Not Too Shabby.............Latest development work

[muttsnuts]

yeah I know I've not been on for a while, been mega busy and also had to take some time off (Wife's orders)

Anyway, in amongst all the madness, I have been slowly upgrading/developing one of my customers engines, and had chance to run/test it on Saturday just gone, it was somewhat satisifying to see nearly 6 months of head scratching/machining and numerous calculations to see the engine beginning to show its potential.........still lots to do and more mods to do, but its certainly heading in the right direction, not bad for an LC !

[steve63]

Aug 1, 2022 16:31:39 GMT 1 muttsnuts said:

yeah I know I've not been on for a while, been mega busy and also had to take some time off (Wife's orders)

Anyway, in amongst all the madness, I have been slowly upgrading/developing one of my customers engines, and had chance to run/test it on Saturday just gone, it was somewhat satisifying to see nearly 6 months of head scratching/machining and numerous calculations to see the engine beginning to show its potential.........still lots to do and more mods to do, but its certainly heading in the right direction, not bad for an LC !

Hi Dave. Worth waiting for I would say 😃.

I always thought an 80hp LC, something like a 1984 spec F2 LC, would be brilliant on the road but this just blows my mind.

Is the story behind it available to read up on somewhere? Have I just not spotted it? It would make interesting reading.

[mt]

I saw the video on the Butchered Classics facebook group. Very impressive and sounds amazing 

[muttsnuts]

Hi Steve, not really, its been 5+yrs of development on and off, lots of issues to fix along the way, as you can imagine, releasing that sort of detail/data wouldn't really work to my benefit, its been a hard slog, we are targetting 125+, which is more than possible now that we have broken the 120bhp barrier, we may even aim for 130+, but a couple of the main design points need to be maintained, the first being running no more than 10,500 RPM ideally (although crank is designed to run 12,000 rpm), the other is that it runs on super unleaded, it is a road bike and is ridden on the road using normal pump fuel, no additives and even runs on oil pump !

The next set of mods will be interesting, of course alot of the development will filter down into more sensible mods that can be done to the less mad engines, but its all time of course !

[Tobyjugs]

If i understand this correctly have you won the "Most Powerful RD" Crown from the Southerners?

[shaunthe2nd]

Omg that's mad Dave. Who needs a modern bike now with that power available on an Lc. Great work and hope you enjoyed the enforced holiday.

[steve63]

Aug 1, 2022 17:00:24 GMT 1 muttsnuts said:

Hi Steve, not really, its been 5+yrs of development on and off, lots of issues to fix along the way, as you can imagine, releasing that sort of detail/data wouldn't really work to my benefit, its been a hard slog, we are targetting 125+, which is more than possible now that we have broken the 120bhp barrier, we may even aim for 130+, but a couple of the main design points need to be maintained, the first being running no more than 10,500 RPM ideally (although crank is designed to run 12,000 rpm), the other is that it runs on super unleaded, it is a road bike and is ridden on the road using normal pump fuel, no additives and even runs on oil pump !

The next set of mods will be interesting, of course alot of the development will filter down into more sensible mods that can be done to the less mad engines, but its all time of course !

Understood clearly Dave. Best of luck with your 130 but 120 is still amazing. Is it a development of that 99hp engine you had in the Aprillia?

[muttsnuts]

Aug 1, 2022 17:12:51 GMT 1 Tobyjugs said:

If i understand this correctly have you won the "Most Powerful RD" Crown from the Southerners?

you might just be right and the bar is going to be moved up a notch or two yet, that's only the first phase of mods - and its a non PV motor ! and most crucially, still running super unleaded, not C16 or formula 105 etc, like theirs are

[muttsnuts]

Aug 1, 2022 17:18:18 GMT 1 steve63 said:

Aug 1, 2022 17:00:24 GMT 1 muttsnuts said:

Hi Steve, not really, its been 5+yrs of development on and off, lots of issues to fix along the way, as you can imagine, releasing that sort of detail/data wouldn't really work to my benefit, its been a hard slog, we are targetting 125+, which is more than possible now that we have broken the 120bhp barrier, we may even aim for 130+, but a couple of the main design points need to be maintained, the first being running no more than 10,500 RPM ideally (although crank is designed to run 12,000 rpm), the other is that it runs on super unleaded, it is a road bike and is ridden on the road using normal pump fuel, no additives and even runs on oil pump !

