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Post by graham247 on Oct 12, 2018 23:11:33 GMT 1
Hi
I'm going to buy an RD in the new year and although I really want an 350 LC or a YPVS I have also been checking out a few ac RD400E/F's for sale as another possible option.
I've only been on the forum a short while, but based on what I have seen it looks to me that prices of a decent 400 are equal and in some cases more than a similar condition 350?
I've only seen a few adverts but would appreciate thoughts of other forum members...
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Post by Ozhammer on Oct 13, 2018 1:37:00 GMT 1
I would say that mint 400E/F’s are commanding higher prices than equivalent LC’s. There’s not much in it performance-wise between the two, the LC being faster, whilst the 400 is torquier. I have both and like them equally for different reasons. If I had to sell one though, I would probably keep the 400, as it has a bit more character.
HTH
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Post by earthman on Oct 13, 2018 7:47:12 GMT 1
Do you plan on keeping/riding this bike for many years or are you in it just for money reasons?
If the former, I'd say go with your heart and get an LC/YPVS,...like the bike you've used for your avatar.
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Post by graham247 on Oct 13, 2018 8:04:20 GMT 1
Do you plan on keeping/riding this bike for many years or are you in it just for money reasons? If the former, I'd say go with your heart and get an LC/YPVS,...like the bike you've used for your avatar. Hi well it's basically going to be a keeper that is ridden regularly, I'm not in it for the money reasons. If I am honest my heart says the LC or the YPVS..... I was just interested in members thoughts. |
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Post by reedpete on Oct 13, 2018 8:31:20 GMT 1
Depending how old you are there will have only been one of those you drooled over when you were 18 or 19. So if you have to pick one then it should be that one.
But many of us had aircooled bikes then progressed to LC and on and on.
No matter which one you buy first you’ll probably buy the other one next ...
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Post by graham247 on Oct 13, 2018 9:37:08 GMT 1
Depending how old you are there will have only been one of those you drooled over when you were 18 or 19. So if you have to pick one then it should be that one. But many of us had aircooled bikes then progressed to LC and on and on. No matter which one you buy first you’ll probably buy the other one next ... Well I'm mid-50's now and had 2 x RD250F's in Robert's yellow and black back in '79. Drooled over the 400 for sure then and the 350 when it came out a couple of years later.. Saved up £17.50 a week for a year as an engineering apprentice for the first 250F.........but riding like an numpty wrote it off hitting a Ford Capri (!) after 6 weeks (doh.....)...then got a second one and decided to ride that somewhat more safely... |
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Post by mikee on Oct 13, 2018 20:05:58 GMT 1
Just depends on what you identify with , I had a 250 c at 17 , mates had 250/350/400’s and other stuff
When the lc came out it was TAKE MY MONEY , NOW
Loved that bike , had over 40 since , but only 2 air cooled
Lc’s are still a very capable bike , I imagine an aircooled would also be
Sorry to be of no help
Mike
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Post by earthman on Oct 13, 2018 20:26:23 GMT 1
Just depends on what you identify with Yes, I totally agree with that and if buying/owning an old two stroke is trying to relive your youth then you can't beat going for that particular model that you actually owned back in the day, every time I open the garage door and see mine, it instantly takes me back to being 19 again.  |
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Post by dusty350 on Oct 13, 2018 21:58:04 GMT 1
400e's do seem to command high prices - easily on a par with Lc's/pv's if not a bit more. Difficult to know if they actually sell for the prices the expensive ones are listed at. I know I was looking for a donor 400 earlier this year - I wanted an engine for my café build, but couldn't find even a rough one for decent money ! I've had quite a few aircooleds as well as Lc's and pv's, and I do feel that the water cooled bikes are a big progression on from the aircooleds. Don't get me wrong, I loved my 400e's but the Lc and Pv are a better bike in many respects, but I would happily own another "E". The beauty of the Lc range is the potential to trick them up with bling and performance parts, new tanks and panels readily available, a lighter bike to move around (aircooleds had so much more metal in them), and it's never been easier to improve/upkeep/refurb an Lc - there are so many parts available for them. All 70's/80's 2 strokes are far too much money for what they are of course, but that's the world we live in ! I'm sure you would be happy with a good example of any of them but I do feel a watercooled bike is a better option  Good luck with whatever you find Dusty |
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Post by mannanan on Oct 13, 2018 22:10:04 GMT 1
I think if you really want an LC you would probably be dissapointed with an AC. Yamaha moved with the times and although the AC models were brilliant, they produced one of the greatest two strokes of all time with the LC model. There is no comparison really unless it’s just the nostalgia of the old AC’s you are after.
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Post by graham247 on Oct 13, 2018 22:41:19 GMT 1
400e's do seem to command high prices - easily on a par with Lc's/pv's if not a bit more. Difficult to know if they actually sell for the prices the expensive ones are listed at. I know I was looking for a donor 400 earlier this year - I wanted an engine for my café build, but couldn't find even a rough one for decent money ! I've had quite a few aircooleds as well as Lc's and pv's, and I do feel that the water cooled bikes are a big progression on from the aircooleds. Don't get me wrong, I loved my 400e's but the Lc and Pv are a better bike in many respects, but I would happily own another "E". The beauty of the Lc range is the potential to trick them up with bling and performance parts, new tanks and panels readily available, a lighter bike to move around (aircooleds had so much more metal in them), and it's never been easier to improve/upkeep/refurb an Lc - there are so many parts available for them. All 70's/80's 2 strokes are far too much money for what they are of course, but that's the world we live in ! I'm sure you would be happy with a good example of any of them but I do feel a watercooled bike is a better option Good luck with whatever you find Dusty Great input Dusty thank you. I am amazed at how many new and spare parts are available for LC's just by checking out this forum. Pretty sure my first 2-T purchase will be an LC or a PV.. |
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Post by earthman on Oct 14, 2018 8:58:39 GMT 1
One benefit with the air cooled model is that there is slightly less to go wrong, no water pump/radiator etc generally makes for an easier bike to work on and of course less money spent on parts.
