Right, decided which loom to use now. Electrics are my least favourite part of a rebuild, although it should be fairly easy this time !! I've got 2 Lc looms. The bottom loom in the pic is an aftermarket one that came with the blue hybrid. Everything worked on the bike so I know it's good from that respect, and it's obviously newer. There is a broken wire going to the indicator relay so will need to fix that but otherwise it seems fine. I did consider using the gen Yam loom at the top of the pic. That came on the carbon bike but is untested, but it looks really good. If I used this one I would need to repair the 4 pin plug that goes to the genny plug, plus the genny plug has been altered to fit the pattern loom so I would have to change both plugs, plus a 3 pin plug on the CDI has been altered for the pattern loom. Thankfully the pattern loom has virtually all Yam connectors so everything else will plug straight in. There are a few wires on the pattern loom that look slightly thinner than standard Yam, but they aren't major component wires so I'm sure it will be fine. Previous owner fitted the loom and rode the bike often so should be good. Just need to check the routing, but I'm pretty sure the loom comes out of the headlight on the right of the headstock, then under the tank and crosses to the left side.
Last Edit: Dec 28, 2017 23:16:00 GMT 1 by dusty350
Hi I can resurrect this thread now as the engine build part is finished and the engine now fitted. The tacho cable is now fitted after oiling, and I have just oiled the clutch and speedo cables too, so they are ready to fit. The next job is to sort the chain run. This bike was bought with sprockets but no chain, so I'm starting from scratch regards offset fronts. I have about 3 sprockets of varying offset, so need to run a straight edge from the back sprocket to measure what I need. Plus I have both an Lc and Ypvs sprocket spacer which differ in width so may help fine tune the run. I also bought a plastic chopping board today, to have a go at making a chain slider for the top of the swingarm;
I will make a cardboard template first to get the shape right, and then cut it from the board. Not sure how I'm gonna fix it yet - don't really want to have to remove the arm and start drilling into it. I'm sure someone mentioned an industrial glue in the past ? Will have to research that a bit more
Last Edit: Dec 28, 2017 23:16:23 GMT 1 by dusty350
Hi Today I sorted out the chain run. As said, this hadn't been done on the bike when I bought it. I had various options to get the sprockets to line up. I clamped a straight piece of ally from the rear sprocket up to the front to see how far out I was. I had a couple of different offset sprockets, as well as a clutch washer that fits the output shaft perfectly, plus a Ypvs sprocket spacer as well as the Lc version;
After trying different combinations, I settled on the Lc spacer, then the clutch washer, and then the largest offset sprocket, which is a 9mm. It runs the chain quite close to the frame tube - maybe a couple of mm clearance;
I can just get the lock washer on the splines of the shaft , which is good. Next thing was the chain slider. I bought the chopping board which is a hard nylon, much like the Yamaha slider you get on the Ypvs. I made a couple of cardboard templates before I settled on a shape. Due to the curve of the swingarm I needed to bend the end of the slider, so immersing it in boiling water made it pliable enough to bend to shape;
Only issue is I think it may be a bit too thick, it's approx. 9mm. The arm definitely needs a slider, so I have ordered a 3mm thick piece of nylon from ebay and will cut the same shape from that when it arrives, and see how it looks.
Last Edit: Dec 28, 2017 23:17:11 GMT 1 by dusty350
Hi Jon Yea, it's close for sure. I do have the option of moving the sprocket inboard a couple of mm if needs be - there is more clearance on the tyre side. I had to shorten the chain to get the link in which I have now done, so can wheel the bike around now to check alignment more accurately. I forgot I had that chain which was a new one I bought for a Ypvs project some time back, and was longer than standard for that bike, so I removed some links and it fits this bike - saving me a few quid !! The chain slipper really needs to be a bit slimmer I think as the chain is lifted quite a bit to travel over it - probably wearing the slipper much more quickly. I will try a 3mm version, but a 5mm may be the best compromise. I really cant believe the Metmachex arms come without a slipper as standard - the chain contacts the top of the arm over a good few inches of travel - would certainly remove a fair amount of ally if you didn.t fit one
Dusty this is what Nigel did for mine, it 5mm you can see what happens without on the 2nd pic, it's 5 mm I have some spare if you want some just tell me the size width and length will pop it in the post.