The next set of mods will be interesting, of course alot of the development will filter down into more sensible mods that can be done to the less mad engines, but its all time of course !

Understood clearly Dave. Best of luck with your 130 but 120 is still amazing. Is it a development of that 99hp engine you had in the Aprillia?

yeah its a progression on from that, its more CC's, but the principle is the same, next is the 500cc twin, it will get all of the latest mods/upgrades and then tested.... watch this space!

[Tobyjugs]

Power valves are for sissy's.

The delivery looks mad almost 60 HP in 2000 rpm. I would imagine as well as all the hard work to produce the engine was there just as much work put into training the owner to overcome fear? or did he just get lobotomised? 

I hate to say it but power valves for these sort of engines is probably the way forward if you want to stay seated on them.

[muttsnuts]

Aug 1, 2022 17:34:00 GMT 1 Tobyjugs said:

Power valves are for sissy's.

The delivery looks mad almost 60 HP in 2000 rpm. I would imagine as well as all the hard work to produce the engine was there just as much work put into training the owner to overcome fear? or did he just get lobotomised? 

I hate to say it but power valves for these sort of engines is probably the way forward if you want to stay seated on them.

LOL - the owner is just as bonkers as the bike , but he can ride it very well, so it helps, I am just designing its new pipes now (running old pipes currently) which should see some more power and sooner, my target is to get it back below 10,000rpm and bring some of the bottom end back, although I only lost 13bhp at 6k rpm from the previous spec, but that was topping out at 111bhp at 9400 rpm, would be nice to get the 120+ by 9500(ish) so a fair amount of work to do to get that, but we will see what I can do.............

[LC_BOTT]

That's quite amazing, when I looked at the curve, I thought you'd put the wrong pic up, surely not an LC, then read the following comments, Hats off to you (and the customer)

[firmstools]

Braded brake lines might be a good idea then?

Brings to mind an old cartoon of one of the Joe Bar team doing about 200mph on an LC screaming as he went down the motorway!

[lcmarky]

Wow. Impressive and interesting so much can be had from this motor.

[tony2stroke]

Aug 1, 2022 16:31:39 GMT 1 muttsnuts said:

yeah I know I've not been on for a while, been mega busy and also had to take some time off (Wife's orders)

Anyway, in amongst all the madness, I have been slowly upgrading/developing one of my customers engines, and had chance to run/test it on Saturday just gone, it was somewhat satisifying to see nearly 6 months of head scratching/machining and numerous calculations to see the engine beginning to show its potential.........still lots to do and more mods to do, but its certainly heading in the right direction, not bad for an LC !

I doth my cap, and raise my forelock to you, mightily impressive   I think you'd have a continuous hard on riding that, I would. 

[veg]

Aug 1, 2022 17:34:00 GMT 1 Tobyjugs said:

Power valves are for sissy's.

Fixed it for you Tony

A non pv riding 34 mm carbed Lc owner.
Who has owned pv’s and pv engined hybrids 😘

Hugely hugely impressive Dave you sir are a two stroke god amongst us mere mortals 😁

[dusty350]

I saw the vid on Facebook too. Absolutely awesome Dave - great work

[donkeychomp]

Dave that is seriously impressive work indeed!

Alex

[bare]

Wow lotsa work in there... certainly an achievement to get an old 2 stroker to that level.
Hopefully reliably :-)

As a real life reality check :-) HP is a bit less than my box stock 600rr manages, albeit at 13,500 rpm
But.. it's power curve is virtually a straight 45 Degree line.
Also idles in urban summer traffic with zero issues. And the chassis /handling is 100% equal to the power .

Love the old school 'stuff'... but beyond it's Oddity value ?

