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Post by dusty350 on Aug 4, 2018 8:06:18 GMT 1
Hi Jon Yep, plan to rubber mount both ends of the plate as per the original bars. I've got a few small jobs to do on the frame before it's ready for powdercoating. Pretty sure i'm going with the powervalve engine now, so I need to site a pv servo and finally decide on coil location. I'm hoping now that any future visits to Clive will be with templates and not the frame itself - its an awkward, heavy lump to haul around with the bottom end fitted. I've never had this amount of fabrication done on a frame before, and I'm really pleased with the way it's turned out so far. Hi Alex. Yea, Clive is great. They do some clever work down there. They are doing a lot of props at the mo for a large set at Shepperton. Another "Men in Black" film is under way. The fact he is a biker helps as well - he just knows what needs to be done without having to go into great detail or the need for drawings. Dusty
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Post by dusty350 on Aug 4, 2018 10:59:50 GMT 1
The spacers I need for the torque plate are sorted. As planned, I cut the ends off a standard tie bar; 20180804_093107 by David Miller, on Flickr Then cleaned them up a bit - will improve them a bit more before I spray them; 20180804_094441 by David Miller, on Flickr And when all bolted up the plate sits nice and flat against the frame tabs; 20180804_093956 by David Miller, on Flickr 20180804_094006 by David Miller, on Flickr I have some tough rubber sheet that I will make a gasket from to go between the frame tabs and the plate, so it's not totally rigid. I'm going to order some fine pitch bolts at 45mm long which will be correct for the engine end of the plate. Ebay lists loads ! Dusty
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Post by jon on Aug 4, 2018 13:30:58 GMT 1
Hi Dusty,
I mentioned about rubber mounting because I couldn’t see how the rubbers were going to be fitted.
The original mounts at the back will have no rubber mounting effect as they are at the moment.
Putting a rubber pad between the brackets will only stop up and down movement.
The reason the tie bars and the torque washers fitted to the back right and front left engine mount is to stop the engine twisting sideways under load. As the chain takes up tension under load the engine wants to twist anti-clockwise when viewed from above.
Can you press the rubbers out of the tie bars, and then weld the outer ring onto the ‘l’ bracket you have made?
Jon
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Post by veg on Aug 4, 2018 13:39:58 GMT 1
Was going to question this as well, can’t really see how it will work but I know nowt. Nice build dusty.
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Post by jon on Aug 4, 2018 15:25:05 GMT 1
Dusty,
By the way, nice job on the side stand mount. Very well executed.
Jon
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Post by dusty350 on Aug 4, 2018 15:55:40 GMT 1
Thanks Jon and Veg. Im pleased with how its coming on. Any engineering input is welcome as my fabricating knowledge is very limited !!. Not sure if the bushes push out. I can try as i have a few tie bars i can ptactice on. And the side stand looks great when its bolted on. It will give me more room for the pipe run for sure. The plate that forms part of the stand has an angled back to it so when bolted on the stand kicks out as a stadard one would do. Hope to mock up a rolling chassis this week.
Dusty😉
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Post by veg on Aug 4, 2018 16:07:02 GMT 1
I assumed that you were going to get the bushes pushed out and the tie ends welded to the end of the plate replicating the original tie bars. Dusty my fabrication skills are nowt to write home about its a hacksaw and file for me matey, and your builds are always stunning and I love the different style of this bike.
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Post by dusty350 on Aug 4, 2018 19:39:10 GMT 1
Yea its certaily gonna be different !! Probably a bit of a "marmite" bike if im honest but the build after this one is gonna be more of a standard, run of the mill lc so i wanted to go in a different direction with this one I offered up the headlight this morning and initial thoughts are i really like it. I need to get some headlight brackets before i can try it properly but its a very "different" look which i like. I love a hybrid but mine have followed a tried and trusted pattern and i want to deviate a bit. I thought using parts that i already have would save on costs but i should have known better !! This is not a cheap past time is it !!
Dusty
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Post by reggieperrin on Aug 5, 2018 18:03:54 GMT 1
Dusty, as Jon has said above, the tie bars are an isolation mount, meaning that the vibration and movement is isolated from the frame/engine in turn. There needs to be a piece of rubber between each rigid mount. A rubber washer is not enough as you won't be able to tighten them sufficiently without distorting the rubber and when loose, they won't have the desired effect. This is why the fitting bolts are M10 fine, so that a lot of torque (holding) can be applied in the right place.
On the original tie bars, the centre tube insert is isolated from the tie bar by a rubber bush, thus preventing any direct mechanical contact but allowing some limited and controlled movement under load. This is what needs to be replicated. If it becomes a ball ache, with the strength in that frame and if you're using exhausts with flexible header/manifold joint, you could just leave them off.
If you want to use them, you have to replicate the function of the originals. PM'd you my number, you can call me to talk it through if you want..
Reg
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Post by dusty350 on Aug 6, 2018 7:23:30 GMT 1
Hi Reg Thanks for that My other option is to get the original tie bars cut and rewelded so I can link them to the tabs on the frame. Or I may even just leave them off - not sure yet. It's something I will revisit probably as it's moving on at pace at the mo ! I did throw a really rough rolling chassis together late last night so I could check the angle of the side stand - which is good, and I now need to sort the rearset plates now I can see how the bike sits. Whenever you are in the area mate - kettle is always hot ! Cheers Dusty
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Post by jon on Aug 6, 2018 7:36:49 GMT 1
Dusty, I don’t think welding the original tie bars is that easy.
