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Post by philmill on Mar 22, 2019 16:37:41 GMT 1
So I fitted the number plate carrier today, and it seems something is out of line, I think I've got a bent frame  the rear wheel and the number plate carrier do not line up, I'm assuming they are supposed to, it would look a bit wrong otherwise. As you can see there is a good 20mm difference one side to the other.  xUCMi6otQj2YibnZ4T4xNA by Philip Millard, on Flickr |
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Post by 4l04ever on Mar 22, 2019 17:03:47 GMT 1
Take the rear plastics and mudguard off and do the same photo to check what is actually off centre. It may need some adjustment with a big bar...
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Post by midlifecrisisrd on Mar 22, 2019 17:33:26 GMT 1
My 3hm1 is worse than that
The tail light bracket can be twisted and causes this. Mine certainly is.
As a rough guide you can do 3 things
1) take the tail light bracket off and with the bike sitting as level as possible check with a spirit level at the front of the rear rails where it mounts to cross rail then at the rear.
Both should from memory be level
2) take a bit of spring from the centre of the yoke bolt and string it to the centre of the rail the rear muddy bolts to
It should run through the rear tank bolt centrally
3) with the bike sitting stable on its stand mark the centre of the tyre on the floor then take the rear wheel off and drop a plumb line from the centre of the rear of the frame to see if it lines with the wheel centre
I do mine on a paved patio so when on the centre stand the front and rear wheels are on one of the straight lines.
It's level and allows a plumb line along the frame centre
Steve
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Post by philmill on Mar 22, 2019 17:46:32 GMT 1
Thanks Steve, I'll do that and see what's what. I did the spirit level trick and its seems close, I also checked from the top of the grab rail bracket to the wheel spindle, there was a 4mm difference which isn't enough to give such a visible difference.
Phil
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Post by oldbritguy on Mar 22, 2019 18:43:39 GMT 1
From the photo Phil, it looks like the wheel is slightly off centre and closer to the swingarm at the RHS.
Gap at spindle to wheel is defo different on each side
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Post by marrcel on Mar 23, 2019 9:08:20 GMT 1
First centre the rim.
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Post by midlifecrisisrd on Mar 23, 2019 11:20:30 GMT 1
From the photo Phil, it looks like the wheel is slightly off centre and closer to the swingarm at the RHS. Gap at spindle to wheel is defo different on each side The RGV arm isn't symmetrical so difficult to tell They are known to be a bit off depending on what life they have lived Steve |
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Post by midlifecrisisrd on Mar 23, 2019 11:22:12 GMT 1
Thanks Steve, I'll do that and see what's what. I did the spirit level trick and its seems close, I also checked from the top of the grab rail bracket to the wheel spindle, there was a 4mm difference which isn't enough to give such a visible difference. Phil 4mm is only a 2mm out of line which is nowt, the arms are all slightly different Steve |
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Post by philmill on Mar 23, 2019 18:31:56 GMT 1
This is a strange one, from best I cantle if I move the wheel over I'd need something like a 17mm offset front sprocket. the rear wheel is set up like everybody else's so I'm assuming its correct, although I agree it seems slightly off. I stripped everything off the back end of the frame and its is out, you need to string line it but it its out. The back end of the frame isnt that strong, I used a long bolt into the back open frame tube and a old fork stanchion and it was quite easy to move the whole rear section of the frame over, I'm happy now its all pretty straight. I will however remove the rear wheel and double check the alignment of the wheels.
Phil
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Post by midlifecrisisrd on Mar 23, 2019 20:08:55 GMT 1
17mm off set is way off
After the Lc's alignment issues I'm convinced the rgv arms are all over the place
Try the 2 straight planks against the rear wheel and see how it is compared to the front
Steve
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Post by philmill on Mar 24, 2019 12:04:29 GMT 1
So this is now starting to get to me! With my 2m straight edge running from the rear wheel forward it seems the wheel alignment is way off, like WAY OFF. Probably 20-25mm difference, the looking at the bike while it was on the paddock stand outside it looks like the forks go off to one side, but I have tried a plumb line and they seem straight. I have now go the bike on the bench and trying to measure the swinging arm and anything else to see if something is bent, but I’m struggling. I have the bike level according to a spirit level, and if I measure either side of the swinging arm bolt down to the bench I get a couple of mm difference, Luke wise the rear wheel spindle to the bench, then if I go from the frame tubes right at the end behind the rear light again it’s a couple of mm, I doubt it was ever totally perfect. But I’m struggling to work out where the issue is! I can see me having to send this away to get the frame checked because I think it’s beyond my ability to figure where the problem lies. So I Motoliner the best place and how much do I need to strip? Can the wiring loom etc stay on or is it a total strip down again 😢
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Post by marsbar350 on Mar 24, 2019 12:25:12 GMT 1
took mine to nigel Kimber nkracing
check wheel alignment and frame in his motoliner jig cost 90 pounds
rearwheel adjuster markings were way out on the swingarm
all sorted now
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Post by midlifecrisisrd on Mar 24, 2019 12:27:57 GMT 1
It's difficult now it's built
It's a bit easier to check as just a rolling chassis. The engine gets in the way of string lines and you can't exactly turn it upside down