Hi That's a kind offer Veg, thanks mate I will see how I get on with the 3mm nylon first, which should arrive tomorrow or Wednesday. What Nigel has done is all I need on mine really, but I enjoyed playing around with different templates ! I made it longer than it needs to be in case I use a glue to fix it in place - more surface area for a better bond. Ideally it should be fixed like yours, and really it should have been done with the arm out of the frame but the chain run was an unknown at that point so I couldn't accurately work out the shape needed. Sounds mad but I was keen to have it looking nice ! Only a chain sliderI know, but I wanted it to look bespoke, and certainly not like the one that was fitted to my other Metmachex arm !! That monstrosity has left me damaged !!
Hi Got the bike out today and onto a paddock stand to check the chain alignment more accurately - difficult to do in my cramped garage. When I spin the wheel the chain doesn't run as smoothly as I would like. It's not rubbing on anything - it's not even in contact with the swingarm if I adjust it to be fairly tight. I have a 9mm offset sprocket fitted with a 2mm thick washer behind that, so 11mm offset. It looks like it's running evenly on the sprocket teeth too. Will have to play around with this a bit more - my blue hybrid's rear wheel spins so quietly you would think there was no chain fitted ! If I can't improve it I will have to consider getting some metal taken off the sprocket carrier. This is one of the trials you face when you buy someone else's unfinished project I suppose ! Whilst it was on the drive, I put the side panels and seat on for an overall look - the first time I've done it - pretty happy with the look;
Last Edit: Dec 28, 2017 23:17:56 GMT 1 by dusty350
Hi Yea, the Nitron is adjustable for length. The set up on this bike is exactly the same as my blue hybrid regards shock length and spindle position. The chain doesn't touch the swingarm with it adjusted correctly - with the 3mm slider added the chain just touches the top of the slider, so that isn't my issue I think. I use a straight edge clamped to the outside face of the rear sprocket that runs up to the front sprocket. I used the biggest offset I had which was a 9mm and that wasn't enough, so I added the 2mm washer behind the sprocket, giving me 11mm. If I pack it out any more the lock tab washer will not engage on the shaft splines, plus if I bought an even bigger offset then the chain would be really close to the frame. Will mess about with it a bit more today but I think the sprocket carrier may need some skimming. The only difference on my blue bike is that I had a wheel spacer made locally as the ones that Metmachex supplied were nowhere near correct, and I had trouble getting them to sort it. I do wonder if the spacers that came with this set up are wrong too ? Wheel looks central in the arm though. It's not miles out but it's gotta be right. As I said, the blue bike spins the rear wheel almost silently - the run is dead straight.
Just a thought - can you get an offset rear sprocket ? So it's dished towards the wheel ? That would keep the carrier standard and not require machining it.
The other thing that just occurred to me is that when I stripped the bike to check it all over, I found the inner spacer in the back wheel missing - the one that fits inside the hub bearing and spaces it away from the wheel bearing. Leaving this out enables the hub to push further in to the wheel than it would if the spacer was fitted. I wonder if this was left out deliberately to try and sort chain run - even though the bike came without a chain. The effect would be the same as machining the carrier. Obviously I wont be leaving that spacer out, but is it acceptable to shorten that spacer rather than machine the sprocket mating surface ?