You’ll have to press out the rubber bush anyway in order they don’t get destroyed by the heat.
Jon
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Post by dusty350 on Aug 6, 2018 19:18:23 GMT 1
Hi Jon Yea, I know the heat could be an issue. The good thing is the tabs on the frame allow me to revisit this issue at a later date if needs be. I plan on using 4 anti vibration rubbers on the engine mounts instead of 2, and if I can sort something with the plate or bars then great, but I will be using aftermarket exhausts with spring collars so hopefully no issues there. I thought I would try and incorporate some sort of tie bar system whilst it was at the engineers getting everything else done, but it's not essential to use it. Dusty
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Post by Tobyjugs on Aug 6, 2018 20:05:13 GMT 1
There is another option using the parts you have. Your engineering firm should be able to do this for you. Accurately machine out the plate to -0.05mm the nominal diameter of the outside diameter of the torsional bush, then drop them into some liquid nitrogen. Once cold you should be able to place them by by hand into the hole in your plate at the right depth. No welding will be needed and the rubber will be ok unless you shock it when cold. Downside to this suggestion is the area of interference fit. Ie the thickness of your plate. This could also be remedied by making the plate thicker in this area before the holes are machined.
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Post by dusty350 on Aug 6, 2018 21:38:10 GMT 1
Hi mate Sounds involved !! It really isn't that important to me to be honest. The engineering place cut the plate out in no time at all on their plasma cutter, and the tabs didn't take long either so it doesn't owe me loads if I don't use it. Lots left to do and purchase for this build so I've moved on for the moment, but may revisit it at a later date if necessary. Thanks for the input though. It's good to know the possible solutions to the problem Dusty
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Post by donkeychomp on Aug 6, 2018 22:02:35 GMT 1
Saw it today. It's going to be stonking when it's done!
Alex
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Post by jon on Aug 6, 2018 22:08:13 GMT 1
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Post by dusty350 on Aug 7, 2018 6:58:33 GMT 1
That's a good link Thanks Jon Dusty
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Post by jon on Aug 7, 2018 7:22:06 GMT 1
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Post by Tobyjugs on Aug 7, 2018 8:01:56 GMT 1
Just saw the bracket again. Sorry Dusty my suggestion wouldn't work.
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Post by dusty350 on Aug 7, 2018 16:59:08 GMT 1
No worries mate, thanks for the input anyway. Cheers Jon for the link Dusty
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Post by dusty350 on Aug 8, 2018 22:13:22 GMT 1
Today, I mocked up the rolling chassis for it's first venture out of the shed !! 20180808_125924 by David Miller, on Flickr 20180808_125937 by David Miller, on Flickr The rear wheel is a spare VJ21 wheel - the new sprocket hub I bought is away being powdercoated so thought I would fit an old wheel just to get it rolling. Pleased with the side stand angle; 20180808_130019 by David Miller, on Flickr And I bought some headlight brackets, originally for a Triumph; 20180808_130028 by David Miller, on Flickr Which meant I could play around with the headlight options. My £10 Cyclops headlight looks great off the bike, just not too sure with it fitted ?? 20180808_130702 by David Miller, on Flickr 20180808_130852 by David Miller, on Flickr Then there was the small headlight option; 20180808_131911 by David Miller, on Flickr 20180808_131920 by David Miller, on Flickr Mmmmm… Then, good ol' Lc headlight; 20180808_133143 by David Miller, on Flickr 20180808_133209 by David Miller, on Flickr As much as I want this bike to be "different", I think the Lc headlight works best, although Cyclops isn't destined for Room 101 just yet !! Need to sort a swingarm next and a shock absorber. And a rear disc as the one I was sent doesn't fit. Nice to get it on it's wheels but still tons to do ! Dusty
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Post by donkeychomp on Aug 9, 2018 0:50:38 GMT 1
For me the side stand maketh the bike. Kidding aside the cyclops/Dalek thing is err, different as is that long but tiny one. The LC one is perfect! Great to see her own her own two feet though Dusty.
Alex
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Post by bazzer5115 on Aug 9, 2018 7:31:19 GMT 1
Think this style of bike needs a chrome headlight,loads on eBay👍
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Post by dereckerick on Aug 9, 2018 7:32:10 GMT 1
Really nice Dusty, i do like the lines. You can just tell, its destined to be a belter..
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Post by dusty350 on Aug 9, 2018 7:41:03 GMT 1
Thanks fellas. I agree Bazzer - a chrome headlight would look good I think. Plus maybe a little smaller than the Lc unit - the standard headlight looks big on the bike although once a tacho is fitted it may make a difference. I may look at relocating the ignition switch if I can find a suitable place for it. I think it would make the top yoke look better and give more room for the tacho.
Dusty
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Post by veg on Aug 9, 2018 7:49:51 GMT 1
Agree about the headlight LC style suits it the best. Alternatively could you just go for a daytime mot and not bother with any headlight ?
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Post by wangwang on Aug 9, 2018 8:23:31 GMT 1
Nice. I put an XJ600 diversion headlight on mine(all chrome), slightly larger too!
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Post by Tobyjugs on Aug 9, 2018 11:13:05 GMT 1
Is it possible to mount the Cyclops headlamp horizontal.
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Post by dusty350 on Aug 9, 2018 11:30:30 GMT 1
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Post by Tobyjugs on Aug 9, 2018 17:30:00 GMT 1
I have a soft spot for the ducktail. It does look nicely in proportion to the tank.
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