Steve
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Post by midlifecrisisrd on Mar 24, 2019 12:28:49 GMT 1
As marsbar says, don't rely on the adjuster marks
Steve
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Post by marsbar350 on Mar 24, 2019 12:36:02 GMT 1
for rearwheel alignment measure from the middle of the swingarm spindle to the middle of the wheel spindle.check both sides
see if thres a difference in lengths
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Post by philmill on Mar 24, 2019 14:24:30 GMT 1
Ok so I’ve checked the rear wheel alignment, it was a bit out but not so much, I’ve pulled that into line but it’s not really helping, I think the front part of the frame is bent, so effectively the forks are off to one side. Roughly looking at it I think I’d need to rear wheel to almost maximum mis-adjustment to get the front wheel anywhere like to be in the centre of the straight edge. Oh well I guess I’m stripping it all down again. The annoying thing is I’m back at work next week until May so not going to be going any further with this build for a while... and I thought I was nearly there 😢
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Post by raven13 on Mar 24, 2019 14:37:11 GMT 1
So this is now starting to get to me! With my 2m straight edge running from the rear wheel forward it seems the wheel alignment is way off, like WAY OFF. Probably 20-25mm difference, the looking at the bike while it was on the paddock stand outside it looks like the forks go off to one side, but I have tried a plumb line and they seem straight. I have now go the bike on the bench and trying to measure the swinging arm and anything else to see if something is bent, but I’m struggling. I have the bike level according to a spirit level, and if I measure either side of the swinging arm bolt down to the bench I get a couple of mm difference, Luke wise the rear wheel spindle to the bench, then if I go from the frame tubes right at the end behind the rear light again it’s a couple of mm, I doubt it was ever totally perfect. But I’m struggling to work out where the issue is! I can see me having to send this away to get the frame checked because I think it’s beyond my ability to figure where the problem lies. So I Motoliner the best place and how much do I need to strip? Can the wiring loom etc stay on or is it a total strip down again 😢 We do motoliner frame straightening at www.kpmotorcycles.co.uk/www.facebook.com/Kp-MotorCycles-112923448787085/based in Leeds so if its any good to you feel free to give us a shout |
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Post by philmill on Mar 24, 2019 16:24:11 GMT 1
So in case I’m doing something stupid, here’s a couple of pics of the difference side to side on the front wheel, this is using a straight edge off the rear wheel. The rear wheel is now aligned using a measure and not the marking on the swinging arm, a difference now of about 5mm on one side.   |
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Post by philmill on Mar 24, 2019 16:34:34 GMT 1
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Post by midlifecrisisrd on Mar 24, 2019 16:44:08 GMT 1
Try lining the wheel by measuring from the centre of the swing arm pivot bolt to the centre of the wheel spindle and see how the gaps at the back are and how the wheel sits
Steve
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Post by philmill on Mar 24, 2019 16:46:18 GMT 1
Hi Steve, I did that earleir, so that’s why I have the difference on both side adjusters now. The distance is the same both side now. But as you can see there is still miles out of centre on the front wheel.
Phil
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Post by philmill on Mar 24, 2019 17:11:56 GMT 1
Am I right in thinking the distance for the centres from front to rear wheel spindles should be the same? If so then mine is pretty close so that must mean the headstock is bent! Anybody think of any other reason??
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Post by LC_BOTT on Mar 24, 2019 19:40:01 GMT 1
Another suggestion might be the yokes are twisted or bent, (rather than the frame) are they aftermarket or standard RGV ones. Not easy to spot if they've been in an accident.
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Post by philmill on Mar 24, 2019 19:57:18 GMT 1
The yokes are original RGV ones modded by NK. I’ve got the bike all stripped down now, just need to find the closest frame jig!! Any recommendations? I’ve used Motoliner in Maidstone before but they are a 3 hours drive from me. Anybody know anywhere closer to Southampton?
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Post by midlifecrisisrd on Mar 24, 2019 20:06:57 GMT 1
A lot of places want the frame with forks/wheels and engine fitted
Steve
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Post by philmill on Mar 24, 2019 20:08:32 GMT 1
I can build as much as they need, although it’ll have to be done when I get there, needs to be stripped to fit in the back of my Golf!!
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Post by marsbar350 on Mar 24, 2019 20:23:38 GMT 1
phil have you any pics of the front end ? side on and front view  |
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Post by philmill on Mar 24, 2019 20:34:57 GMT 1
I've only got this one from the side, nothing taken from the front I'm afraid.  IMG_3747 by Philip Millard, on Flickr |
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Post by marsbar350 on Mar 24, 2019 20:47:19 GMT 1
what are the gaps between calipers and discs are they the same?
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Post by philmill on Mar 24, 2019 20:49:42 GMT 1
Yes, it took a lot of sorting as the VJ23 forks have different spacers and nut set up. But the front end is a good 20mm out of line as you can see in the photo
Phil
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the rear wheel and the number plate carrier do not line up, I'm assuming they are supposed to, it would look a bit wrong otherwise. As you can see there is a good 20mm difference one side to the other.
