use a rust converter, use one that you don't wash off with water, all you are going to do is create flash rust again on areas that may be clean steel I'll declare an interest here, Wurth do one, funnily enough it's called Rust Converter, I work for Wurth, you paint it on wait until the rusty areas turn blue/black and away you go, we have a spray can version too, haven't tried it yet, the other one I know works You could galv it, that would cure a lot of issues, however again you need a good "cosmetic" galv company to do it or you'll have zinc dags everywhere When you strip the frame bare I reckon you'll find more of these issues, so it's probably a good idea to get it media blasted Welcome to the wonderful world of restoring 37 year old bikes At least if you had grey hair, it's black now, saves you a trip to the barbers ! Thanks, yeah plan now is to get it sandblasted, give it to a long time family friend who is a welder by trade, he said he'll fix it up for me and do a dye test to check for further cracks etc. I hit a few dodgy looking bits with the grinder and wire brush just now, didn't find anything apart from lots of minor pitting on the bits where the paint was missing, and a tiny pin hole down near the other holes. Question is, how would I get rust converter inside the frame after the holes are welded up? As far as I can see, that section has no openings anywhere. Drill a small hole somewhere and then seal it afterwards? Yeah, old sh*t is fun to restore isn't it? There is a positive side to all of this, now that I've got more work to do, it'll take me longer so I can spend some time cleaning up and painting other bits that I would have otherwise left alone if it were a 'quick' project. And yeah you're right actually, I've got plenty of greys now so the paint probably helped
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Post by JonW on Mar 22, 2020 4:07:39 GMT 1
Blasting is always a good test for old metal, you'll know what repairs are needed once thats done.
no real harm in adding some 'drain holes' and plugging them up after.
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tooch
Weekend rider
Posts: 70
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Post by tooch on Mar 23, 2020 9:21:29 GMT 1
Bit more messing around yesterday and today. Found a rust spot at the bottom of the swing arm. Picked at it and then drilled it out to check the metal out. Inside was full of rust flakes. Still seems to be a decent amount of metal there so I might just weld it up and give it a solid treatment of rust converter. Removed the rear tyre, found a small bend/flat spot on the rim. Didn't take a before picture sorry. Sorted it by heating up and gently bending it with an adjustable wrench Much better, almost completely gone (the part that was bent is at the very top of the wheel in this pic)
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 24, 2020 1:43:35 GMT 1
If you have two axle stands with a sharpshooter Vee on the top, put your axle through the wheels and place the axle in the Vee, spinning the wheels will give a good idea if they are straight or not
Also be careful heating aluminium, it can crack if you bend it, believe it or not you freeze it to allow bending
You’re going to busy I see
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tooch
Weekend rider
Posts: 70
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Post by tooch on Mar 24, 2020 10:47:25 GMT 1
If you have two axle stands with a sharpshooter Vee on the top, put your axle through the wheels and place the axle in the Vee, spinning the wheels will give a good idea if they are straight or not Also be careful heating aluminium, it can crack if you bend it, believe it or not you freeze it to allow bending You’re going to busy I see Thanks for the tip, I'll give them a spin Yeah, I was wary of heating them up too much. I used a heat gun and did it gently, it only needed a few MM. If it were any worse I'd have binned the wheel, have seen spares pretty cheap lately. Had no idea about the freezing though! And yep, I'm going to be very bloody busy. Not going to be going anywhere aside from work for the next 6 months at least though
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Post by JonW on Mar 24, 2020 12:48:32 GMT 1
Give it all the taps you need, its minimally bent I reckon. Ive bashed out way worse.
Defo check it for round and wobble.
Ive had to weld a swinger (well to be honest a mate did it for me as I wasnt in the country lol) as it was so rusty. Easy enough to do tho.
Hmm... Those are the wrong bolts on that disk, the OEMS have much larger heads and I suspect are sized that way for a reason.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 24, 2020 17:30:12 GMT 1
Yes those disc bolts do look dodgy
The stainless ones advertised on fleabay unfortunately are not much better in head size, stick with the originals
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Post by stusco on Mar 24, 2020 17:41:06 GMT 1
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Post by JonW on Mar 25, 2020 12:55:32 GMT 1
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 25, 2020 15:00:42 GMT 1
Yep head size too small on the Yambits ones, new ones aren't that expensive in reality, $20 Aud per disc genuine, or $17 per disc non genuine
You really don't want to be messing with the disc bolts, stopping could become an issue !
