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Post by marrcel on Feb 5, 2020 21:10:21 GMT 1
Looks great Tony, Dutch courage durex? Rubber racing? Don't mention rubber, you might get Marrcel all excited An umbrella girl with full latex kissed me awake this morning. 😎🤪 |
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Post by veg on Feb 5, 2020 21:42:27 GMT 1
I posted that a while ago 😁
It’s my other hobby building scale bikes👍
Did Alex send it to you?
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Post by Tobyjugs on Feb 5, 2020 21:49:14 GMT 1
I posted that a while ago 😁 It’s my other hobby building scale bikes👍 Did Alex send it to you? No not Alex, strange how i missed that link. |
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Post by Tobyjugs on Feb 8, 2020 16:19:16 GMT 1
I was thinking about posting this question as a separate question, but it is about this bike so i thought i would post it here.
What do people think of super-finishing the gearbox components?
I have seen Nova Gear components and they are super-finished, but i wonder if the cost is worth it?
I've read that they have a lower friction ratio due to being smoother, does this really mean anything as there has to be an oil film between the gears which theoretically negates this claim.
If someone has any views on this subject or has experience and uses super-finished components please comment.
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Mad Biker
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Post by Mad Biker on Feb 8, 2020 16:53:09 GMT 1
It will create less friction, which should mean more horsepower but weather that is measurable I don't know! The main thing you feel is a much slicker gearchanges and more positive engagement. The gears are less prone to fatigue cracking, it runs cooler, under less stress so prolongs the life. Although with a 443 being used hard the standard gearbox is going to get a really hard time even if it is super finished.
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Post by dusty350 on Feb 8, 2020 19:40:55 GMT 1
I was looking at superfinishing on Youtube a few days back. You could make something at home that will do the job. I also wonder if vapour blasting gears would have the same effect ? Dusty  |
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Post by Tobyjugs on Feb 9, 2020 17:04:37 GMT 1
I was looking at superfinishing on Youtube a few days back. You could make something at home that will do the job. I also wonder if vapour blasting gears would have the same effect ? Dusty I will check out you tube Dusty. I surface roughness of vapour blasting will still be high. I can only find positive comments but they all seem to be made by people selling the service/product. Does anyone know of any negative feedback or is this a miracle product. |
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Post by dusty350 on Feb 10, 2020 8:17:01 GMT 1
The Youtube pics show various home built set ups - some working better than others, and various media used ranging from cat litter to coarse sand and others ! One shows some fairly rusty bolts going in and coming out much later, surprisingly free of rust ! I was speaking to Jamie - the vapour blasting guy about it, as the gear clusters that came out of my 400e engine were a bit rusty, and he said try vapour blasting them. I could then polish them on my mops to give the polished finish. Maybe good as an experiment when I am looking for something to do, but I've picked up a mint set of clusters now so it's something for another day. It does seem a tad expensive when you consider how simple a process it is. Dusty |
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Post by stusco on Feb 10, 2020 15:46:20 GMT 1
If they are rusty won’t that have damaged the hardening so can’t be used with confidence
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Post by dusty350 on Feb 10, 2020 18:07:34 GMT 1
That's why I bought another set. I was interested in the super finishing process, and what it involved. Seems an expensive process for what it is ??
Dusty🙂
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Post by jon on Feb 10, 2020 19:08:43 GMT 1
I’ve seen a super finished RD gearbox, but more importantly FELT it.
Individual gears use seem to slide over each other with almost zero friction.
Sure for a high power racing engine it’s the last thing on a long list, but I doubt it makes any noticeable difference in perform a certain on our bikes?