Got the bike out of the garage today for some more accurate measuring of chain run. Set up at mo is, front - Lc sprocket spacer, 3mm washer and 9mm offset sprocket. I can just get the tab washer to sit on the splines so that's good. If I use the pv spacer I cant fit the washer. The rear is standard Rgv set up. With a straight edge clamped to the rear sprocket, it suggests that I need a further offset of 10mm !! No way can that happen without the chain sawing its way through the frame tubes. So, what are the options ? There is still some clearance between chain and frame tubes. If I bought an offset sprocket to get the maximum at the front, I reckon 13mm, maybe 14mm would be my limit. An offset rear - actually an "inset" sprocket looks unlikely coz no one seems to do them, although I have a number for a guy who makes sprockets , but can't get him on the phone at the mo. The sprocket carrier has minimal meat on it - you may get away with milling a mm or 2 off it's face but probably no more to be safe. Then there is that inner spacer between carrier and wheel bearing. If I had that machined down the hub would theoretically move inwards, but that would then mean a new spacer between wheel and swingarm, or at least some sort of shim. I don't want to move the whole wheel sideways as it would then not be central in the arm, plus would upset the spacers on both sides and effect the caliper carrier - which needs to be able to slide on the steel peg in the arm. I also measured the steel sprocket on the blue bike, against the alloy Renthal sprocket on this bike and there is a fraction under a mm difference - steel sprocket being slimmer. I've got a third hybrid in the garage with an Rgv "P" arm in it. I whipped the casing off and that runs with a standard sprocket - no offset at all !! So I maybe have to gain or los a mm or 2 here and there to get closer, but I don't think I will find 10 mm.
Hi Steve I think it is awesome as it is, but being a special, they are never finished, and liable to change
I had an interesting conversion with John Hemming this afternoon. He makes bespoke sprockets in steel, and I was given his number by a sprocket supplier who recommended him. Basically he can make an "inset" rear sprocket to whatever spec I need. I explained my issue and he had a couple of suggestions, but ultimately, from a hassle and cost viewpoint, an inset sprocket is looking favourite at the mo. He has the drawings for all the different types of sprockets, so he can make an Rgv rear that bolts to the hub as standard, but the teeth are set back towards the wheel by whatever amount I need. I think I could gain 5 or 6mm this way, and should allow for a slightly larger offset at the front. He said a run out of 1 or 2mm over the length of the chain was acceptable. The chain would run closer to the tyre but whatever I do will be a compromise. I just cant live with it being 10mm out ! Cost of a one off rear sprocket is about £85.00, which probably isn't far off what it would cost to get other parts machined. Plus the Rgv hub really doesn't look that meaty. I need to do some more careful measuring, and send John some pics before I can move on with it.
Hi all Spudmab - good call. I have checked engine and swingarm - the engine has the 2 washers fitted diagonally opposite each other as they should be, and the swingarm is brand new from Metmachex. I checked it out when I stripped the bike for cleaning/checking over, and it seemed correct. I have exactly the same arm on the blue hybrid, although that has a pv engine, but apart from the sprocket spacer, that shouldn't be any different. The Tyga caliper mount is the same dims as a standard Rgv, so it's not that, and the wheel spacers seem ok. Frame shows no sign of damage, or being out of line. Everything fits as it should and side panels all line up ok. Wheel looks central in the arm too, but I absolutely agree, a 22mm offset is ridiculous ! Hi Marsbar - I will check B&C. I did ring Talon, but they are doing a stock take so no one was available to help ! Hi Yogi, thanks for the offer mate I clamp a straight length of ally to the rear sprocket which gives a fairly accurate indication. I measure from the face of the sprocket to the ally and get 10mm difference. If I roll the bike forward slowly, and watch the chain links engaging with the rear sprocket teeth, every few links one will "click" onto the tooth as though it's not quite lined up. I've got to mess around with it some more before I order anything, plus I don't want to have anything machined if I can help it.
hate to suggest this, but the frame could be bent, have you checked the alignment of the front and rear wheels to each other, if they aren't aligned then the swinging arm could be out, or the frame mountings are bent, which can easily push it way out
Have seen stock LC's chains not aligning and one bike the engine mountings where out of alignment by 10mm, that was a bar-steward to fix, but once sorted the wheel aligmment and chain run was perfect
Last Edit: Mar 31, 2017 18:39:30 GMT 1 by muttsnuts