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tooch
Weekend rider
Posts: 70
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Post by tooch on May 23, 2020 10:42:21 GMT 1
Long time no update! All of this lockdown/coronavirus stuff has had me shook, so I've only moved on this at a snail's pace. Barely left the house apart from work, but got cracking on a couple of things in the last few weeks. I posted the oil pump off to Arrow, and it sat at Melbourne Airport for nearly a month waiting for an international flight. He received it a couple of days ago and informed me that the cams were worn well below spec, so it's a good thing I sent it to the expert! Sorted the wheels. Man, what a freaking tedious job! I can honestly say this nearly made me lose interest in the whole project. Glad it's done now though, pretty happy with the results and it's inspired me to crack on with the rest of the bike now. Paint stripping was a total bear of a job. I think it's partly because most paint stripper in Australia now is the "safe" rubbish, so it takes a lot of applications and effort. Also, the paint that had been put on these was so thick and intact that the stripper struggled to break it. This was after at least 2 applications One wheel stripped, polishing started Polishing 50/50 shot. I didn't go for a 'fine' mirror finish, instead I polished down to 400 grit and then hit them with the Dremel and Autosol. Pretty pleased with how they came up, it's kind of a 'shiny patina' look. Will be easier to maintain too as it's not completely perfect. Masking. So, so, so tedious. Liquid encouragement pictured. My ghetto spray booth. Bathroom renovations came in handy for this Etch primer done Top coats done, inside for drying (too bloody cold outside at the moment!). Masking tape not removed yet And the finished result! I'll give the paint a week or so to cure, and then I'll tidy up the slightly rough edges. Although to be honest I'm pretty happy with them as-is. I'll get some new wheel bearings and seals ordered, new sprocket, new rear brake rotor and bolts, and tyres. Next job is to get the frame off to a sandblaster, and drop it to my friend to weld the rust holes up. Decided I'll paint it after that rather than powder coat.
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Post by oldbritguy on May 23, 2020 11:01:57 GMT 1
Top job on those wheels. A labour of love indeed Turned out as good as new. Well done. That is the standard set for the rest of the build John
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Post by panzermatt on May 23, 2020 11:52:11 GMT 1
brilliant job.
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Post by tony2stroke on May 23, 2020 11:53:18 GMT 1
They look great as is to me mate, no one is going to look as closely as you you do anyway, but try and get that stray pube off in the last photo bloody things get everywhere
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Post by JonW on May 23, 2020 13:20:03 GMT 1
Wheels came out well, defo worth the effort.
A couple of things that may help if you did this again:
1, car painters line tape from ebay would help make the masking much easier. I can mask a wheel in 20mins etc.
2, KBS do an aircraft stripper, but also the places that supply the bodyshop trade do good stuff. I buy mine from a firm that makes body paint in Sydney, $45 for 4L and pretty strong.
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tooch
Weekend rider
Posts: 70
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Post by tooch on May 23, 2020 13:27:42 GMT 1
They look great as is to me mate, no one is going to look as closely as you you do anyway, but try and get that stray pube off in the last photo bloody things get everywhere Hahahaha . That's what it looks like but it's actually a strange casting mark in the wheel!
