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Post by philmill on Feb 8, 2018 14:38:58 GMT 1
Hi All, anybody got any tricks for getting the flywheel off? I have the extractor its all looks good but no way will it move, Im worried about hitting the bolt on the extractor too hard in case it damage the thread on the crank. I've tried penetrating oils but no way is it moving. If I use the "windy gun" on the bolt is that likely to shock it enough to move??
Phil
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Post by Shytalk on Feb 8, 2018 14:49:45 GMT 1
When you say extractor, is it a proper screw in tool? If not get one first. Heating up the rotor area will help, you might need a few taps with a hammer 🔨 to assist, also if it’s really stubborn you might need to leave it under pressure overnight.
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Post by dusty350 on Feb 8, 2018 14:51:04 GMT 1
They can be really tight. Make sure you wind the puller in fully for starters. Muck can get in the fine thread on the rotor and stop the puller fitting all he way in. If that happens you risk stripping the threads out Once the tool is fully home, and you've done the penetrating oil for a good amount of time, then it will be a case of knocking on the end bolt with a hammer to shock the rotor off. It's amazing how they can hold on and when they do finally go, they go with a real "crack". Obviously start easy, and build up if it refuses to budge. Good luck, you'll get there in the end Dusty
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Post by philmill on Feb 8, 2018 15:02:53 GMT 1
Thanks guys, yes I have the proper extractor, ok I'll persist. Do you think the impact gun is worth a try? I just don't want to do any damage to the crank.
Phil
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Post by dusty350 on Feb 8, 2018 15:19:12 GMT 1
No harm in trying if you have one to hand. The rotor is a tight fit on the tapered end of the crank - a really tight interference fit with the woodruff key there to stop it slipping in use. I removed a rotor a couple of engine rebuilds ago and didn't like the amount I was hitting the tool with the hammer, but it did suddenly free itself with a proper "CRACK" which sounded alarming but caused no damage. Shytalk made a good point about leaving it overnight with the extractor bolt wound in as tight as you can get it - if you are in no hurry you could try that. I've never used heat as I didn't want to risk melting anything and I didn't know how hot you would need to get it. I think the rotor magnets are glued in, and didn't want to risk softening the glue. I'm sure others will add their tips Dusty
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Post by sbscnor on Feb 8, 2018 15:52:31 GMT 1
As said make sure the extractor is FULLY screwed home BEFORE you apply any pressure I, ended up using a 4lb hammer and persistence and it scarred the sh*&t out of me when it finally released itself from the taper.
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Post by jon on Feb 8, 2018 20:01:50 GMT 1
No harm in trying if you have one to hand. The rotor is a tight fit on the tapered end of the crank - a really tight interference fit with the woodruff key there to stop it slipping in use. I removed a rotor a couple of engine rebuilds ago and didn't like the amount I was hitting the tool with the hammer, but it did suddenly free itself with a proper "CRACK" which sounded alarming but caused no damage. Shytalk made a good point about leaving it overnight with the extractor bolt wound in as tight as you can get it - if you are in no hurry you could try that. I've never used heat as I didn't want to risk melting anything and I didn't know how hot you would need to get it. I think the rotor magnets are glued in, and didn't want to risk softening the glue. I'm sure others will add their tips Dusty I’m sorry to say Dusty, but the woodruff key has zero strength in stopping the flywheel twisting on the crank. It is purely down to the taper. The woodruff key is purely for positioning. A lot of machining tools use what’s known as a ‘morse taper’ to lock things together. This is a shallower angle then the RD crank, but the same concept. There is NO woodruff key here. I always grind my flywheels to fit the crank on any engine build to ensure maximum ‘grippage’. As said, use the right tool, clean threads to ensure maximum depth when screwing on. Tap the bolt lightly with a bit of heat, and if it doesn’t go then increase the tap strength and heat proportionally. Jon
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Post by dusty350 on Feb 8, 2018 20:33:28 GMT 1
I stand corrected !! Dusty
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Post by reedpete on Feb 8, 2018 20:52:14 GMT 1
Just check one thing first ...have you removed the washer from behind the nut ? If not no amount of effort on the puller will work.
Assuming you have ...I find best thing to do is tension it up , go make a cuppa, and start taping it repeatedly but gently. The repetitive small shock waves will eventually shift if whereas a large clonk is most probably just going to break something. Heat helps but only hairdryer heat, not blow torch otherwise you’ll risk magnet damage.
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Post by philmill on Feb 9, 2018 14:37:44 GMT 1
Well its been on tension for 24hrs now, the end of the bolt is looking decidedly secondhand... and the bolt is actually bending, it defo doesn't want to move. The only thing I haven't tried is to heat it as I didnt want to damage anything but I guess thats my next move. I did try the impact gun this morning, needless to say it didnt work.
Phil
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Post by stusco on Feb 9, 2018 16:16:51 GMT 1
.have you removed the washer from behind the nut ? If not no amount of effort on the puller will work.
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Post by philmill on Feb 9, 2018 16:42:14 GMT 1
Yes, both washers are off, I did nearly miss the flat washer behind the spring washer.
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Post by steeley on Feb 9, 2018 17:16:07 GMT 1
Get some decent pressure on the centre bolt . place a bit of wood on the bolt head and give it a whack with a hammer. Oh some one said they had some success with pouring boiling water over the rotor before the whack.
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Post by philmill on Feb 9, 2018 18:23:51 GMT 1
I'll try the boiling water, thanks for the tip.