[muttsnuts]

Aug 2, 2022 16:23:53 GMT 1 bare said:

Wow lotsa work in there... certainly an achievement to get an old 2 stroker to that level.
Hopefully reliably :-)

As a real life reality check :-) HP is a bit less than my box stock 600rr manages, albeit at 13,500 rpm
But.. it's power curve is virtually a straight 45 Degree line.
Also idles in urban summer traffic with zero issues. And the chassis/handling is 100% equal to the power .

Love the old school 'stuff'... but beyond it's Oddity value ?

interestingly Bare, this bike is used on the road on a regular basis, has a larger capacity rad, and other cooling mods and runs between 50 to 55c in traffic, on the go it runs around 45 to 50c, when pushed hard it can hit 60c, but never anymore

Clearly its each to their own, and of course handling isn't on a par with anything modern, but having something unique like this, has a certain value to the right person, personally I think its a mint bike and especially since it is used and ridden, not just a show/dyno pony.

Reliability wise, the previous incarnation engine did just over 1000 miles before it was removed to do these updates/mods, barring a small oil weep, it was never an issue, the more miles it does, the more data I gain, which in turns helps me fix any other issues that may occur

Its not for everybody of course, but for me and the owner, its a cool project to keep developing........

[beardy]

Aug 2, 2022 16:23:53 GMT 1 bare said:

Wow lotsa work in there... certainly an achievement to get an old 2 stroker to that level.
Hopefully reliably :-)

As a real life reality check :-) HP is a bit less than my box stock 600rr manages, albeit at 13,500 rpm
But.. it's power curve is virtually a straight 45 Degree line.
Also idles in urban summer traffic with zero issues. And the chassis /handling is 100% equal to the power .

Love the old school 'stuff'... but beyond it's Oddity value ?

45 degree power curve. I’ll stick with my 40bhp hockey stick curve 👍🏻

[sidney81]

It looked megga on the FB vid 😎

[rigga]

Impressive just doesn't quite cut it.

Wonder in 40 years time ,if any modern bike will have this kind of development still ongoing..... I doubt it.

[merse2]

I had to double check that this wasn't firts posted on Apr 1st. That is seriously impressive Dave 👏

[jon]

Not in any way dismissing the achievement (as it is quite some), but can a bike frame actually handle that sort of power and delivery ridden on the road? I’m not sure I’d have the bottle?

I can understand the big bore banshee stuff having more weight and in some cases extended wheelbase or even wheely bars.

This is one case where an RGV arm in an LC would be of benefit being longer.

Jon

[muttsnuts]

Aug 3, 2022 13:31:55 GMT 1 jon said:

Not in any way dismissing the achievement (as it is quite some), but can a bike frame actually handle that sort of power and delivery ridden on the road? I’m not sure I’d have the bottle?

I can understand the big bore banshee stuff having more weight and in some cases extended wheelbase or even wheely bars.

This is one case where an RGV arm in an LC would be of benefit being longer.

Jon

LOL - your not wrong Jon, the frame has been braced (all over the place), it runs an Aprilia swinging arm and big rear wheel etc, of course uprated front end etc and brakes, but all that said and done, you still need some big co-honies to open the throttle fully in the lower gears ! :

[Dixie Dean]

Awesome

[Deleted]

WOW! Fantastic work.
I hope that's in a standard LC frame with bog standard LC brakes.

[Tobyjugs]

Aug 3, 2022 19:16:55 GMT 1 muttsnuts said:

Aug 3, 2022 13:31:55 GMT 1 jon said:

Not in any way dismissing the achievement (as it is quite some), but can a bike frame actually handle that sort of power and delivery ridden on the road? I’m not sure I’d have the bottle?

I can understand the big bore banshee stuff having more weight and in some cases extended wheelbase or even wheely bars.

This is one case where an RGV arm in an LC would be of benefit being longer.

Jon

LOL - your not wrong Jon, the frame has been braced (all over the place), it runs an Aprilia swinging arm and big rear wheel etc, of course uprated front end etc and brakes, but all that said and done, you still need some big co-honies to open the throttle fully in the lower gears ! :

I think people don't realise how much thought has to go into the gearbox as well.

[steve h]

Utter madness.
You need locking up... and I have just the shed/workshop for jailing you....

That would be interesting in an F2 race class if there is such a thing now.