Jon
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Post by Tobyjugs on Feb 10, 2020 22:19:00 GMT 1
The Youtube pics show various home built set ups - some working better than others, and various media used ranging from cat litter to coarse sand and others ! One shows some fairly rusty bolts going in and coming out much later, surprisingly free of rust ! I was speaking to Jamie - the vapour blasting guy about it, as the gear clusters that came out of my 400e engine were a bit rusty, and he said try vapour blasting them. I could then polish them on my mops to give the polished finish. Maybe good as an experiment when I am looking for something to do, but I've picked up a mint set of clusters now so it's something for another day. It does seem a tad expensive when you consider how simple a process it is. Dusty I checked out some of the videos and one had a video of rusty gears that were cleaned. the problem is where the oxidised steel is removed you will have pitting. Pitting on gear teeth faces will cause cavitation when used. Did you see the video where he removed the cat litter out the cats box and it looked like it had just used the box.  |
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Post by Tobyjugs on Feb 10, 2020 22:23:41 GMT 1
I’ve seen a super finished RD gearbox, but more importantly FELT it. Individual gears use seem to slide over each other with almost zero friction. Sure for a high power racing engine it’s the last thing on a long list, but I doubt it makes any noticeable difference in perform a certain on our bikes? Jon Im thinking more about longevity and cost of a super-finished set versus how many standard gear sets i can use for the same price. |
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Post by jon on Feb 10, 2020 22:33:20 GMT 1
I’m not an expert, but an engineer. I can’t really see the claims of longer life due to less friction and heat being that significant.
Sure the hardening of the gears during manufacture will do this, but super finishing it must be a similar process to polishing them, which wouldn’t affect the longevity much.
I could understand more if there was no oil involved, but there is.
If in doubt get it done as they are a beautiful thing to have done, and I’m sure there will be some benefits however small, but how much benefit for the cost is my logic.
On a build like yours I would consider it, but that’s only because you clearly have a goal and no fixed budget.
Jon
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Post by Tobyjugs on Feb 10, 2020 23:13:12 GMT 1
I’m not an expert, but an engineer. I can’t really see the claims of longer life due to less friction and heat being that significant. Sure the hardening of the gears during manufacture will do this, but super finishing it must be a similar process to polishing them, which wouldn’t affect the longevity much. I could understand more if there was no oil involved, but there is. If in doubt get it done as they are a beautiful thing to have done, and I’m sure there will be some benefits however small, but how much benefit for the cost is my logic. On a build like yours I would consider it, but that’s only because you clearly have a goal and no fixed budget. Jon Ha ha that last sentence made me laugh. I do have a goal but it keeps changing back and forwards and i'm still under budget until it's painted but it was a big budget to start. I think i will have to send a few emails out. |
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Post by Tobyjugs on Feb 10, 2020 23:14:17 GMT 1
It will create less friction, which should mean more horsepower but weather that is measurable I don't know! The main thing you feel is a much slicker gearchanges and more positive engagement. The gears are less prone to fatigue cracking, it runs cooler, under less stress so prolongs the life. Although with a 443 being used hard the standard gearbox is going to get a really hard time even if it is super finished. Martin is this from personal experience or feedback from customers? |
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Post by 4l04ever on Feb 11, 2020 11:41:02 GMT 1
I have seen shot peening used to destress conrods on car engines, so maybe this process does similar to the gears? Not sure about less friction or more horsepower...only way to find out is try with and without on the dyno.
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Post by Tobyjugs on Feb 11, 2020 23:55:16 GMT 1
Shot preening can be used for all sorts of purposes.
I'm not 100% sure but in the case of the con rods I think it creates a regular stress over the outside surface over the component.
I've had the inside big end borings of conrods shot peened to create a rough surface to help grip the bearing shells so they don't turn or slip in the boring.
Also I've witnessed large crankshafts being straightend with a 2lb hammer by peening the crank in the right position.
Back on the subject of Isotopic super-finishing. I have been informed it is a very good procedure.
So I think it will just come down to cost effectiveness.
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Post by dusty350 on Feb 12, 2020 8:16:50 GMT 1
Norbo lists a superfinished Lc gear cluster on an exchange basis, in his online shop. Couldn't see a Pv box listed though ? Dusty |
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Post by Tobyjugs on Feb 12, 2020 18:03:28 GMT 1
Cheers for that Dusty. My gears are a mixture of different gears.
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Post by reedpete on Feb 12, 2020 18:40:22 GMT 1
Super finishing does indeed do what is says in the tin but is really of most value to race teams..
Any transmission efficiency improvements drop the power losses which directly drops heat generated, reduce oil cooler load/size, system oil capacity, wet weight, potentially reduce aero drag...etc etc.
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Mad Biker
Drag-strip hero
We lead others try and follow.
