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Post by bryan on Sept 21, 2014 20:05:14 GMT 1
Had a sucking base gasket on right barrel after only 5,000 miles over 4 years.
Ordered 2 base gaskets (possibly going to change both while head was off) at a barging £23 EACH and a head gasket. Got it done yesterday and re torqued and put coolant in today and run it, not a happy bunny as I could still hear sucking. Blooming left one gone too, so had to strip head and left barrel off again. I've always just used grease on base gaskets, I don't know if this is the reason they have gone, not wanting to use Wellseal as it's a pain cleaning it off but want people's views on it.
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Post by billyboy on Sept 21, 2014 20:45:11 GMT 1
are the underside of the barrels flat ? i usually put 3 very small centre punch dot marks in a row in the thickest part where they seat on the barrel(if that makes sense ?)to hopefully stop any of the sucking in, but if both mating faces are nice and flat it shouldn't really happen tbh
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Post by bryan on Sept 21, 2014 21:12:40 GMT 1
as far as I know they are, it was an origonal unstripped engine when I got it with origonal bores and pistons, so can only asume it was the first time it came appart.
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Post by mikee on Sept 21, 2014 21:24:39 GMT 1
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Post by stusco on Sept 21, 2014 21:30:03 GMT 1
are the underside of the barrels flat ? i usually put 3 very small centre punch dot marks in a row in the thickest part where they seat on the barrel(if that makes sense ?)to hopefully stop any of the sucking in, but if both mating faces are nice and flat it shouldn't really happen tbh You've lost me how does three centre pop marks stop the sucking in not trying to be smart I just don't see how? |
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Post by JonW on Sept 21, 2014 23:30:00 GMT 1
They will help hold the gasket in place.
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Post by Tone on Sept 22, 2014 6:15:09 GMT 1
Are you saying the base gaskets were £23.00 each? The site I looked at lists them as just over £2.00 each?
Were they Genuine as Some of the pattern ones are too big and need trimimg where they meet in the middle or else one can sit on top of the other one.
Tone
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Post by steven on Sept 22, 2014 8:41:00 GMT 1
are the underside of the barrels flat ? i usually put 3 very small centre punch dot marks in a row in the thickest part where they seat on the barrel(if that makes sense ?)to hopefully stop any of the sucking in, but if both mating faces are nice and flat it shouldn't really happen tbh You've lost me how does three centre pop marks stop the sucking in not trying to be smart I just don't see how? If you put a centre punch mark or three on the faces it will effectefly "raise" the height slightly or create a "high spot" only slightly, but the line of thinking will be the slight high spot will catch on the gasket and hopefuly hold it in place incase it wants to be sucked in. I do it often at work, usualy on worn shafts or housings etc that have bearings in/on them. If you have a shaft that is worn and the bearing is a sliding fit, where it should be an interferance fit, if you put a load of centre punch marks on the shaft, it will effectefly slightly increse the O/D of the shaft, so your bearing wont be a ratteling fit anymore and will be nice and tight. Its quite a rough/crude way of doing things, but can get something running again if you dont have the correct spares at the time. Id never do it on anything of my own, but its ok to get you out a hole at work sometimes. Another option with a shaft is to put it in the lathe and knurl it using a knurling tool, knurling a shaft will slightly increase the O/D too and make a bearing a tighter fit on it. Its not realy precision engineering, but sometimes needs must, I have not realy explained it very well after a 10 hour nightshift,.....YUKKK!... but hopefuly you catch my drift and understand what Im waffeling about. steven. |
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Post by bryan on Sept 22, 2014 9:01:03 GMT 1
They are genuine Yamaha gaskets, 2 base, 1 headgasket and a metalised exhaust flange gasket cot me £90. 4 years ago when I built it base gaskets were £5 and head gasket was about £25.
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Post by bryan on Sept 22, 2014 10:36:49 GMT 1
just been on to Fowlers, £23 each from them too. When I built the engine in 2009 base gaskets were £2.33 each and head gasket was £21.
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Post by stusco on Sept 22, 2014 13:39:25 GMT 1
You've lost me how does three centre pop marks stop the sucking in not trying to be smart I just don't see how? If you put a centre punch mark or three on the faces it will effectefly "raise" the height slightly or create a "high spot" only slightly, but the line of thinking will be the slight high spot will catch on the gasket and hopefuly hold it in place incase it wants to be sucked in. I do it often at work, usualy on worn shafts or housings etc that have bearings in/on them. If you have a shaft that is worn and the bearing is a sliding fit, where it should be an interferance fit, if you put a load of centre punch marks on the shaft, it will effectefly slightly increse the O/D of the shaft, so your bearing wont be a ratteling fit anymore and will be nice and tight. Its quite a rough/crude way of doing things, but can get something running again if you dont have the correct spares at the time. Id never do it on anything of my own, but its ok to get you out a hole at work sometimes. Another option with a shaft is to put it in the lathe and knurl it using a knurling tool, knurling a shaft will slightly increase the O/D too and make a bearing a tighter fit on it. Its not realy precision engineering, but sometimes needs must, I have not realy explained it very well after a 10 hour nightshift,.....YUKKK!... but hopefuly you catch my drift and understand what Im waffeling about. steven. I thought some of my practices were dodgy. But needs must sometimes ,you gotta get the thing working |
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Post by JonW on Sept 22, 2014 13:39:38 GMT 1
$7.59 in the USA...
