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Post by headcoats on Jan 29, 2020 21:04:41 GMT 1
Hit the buffers by the look of things
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Post by headcoats on Jan 29, 2020 21:11:26 GMT 1
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Post by midlifecrisisrd on Jan 29, 2020 21:17:06 GMT 1
Bummer 🙁
Steve
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Post by mak595 on Jan 29, 2020 21:26:43 GMT 1
Still owe J McG a shit load of money as well...
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Post by earthman on Jan 29, 2020 21:36:41 GMT 1
Their bikes were just too damn expensive in the first place me thinks??
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Post by veg on Jan 29, 2020 21:38:56 GMT 1
If you do a search on Stuart Garner and Norton he’s had a bad rep since 2010 ish and been borderline for many many years, then if you look at the business model and production values etc surprised it hasn’t happened before, outside of mcn he has a reputation which is less than stellar. Sad but not surprised.
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Post by peddrotzr on Jan 29, 2020 21:54:33 GMT 1
I Hope the pension fund gets the money back that the company "borrowed" last year!
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Post by rigga on Jan 29, 2020 22:15:01 GMT 1
I Hope the pension fund gets the money back that the company "borrowed" last year! If a company is in such dire straights is syphons off pension money, the chances of it being repaid I would think are slim. Garner seems to be a barrow boy gone up in the world. |
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Post by oldbritguy on Jan 30, 2020 0:35:37 GMT 1
Oh dear!
A real shame as the new Nortons are stunning bikes. I suppose it is always a risk with small batch production of hand made machines which are beyond the means of the average Joe just looking for a bike.
Priced themselves out of the game methinks. That and poor management by the sounds of it too.
Hope the workers get sorted ok
Does that mean Peter Hickman's looking for another super lightweight job for the TT this year?
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Post by donkeychomp on Jan 30, 2020 0:49:20 GMT 1
That is a shame. If they had done what Triumph did...
I bet someone takes it over again as the bikes they make are stunning but yes, way overpriced.
Alex
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Post by cbm on Jan 30, 2020 8:08:10 GMT 1
As I posted on the 2T forum, If comments made by extremely disgruntled past & present customers, McPint and other sources within the industry are to be believed Mr Garner may well have a much bigger problem than a £300k tax bill. Lets be honest as a brand they were f*cked by the mid 70's and have continued to try and sell us "enthusiasts" the same old outdated crap since  |
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Post by earthman on Jan 30, 2020 8:43:21 GMT 1
That is a shame. If they had done what Triumph did... I bet someone takes it over again as the bikes they make are stunning but yes, way overpriced. Alex Yes, that's spot on I say. Working there would have been my dream job, two men assemble one bike from start to finish apparently, unlike at the production line at Triumph etc. Trouble is, can the boss of a company make that viable money wise without charging a fortune per bike?? |
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Post by JonW on Jan 30, 2020 12:38:44 GMT 1
The Triumph factory is amazing and very high tech, Norton was more like Morgan was when Sir John Harvey Jones went to try and sort them out in the 80s from what Ive read over the years, nice but more of a cottage industry than mass production... which is what Triumph is, and their bikes cost what mass produced bikes do and they seem to sell well so that model is working for them.
You can build bikes like Norton did, but as has been said they need to cost a lot... and for that you need buyers. Perhaps the bikes were not 'special enough' for the money/clients. The trick to having a business is to work out what the market is and then fill the gap, you cant just make something and hope it sells :/
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Post by earthman on Jan 30, 2020 14:52:29 GMT 1
The Triumph factory is amazing and very high tech, Norton was more like Morgan was when Sir John Harvey Jones went to try and sort them out in the 80s from what Ive read over the years, nice but more of a cottage industry than mass production... which is what Triumph is, and their bikes cost what mass produced bikes do and they seem to sell well so that model is working for them. You can build bikes like Norton did, but as has been said they need to cost a lot... and for that you need buyers. Perhaps the bikes were not 'special enough' for the money/clients. The trick to having a business is to work out what the market is and then fill the gap, you cant just make something and hope it sells :/ I like that last sentence, Yamaha should be asking themselves that about bringing out a retro LC hey. Get or copy KTM's emissions compliant 2 stroke engine, that would make it sell?? |
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Post by veg on Jan 30, 2020 16:46:12 GMT 1
Bloor invested heavily in what was the technology of the time he copied Kawasaki’s gpz900/1000 rx then started small he also got key staff in to design produce and manage the business knowing that he wasn’t a manufacturer and it grew from a smallish industrial unit to the size it is today.
Garner from my understanding micromanaged the business knowing nothing about manufacturing and used an incredibly old design 1950’s 500 engine ignored all advice about updating it and making it easier to produce and tighter tolerances etc and created a lot of bad feeling.
It’s sad but ultimately I feel sorry for the staff.
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murp
Drag-strip hero
Posts: 239
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Post by murp on Jan 30, 2020 19:18:36 GMT 1
didn't a lot of people put down deposits for the new 650 atlas range...... if so have they lost it ?
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Post by rigga on Jan 30, 2020 20:34:32 GMT 1
They become creditors, and have to join the list of those owed money.
Its a great shame, every bike show for the last few years I've stood on the Norton stand and lusted after one of their bikes, Domiracer being the main one. To say they produced, or attempted to, outdated crap is a little unfair, some of their designs were really good, the proposed supercharged twin being one.