Posts: 243
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Post by Mad Biker on Feb 12, 2020 23:49:09 GMT 1
It will create less friction, which should mean more horsepower but weather that is measurable I don't know! The main thing you feel is a much slicker gearchanges and more positive engagement. The gears are less prone to fatigue cracking, it runs cooler, under less stress so prolongs the life. Although with a 443 being used hard the standard gearbox is going to get a really hard time even if it is super finished. Martin is this from personal experience or feedback from customers? From personal experience, The standard box felt much slicker after it was super finished, but unfortunately putting 100hp through it eventually destroyed it, so I got the full Nova gearbox which has been no problem. They superfinish all their gearboxes as standard as it eliminates the break in period, so they had a more reliable product should a customer not run it when they buy one. |
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Post by 2banger on Feb 13, 2020 19:07:53 GMT 1
Cheers for that Dusty. My gears are a mixture of different gears. There's the option to complement your gear selection with 2.36 or 2.68 straight cuts There used to be conversion charts on net for ypvs combinations to inc rim sizes |
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Post by Tobyjugs on May 19, 2020 20:52:05 GMT 1
I still need to make enquiries over hear in Holland about super finishing. I will probably get a set done and ready to install when i break the engine down for maintenance. Any way its good to get back home and do some work on this bike. Since Last September I've been a bit busy and have had little time to spare for this build. The problem i had last September was that the clutch was slipping just before 7,000 rpm My plan was to put an extra set of frictions into the clutch. Using a Chariot clutch basket and a Hinson hub. I had read on the Banshee forum that this was something they did now and again. I was very lucky to find the correct hub come up for sale here in Holland. It was second hand so i thought i would take a chance and bought it. Below you can see the difference in height between the Hinson and a standard Yamaha Hub.  I really thought this was going to be plug and play. ERR no it isn't. Fittted together they sit too high and you cannot put the engine casing on. Before i learned of this problem i did open the engine and to my surprise i found a clutch spring broken.  The spring is not your usual colour because it came out of a clutch kit from Barnett. I had fitted the standard strength springs but after seeing a broken spring i thought i would just put the heavy duty version springs in which also came with the kit. So onwards and upwards |
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Post by JonW on May 20, 2020 1:52:20 GMT 1
Ive never seen a clutch spring break, thats mad! Usually they just weaken over time and become slack.
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Post by dusty350 on May 20, 2020 7:12:55 GMT 1
Looking forward to the next instalment mate  The Hinson gear is nice. I had a clutch pressure plate of theirs and it's quality kit Dusty |
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Post by marrcel on May 20, 2020 8:03:35 GMT 1
Is it possible to break the spring at the assemble? If the bottom of the spring grips and at the nut also. Was it dry or oiled?
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Post by Tobyjugs on May 20, 2020 20:54:02 GMT 1
Is it possible to break the spring at the assemble? If the bottom of the spring grips and at the nut also. Was it dry or oiled? They were mounted dry but i always centre them a little with the blade of a small screwdriver. |
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Post by Tobyjugs on May 20, 2020 20:59:04 GMT 1
Ive never seen a clutch spring break, thats mad! Usually they just weaken over time and become slack. I'm putting it down to poor quality Jon |
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Post by Tobyjugs on May 20, 2020 22:03:56 GMT 1
Now that the fairing is fitted in a position i am reasonably happy with i decided to bleed the front brakes. This went easier than i thought. First i removed the 3 bleed nipples and wrapped PTFE tape around the threads and then refitted them. I filled up the reservoir with fluid and then pushed a small tube over the bleed nipple and loosened the nipple half a turn at the most. on the other end of the pipe is a large syringe. I then draw all the air out until brake fluid with smallish bubbles is sucked into the syringe. The nipple is then tightened and i repeat on the other side. While this is happening the oil level in the reservoir is kept topped up. There is also a bleed nipple on the master cylinder which i bled the same way as the two brake callipers. Now i can feel there is pressure building up in the brake lever. After this i connect the small pipe and syringe to the callipers and bleed them by pumping fluid into the syringe using the brake lever whilst opening and closing the bleed nipple until no more bubbles are seen. The same method is used on the master cylinder until no more air bubbles comes out. When the last few small air bubbles come out of here you will feel the lever really stiffen up. This took approximately 30 minutes.  |
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