Phil
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Post by 4l04ever on Feb 10, 2018 0:14:09 GMT 1
Boiling water may get it to release if done while the bolt is under tension in the puller.... :-)
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Post by philmill on Feb 14, 2018 16:08:41 GMT 1
Hi guys, so I'm reviving this, I gave up trying to get the flywheel off and took it to my local bike shop, he shoes me today and said he cannot get it off either, he said he's ruined his extractor and despite getting it "as hot as he dared" it will not move. So I just went and picked it up, he did use heat, so much that the magnets are melted and possibly the coils too, worse that that something feels tight when I turn the crank which i hope to god isn't a bent crank now.
So my questions are, can I spilt the cases with the flywheel and stator still on the crank? if I manage to get the three bolts holding the stator to crankcase with the cases come apart and let me then take crank to somebody to try and get the flywheel off, or if not I guess I'll have to try and cut the flywheel off with an angle grinder! anybody done that?? is it going to be difficult??
Thanks, Phil
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Post by philmill on Feb 14, 2018 17:58:45 GMT 1
Bump.
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Post by bare on Feb 14, 2018 18:36:57 GMT 1
Wouldn't worry about the crank too much.. IMO it Needs replacement. Surprising if it didn't Should be able to remove the crank and flywheel together. Don't think (can't fully remember tho) if there's any hidden issues under the flywheel that would stop you. Try ? not like there's a choice
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Post by steeley on Feb 14, 2018 18:41:57 GMT 1
Hi sounds like you have had a bit of a mare of it . yes you can split the motor with the rotor on if you can get the 3 bolts holding the back plate out . it sounds like the magnets are touching the windings now, that's what you can feel when you turn it.
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Post by Yogi on Feb 14, 2018 18:43:14 GMT 1
The stator is toast now so you might Get lucky with a three legged puller
If you can get the stator bolt out of the bottom you can probably then split them
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Post by yamark on Feb 14, 2018 19:59:23 GMT 1
I think Matt has a good point, try a 3 legged puller first. I've ground a flywheel off before, it's then guaranteed to come off, but it's easy to damage the crankcases. The difficulty is you have to cut the outer section to get to the inner taper, and the flange on the inner section takes a bit of cutting. Much safer with the cases separated. As said, once the 3 stator bolts are removed, the cases can be split. The flywheel is likely to be rusted and "fused" on the crank taper.
Good luck Phil! It's quite rare for the flywheel to be such a git to remove.
HTH Mark
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Post by philmill on Feb 14, 2018 21:07:07 GMT 1
Thanks guys, I'll try a 3 legged puller tomorrow otherwise its going to be out with the angle grinder. And I thought these projects were supposed to be fun....
Phil
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Post by JonW on Feb 15, 2018 8:11:49 GMT 1
try a big impact gun as well, i used a 1000lb/ft one at my mates workshop, do not hold it with a spanner, just hold it on and wait a bit.... if it goes it will go very fast with a loud crack, ive had one i had to do this way, another I had to cut the flywheel off
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Post by Shytalk on Feb 15, 2018 8:32:37 GMT 1
Get the grinder on it, this could get expensive but you’re not left with too many options now unfortunately, good luck and keep us updated 🔨👍
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Post by JonW on Feb 15, 2018 10:02:04 GMT 1
Grinding is not much fun with these, Ive done it and its a thick bit of steel in the flywheel :/
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Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2018 14:07:04 GMT 1
I know this is probably a bit too late for, however here goes
Do you have access to a big freezer?, if so drop the cases in there over night, with the removal tool tightened well home and the extraction bolt wound up as tight as it will go
Take the cases out the next day and if you have a freezing WD type spray empty the can onto the end of the crank to assist the freezing, using the can on its own won’t acheive anything as there is too much mass that will act as a heat sink, then pour boiling water over the nose of the crank, or use one of those butane brazing torches if you have one
With any luck the rapid temperature change may just crack the fusing on the taper
Or if you are real lucky the flywheel may have come off over night
HTH
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Post by philmill on Feb 15, 2018 18:13:30 GMT 1
I like the freezer idea, if only I had one. Currently I've got it sat with a big three legged puller on it, tightened using a 3 ft extension bar!! maybe it'll crack under pressure, the small normal extractor im sure doesn't put as much pressure on it.
Phil
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Post by philmill on Feb 16, 2018 17:51:40 GMT 1
Hi guys, well its off , not as difficult as I thought it might have been, once I figured how to set about it. funny thing is the taper looks fine, no real reason why it was so tight! I'm hoping the stator might still be usable, it looks like its been warm but not melted so I might be lucky, I guess if I take the readings on it I'll know. As a matter of curiosity, am I right in thinking F2's have different stator/ign that gives it few few more hp? can I fit a later one if I need to change? fgX%ugeeSr6NHu29ZoyD8g by Philip Millard, on Flickr 3sf17FEPQC2Lp0D1RIguVw by Philip Millard, on Flickr ZfxNEcPqT4a1IdFyycEpEA by Philip Millard, on Flickr JbtGTTtrTQyfANdHgVHXRw by Philip Millard, on Flickr
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Post by dusty350 on Feb 16, 2018 18:28:22 GMT 1
Wow, looks like you've had a real battle with that Are you splitting the bottom end anyway ? Worth getting your crank checked for peace of mind. Worst part I've ever had was a clutch basket nut. A 2ft scaffold pole on the end of my ratchet, and 16 stone of me hanging off the other end finally loosened it, but not before destroying my clutch tool and the basket itself Hopefully yours will be easier Dusty
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Post by philmill on Feb 16, 2018 18:39:57 GMT 1
Hi Dusty, yes bottom end now stripped, I am going to send the crank away, it seems fine but best be sure, I'll get new mains put on as a matter of course. Need to sort out gearbox next one selector is very bad, so I maybe looking for new bits there too. It needs to be right though, so at least it keeps me busy.
Phil
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