Also I read somewhere recently, dunno if true, that John Bloor purchased triumph as a loss leader for his business, so basicly to write tax off against, and it was more than a suprise to him it was actually good business, and it made money ..... who knew!
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Post by veg on Jan 30, 2020 21:04:29 GMT 1
If you read up a little about the 920 motor I believe it was a kenny drear design, lots of engineers in the know suggested improvements and were paid to consult on it they were ignored it apparently would have made it easier to make and more reliable however they were over ruled, bloor took his time he hired a very small industrial unit in Coventry at the courtaulds plant he hired some brilliant engineers gave them carte Blanche they spent £10’s of thousands buying gpz bits from Nck in Coventry and developed their early bikes from there. I loved the look of the latest Norton nearly bought one, did some research and bought elsewhere because of the known concerns. It appears that the problems were well known in the trade and press but no one wanted to rock the boat or undermine the credibility of the company. I’m guessing more will become apparent as time goes on and the truth will out, then we should be able to say factually.
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Post by rigga on Jan 30, 2020 21:31:00 GMT 1
Early triumphs were very close relations to the gpz kwacks, but that gave them breathing room to design their own whilst bringing money in, mate still has an original t5 Daytona (having had the frame recall too) and I had a 955 speedtriple which was awesome.
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Post by cbm on Feb 1, 2020 9:06:24 GMT 1
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Post by veg on Feb 1, 2020 9:38:28 GMT 1
Is that all mcguiness gets for a race ? £60k I know they do it for the love, but !
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Post by earthman on Feb 1, 2020 12:30:03 GMT 1
Is that all mcguiness gets for a race ? £60k I know they do it for the love, but ! Like with all sports, personally I think that they are all paid way too much to be honest, try living on a minimum or just above it paid job like the majority of people in this country. Sure, racing is dangerous, he could lose his life doing it but it is his choice to take part in the first place. |
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Post by veg on Feb 1, 2020 12:48:51 GMT 1
I get where you're coming from and i work in the social sector so understand and appreciate the reality for many people and how austerity has hammered people (honestly don't get me started). I am just surprised when you consider how much other sports people get kicking a bag of air about and even top level bike racers, in comparison when you consider the scale of the IoM TT races and the fact he is the most successful living racer on the roads (or at least the IoM) just seems surprising.
Back on track though, seems Garner wanted the kudos (and the financial rewards) that came from owning Norton more than actually ensuring it was a viable concern.
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Post by steve h on Feb 1, 2020 16:15:02 GMT 1
It ain't just "austerity" that's hammered people. Some of us have had no choice but to work for f**king agencies for years and years. And in 1997 nothing changed...at all!! Despite "our" party gaining power.
Its great working next to people on more money doing the same job getting pension payments, sick pay, holiday pay, expenses, and above all a stable job that you can get a mortgage on (unlike being a temp when the bank just says f**k off)
We've had austerity for decades... And we now have zero hours arrangements... nice.
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Post by veg on Feb 1, 2020 16:48:14 GMT 1
Well it aint going to get any easier thats for sure. Done some work for the trussell trust biggest food banks in the UK, it isn't 'scroungers' using it but normal people who are struggling and it includes many professionals that you would never imagine would need to call on their services.
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Post by steve h on Feb 1, 2020 17:02:20 GMT 1
Well it aint going to get any easier thats for sure. Done some work for the trussell trust biggest food banks in the UK, it isn't 'scroungers' using it but normal people who are struggling and it includes many professionals that you would never imagine would need to call on their services. Yeah dead right. I'm ok but some workmates have been in real trouble. In between jobs with no income. rent to pay, kids to feed, and no help whatsoever from anywhere... so they have had to take the 1st job offered even when it was garbage. What wrankles me is the system. It is there to help (supposedly) But what I have experienced is, its only there for those that "wont" |
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Post by steve h on Feb 1, 2020 17:09:53 GMT 1
You can still buy a "real" Norton and one that doesn't just pay homage to a real one. They can be had in Burntwood from Norvil. Waiting list for a rebuilt one (you supply doner) or a new from parts one, may pale into insignificance the length of the wait for a 250 to 370 job though  I've looked into it for my Mando yrs ago.. wasn't cheap then! |
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Post by JonW on Feb 2, 2020 2:18:02 GMT 1
As an aside, I think its worth mentioning that you can visit the UK Triumph factory for not much money and its a superb tour, plus they have a sensibly priced cafe and decent merch shop with their gear in it. I've visited a lot of factories over the years (including Jaguar, Nissan, Hyundai etc etc) and reckon Triumph is well worth the trip. Has a museum as well which is free, lots of parking and very friendly.
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Post by sbscnor on Feb 2, 2020 11:33:02 GMT 1
As an aside, I think its worth mentioning that you can visit the UK Triumph factory for not much money and its a superb tour, plus they have a sensibly priced cafe and decent merch shop with their gear in it. I've visited a lot of factories over the years (including Jaguar, Nissan, Hyundai etc etc) and reckon Triumph is well worth the trip. Has a museum as well which is free, lots of parking and very friendly. Did it last your great day out but try not to go on a Sunday as you don't actually see any bikes being built |
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Post by wassy06 on Feb 5, 2020 11:26:07 GMT 1
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