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tooch
Weekend rider
Posts: 70
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Post by tooch on May 23, 2020 13:30:18 GMT 1
Wheels came out well, defo worth the effort. A couple of things that may help if you did this again: 1, car painters line tape from ebay would help make the masking much easier. I can mask a wheel in 20mins etc. 2, KBS do an aircraft stripper, but also the places that supply the bodyshop trade do good stuff. I buy mine from a firm that makes body paint in Sydney, $45 for 4L and pretty strong. Thanks Jon! I actually saw that line tape at Autobarn the other day, long after I'd already done the masking unfortunately! I think I saw that KBS stripper online when I was trying to find the US style Aircraft Stripper that's always mentioned. I just ended up going with what I could find at Repco locally, I don't think there are any proper bodyshop trade suppliers near me. If I ever do this again though I'll put in the effort to find some good stuff
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 27, 2020 1:35:17 GMT 1
You don’t need to look too far to find good paint stripper
Bunnings and Autobarn, Repco would do one too, they all get them from the same place more or less just get the one made with Methylene Chloride or known by its other name Dichloromethane, that’s what I used and it works fine, although a few goes are necessary, that wheel paint sticks pretty well
Don’t buy the one wth Sodium Hydroxide or Caustic Soda in it, it dissolves aluminium
It will attack anything organic, rubber, plastic and includes you, it burns, so wear thick nitrile gloves when handling it and a full face shield if blasting off with a pressure cleaner
Also give the area a bit of a sand first to break the surface, it gives the stripper an easier job to break through
I then used a hand held sand blaster to finish the job off
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Post by JonW on May 27, 2020 1:59:21 GMT 1
Hmm, I dunno Howard. Ive not seen any paint stripper sold in the shops you mention that was any good at all. :/ But agree on your advice about the contents
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Post by tacky1 on May 27, 2020 2:41:23 GMT 1
Very nice job on the wheels, They look a 100 times better,
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tooch
Weekend rider
Posts: 70
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Post by tooch on May 28, 2020 8:18:55 GMT 1
I enquired with some sandblasters around my area and got quotes from $140-200 just for blasting. Screw that. I'm trying to keep costs down as much as I can right now, plus I was bored. So I decided to give that crappy paint stripper a go on the frame. Applied it thickly, this is after it sitting for an hour or so Gave it a good scrub with steel wool and wrapped it in black plastic This is how it looked after leaving it for nearly 24 hours, and scrubbing it with steel wool a couple of times during that 24h. Unwrapped it and pressure cleaned it. I was surprised at how well it actually did! Lots of little bits of paint left, and you can see why the old paint completely failed, lots of light surface rust all over Wire brush on the angle grinder takes it off with minimal effort. This is after probably 30 mins or so. The metal is pretty solid, haven't found any more spots of rust other than those few small holes I discovered when I disassembled the bike. So it seems that the secret to this 'safe' paint stripper working is patience. Slop it all over and wrap the part up in plastic, and let it sit for 24 hours or so. Scrub it with steel wool a couple of times during that period, and wrap it back up again. Pressure clean it to remove it all.
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Post by zig on May 28, 2020 9:10:14 GMT 1
I enquired with some sandblasters around my area and got quotes from $140-200 just for blasting. Screw that. I'm trying to keep costs down as much as I can right now, plus I was bored. So I decided to give that crappy paint stripper a go on the frame. Applied it thickly, this is after it sitting for an hour or so Gave it a good scrub with steel wool and wrapped it in black plastic This is how it looked after leaving it for nearly 24 hours, and scrubbing it with steel wool a couple of times during that 24h. Unwrapped it and pressure cleaned it. I was surprised at how well it actually did! Lots of little bits of paint left, and you can see why the old paint completely failed, lots of light surface rust all over Wire brush on the angle grinder takes it off with minimal effort. This is after probably 30 mins or so. The metal is pretty solid, haven't found any more spots of rust other than those few small holes I discovered when I disassembled the bike. So it seems that the secret to this 'safe' paint stripper working is patience. Slop it all over and wrap the part up in plastic, and let it sit for 24 hours or so. Scrub it with steel wool a couple of times during that period, and wrap it back up again. Pressure clean it to remove it all. More satisfying doing these things yourself ZiG
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tooch
Weekend rider
Posts: 70
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Post by tooch on May 28, 2020 10:28:12 GMT 1
More satisfying doing these things yourself ZiG Exactly right! Part of me doing this project was to challenge myself to actually do as much as I could by myself without giving up in frustration
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Post by zig on May 29, 2020 9:26:10 GMT 1
More satisfying doing these things yourself ZiG Exactly right! Part of me doing this project was to challenge myself to actually do as much as I could by myself without giving up in frustration When you finish and step back + take a look at your photo's ......when it all come's together it will be worth it I finished my Hybrid at the start of this year and I still look back at my pic's...when I started out taking the bike apart I was nearly sorry I started....so ENJOY ZiG
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Post by lb on May 29, 2020 23:44:07 GMT 1
Mmmm welding frames & swing arms not much fun...
Link is down your way too if you need your crank rebuilt.
Luv how rims turned out,your doing a great job of it.
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