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Post by dusty350 on Oct 14, 2018 10:54:51 GMT 1
The aircooled bottom ends are a bit more "agricultural" compared to an Lc/pv imo. The bottom end of an Lc improved a lot over the ac's. 1 less gear selector fork and a simplified gear change system on the Lc, and no detent plunger underneath as on an ac engine. Ally plugs on the sprocket side of the gear selector shafts rarely give trouble on an Lc, whereas the rubber seals used on the ac often weeped oil, in my experience. More mechanical noise on an aircooled too. 4 engine mounting points on an ac compared to 2 on an Lc all help to add to the increased weight of the ac bikes, although the main culprits for that were big chrome guards, metal clock cups, metal oil tank, metal seat base, and although I've never weighed them against each other, an aircooled frame weighs a ton compared to an Lc - the tube they used seems really heavy duty. Yamaha did a lot with the Lc to reduce weight by using plastic instead. As a comparison, an Rd400C/D weighed 376lbs wet. An Lc weighs 328lbs wet - 48lb difference, and an improved power to weight ratio if you are bothered !! Yes, the Lc adds a water pump system and rad but it's not complicated, and the even temperature that helps to achieve allowed the Lc to gain the max from it's design. None of this really matters to me, or probably many of us now, as our needs are very different to what they were back when these bikes were new. I've had 6 or 7 ac over the years - nearly all 400's and I love them. Torquey and relatively quick still, and bags of character. I love the slabby look of the coffin tank models - very much "of their time", and for a short period, they were "THE" stroker to own. The Lc is all that and a lot more though, and the beauty of them, as already mentioned, is so much can still be bought nos, or good pattern, standard or special. Nostalgia is a powerful thing, and helps to keep these bikes alive, and whichever you buy, I'm sure you will enjoy tinkering and riding. None of the models are beyond the home mechanic, and specialists will rebuild a 400 crank as readily as a Pv, so no problems there. And of course, this Lc forum is brilliant, and free !!!  Dusty |
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Post by allspeeds on Oct 19, 2018 18:24:26 GMT 1
Get both, end of dilemma .
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Post by steve h on Oct 19, 2018 23:27:46 GMT 1
If you're after shit braking, then go for a windy E/F. If you want a 400 windy that stops, then go for a C.
If you want a bike that makes the above feel like trying to ride a 5 bar gate, buy an LC!!
Had 5 windys..the LC was a revelation.
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Post by Ozhammer on Oct 20, 2018 2:14:48 GMT 1
Aircooled bikes can be made to handle and stop quite acceptably if you know how and for any kind of sensible road riding, they are more than adequate.
Yes LC’s are better again in both departments but an Aircooled bike has a charm all of its own imho.
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lizzy
L plate rider.
Posts: 10 
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Post by lizzy on Jun 2, 2019 8:28:23 GMT 1
I’m looking for an rd400 e/f model
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Post by stormgrey1 on Jan 19, 2020 18:53:10 GMT 1
Great discussion!! I'm pondering the same, but feel drawn to a 400even though I was more from the LC era
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Post by dusty350 on Feb 5, 2020 9:09:16 GMT 1
Well. I'm back on a 400e engine rebuild, so in the process of researching part numbers and availability. It's interesting to note that a lot of engine parts are still available new from Yamaha, through Fowlers and others of course. I gave them a long list - 20 parts or more, and only 2 were back order items. Yes, some parts are nla, but that is the same with Lc and Pv's. Mitaka pistons are available in many sizes, and cranks are easily rebuilt by specialist firms. Arrow can do your oil pump, and a digital ignition is available for all models, so the engine build side of restoration can be covered off quite easily. The harder part of restoration/repair is the bodywork, although pattern mudguards are available. It's tanks that will cause the biggest headache I think - the youngest tank will be 40 years old now, and pattern tanks like the Lc ones we can now buy, aren't available for the aircooled bikes  If you are looking at an aircooled bike to buy, check the tank first. Most other parts are easily available, but a rotten tank could prove to be an expensive and difficult item to repair or replace. They are heavy bikes compared to an Lc - lots of metal parts add to the weight, but that's a 70's design for you ! They have lots of character, and are great bikes to own and ride - very torquey and still relatively quick for an old stroker ! If you do get one I'm sure you'll love it, but remember it will seem light years away from an Lc !! Dusty |
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Post by reedpete on Feb 5, 2020 11:13:42 GMT 1
Anything 2R9 is hard to find...pipes, barrels, carbs and of course clutch/primaries !
Tank topic is just a case of using the best you can find, but at least there is a reasonable population of them out there as tank for the 400E/F is common for 250/400 C,D,E,F
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