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Post by jackjabba on Sept 22, 2014 19:52:12 GMT 1
Doesn't Wellseal come off with Meths?
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Post by bryan on Sept 22, 2014 19:53:10 GMT 1
Norbo stock them? Going to get another set if I can find them cheaper, then I'll swap heads to Glyns O ringed head so no more head gaskets!
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Post by billyboy on Sept 22, 2014 21:04:13 GMT 1
In what way is it dodgy ? not trying to be smart or anything ,but how does putting 3 small centre punch marks on the underside of the barrel seem dodgy ? i'm not talking about leathering the shit out of it with a sledgehammer ,just 3 SMALL stratigically placed dots raises the surface very slightly and forms a recess that the surface of the gasket wiil sink into and it works ! valve barrels that have been on and off many times definitely get warped because of how they are fixed to the crankcase in the 4 corners and as thin as the castings are around the transfers where the gasket mates it's enivitable over time its an area thats going to cause problems ,bet there is not many valve barrels around that have not been re-machined on the bottom face that are dead flat
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Post by greasemeup on Sept 23, 2014 19:45:50 GMT 1
In what way is it dodgy ? not trying to be smart or anything ,but how does putting 3 small centre punch marks on the underside of the barrel seem dodgy ? i'm not talking about leathering the shit out of it with a sledgehammer ,just 3 SMALL stratigically placed dots raises the surface very slightly and forms a recess that the surface of the gasket wiil sink into and it works ! valve barrels that have been on and off many times definitely get warped because of how they are fixed to the crankcase in the 4 corners and as thin as the castings are around the transfers where the gasket mates it's enivitable over time its an area thats going to cause problems ,bet there is not many valve barrels around that have not been re-machined on the bottom face that are dead flat Makes sense to me, a pop mark looks like a crater in the moon from a meteorite impact, raises the surface around the impact point, compressed and hardened, a bit like a locating dowel. Clever CNut  |
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Post by steeley on Sept 23, 2014 20:09:23 GMT 1
get some gasket paper the right thickness and make your own.why are gaskets getting this expensive.i have used pattern gaskets for years on all types of engines and have had no real problems.
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Post by bare on Sept 23, 2014 20:17:46 GMT 1
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Post by bryan on Sept 23, 2014 20:55:18 GMT 1
When I ordered them I thought they would only have gone up a bit from the £2.33 I payed, but increased by £21 was a pisstake but I was liable to pay as I asked them to order them. I won't be ordering any again, and will use patten ones next time.
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Post by looey on Sept 23, 2014 21:12:00 GMT 1
I always use pattern base gaskets (just make sure they're not overlapping) and never had a problem. And Threebond comes off very easily with brake cleaner |
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Post by stusco on Sept 23, 2014 21:14:15 GMT 1
In what way is it dodgy ? not trying to be smart or anything ,but how does putting 3 small centre punch marks on the underside of the barrel seem dodgy ? i'm not talking about leathering the shit out of it with a sledgehammer ,just 3 SMALL stratigically placed dots raises the surface very slightly and forms a recess that the surface of the gasket wiil sink into and it works ! valve barrels that have been on and off many times definitely get warped because of how they are fixed to the crankcase in the 4 corners and as thin as the castings are around the transfers where the gasket mates it's enivitable over time its an area thats going to cause problems ,bet there is not many valve barrels around that have not been re-machined on the bottom face that are dead flat I'm talking about knurling a shaft to make a bearing fit not the pop marks,but I would use gasket sealant rather than pop marks as you can't come back from that unless your good with a file |
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Post by steven on Sept 23, 2014 23:04:31 GMT 1
Hi,
Yes, knurling a shaft or many other scimilar "dodgy" practices happen on a regular basis during breakdown maintenance, but it buys you enough time to get something running again to continue production and minumise downtime. This time can then be used to source or manufacture new parts which can then be used to effect a more permanant and proper repair.
steven.
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Post by stusco on Sept 24, 2014 14:00:37 GMT 1
I'm not allowed to use my dodgy ways anymore as I work with gas now
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Post by stusco on Sept 24, 2014 14:12:37 GMT 1
You can get gasket sheet from amazon for about £4 delivered for 250x250mm
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Post by steeley on Sept 24, 2014 17:37:58 GMT 1
making gaskets is also very relaxing.
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Post by tobster on Sept 24, 2014 18:19:57 GMT 1
I always use something like blue hylomar on my base gaskets as I really dont want them to leak. I also reuse them until I tear them taking the pots off. IF they have leaked before without the use of a sealant I wouldnt even think of installing them without a thin smear. I only use grease on gaskets that are not under real pressure e.g. clutch & alternator covers.Grease on base gaskets is crazy and asking for (expensive) trouble
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Post by powellm976 on Oct 5, 2014 13:15:12 GMT 1
This talk of making gaskets, how do you make them the right shape/size? Copy from a proper one?
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Post by steeley on Oct 5, 2014 13:35:03 GMT 1
yes trace round a new one. cut the inside out with a sharp knife Stanley/craft knife.you need a hole punch to cut the holes .like I said relaxing making gaskets.
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Post by stusco on Oct 5, 2014 14:09:40 GMT 1
Don't chap it off the barrel with a toffee hammer
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Post by bryan on Apr 5, 2015 0:07:06 GMT 1
Been a while but here are the pics of the failed base gaskets. Right barrel  Left hand one.  |
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