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Post by JonW on Nov 8, 2021 2:41:35 GMT 1
new code for me, can anyone fill me in on what these are? ta.
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Post by wwwRD350LCnet on Nov 8, 2021 9:05:12 GMT 1
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Post by JonW on Nov 8, 2021 12:37:09 GMT 1
Ahh ok, So are these restricted or was that restriction in just the exhaust?
It seems weird to not just use the 1UA version unless there is something different inside them? hmm...
Has anyone used these for a full power 350?
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Post by midlifecrisisrd on Nov 8, 2021 18:49:01 GMT 1
I'd have thought they'd have a smaller Power jet at least like the 250
Steve
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Post by JonW on Nov 9, 2021 0:43:14 GMT 1
I'd have thought they'd have a smaller Power jet at least like the 250 Steve Ahhh.... a little more dismantling and yes, youre right Steve. fixed PJ. Damn.  Has anyone successfully removed a fixed jet and replaced it with a normal version? I cant even find an online diagram with someone selling the removable PJ jet itself, the yam part books dont either hmmm. Only thing i can find is the add on PJ kit and that uses totally different jets. FWIW These have 290 mains. The fact the rest is standard (27.5 pilots, 5K1 needles), says to me like someone has upped the mains to compensate for the fixed jet. Is that the recognised way to do this or have I ended up with carbs i cant really use unless I find bowls with the removable jets? |
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Post by midlifecrisisrd on Nov 9, 2021 8:36:50 GMT 1
I think it may be possible jon
I changed the pair in the 1GA carbs I got from you but I used 1ua bowls I got from oldbritguy
Allens sold me powerjets
They were different as in they were bigger. Screwed in ok but only the threaded section went in the hole, the jet sat above
They were m4 thread. I have drilled a fixed jet, tapped a thread and pulled it out. If there is enough meat for an m4 thread you are laughing
I'll have to see what carb bottoms I have
Steve
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Post by JonW on Nov 9, 2021 8:53:06 GMT 1
Great info Steve. Thanks for that mate.
Looking at them today I do think they could be pulled and rethreaded to M4. hmm... Do we (or Allens?) know what the OEM PJ size is for a 1UA?
I think the length and width of the jet wouldnt be an issue as so long as its in the tube between the top and bottom halves of the carb it would be fine. hmm... food for thought.
Ta for looking for me. I did wonder if the 'arms' these jets fit into that fixes to the bowl could be swapped as well as they probably just press fit. hmm...
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Post by midlifecrisisrd on Nov 9, 2021 11:55:38 GMT 1
As mikuni use the same measurement on their jets even a pilot jet would work
The PJ's Allen's sent me were wider above the thread so seated nicely on the end of the bowl spigot
Standard were 55 on one side and 60 on the other
I think I still have the ones I removed to fit the 250 ones
The smallest I could get were 30's
Bike ran well
Steve
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Post by JonW on Nov 9, 2021 12:39:27 GMT 1
Interesting... They do look like a lot like pilots actually.
Weird that one was larger than the other, I wonder why that was?
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Post by midlifecrisisrd on Nov 9, 2021 17:30:31 GMT 1
It is strange
Have you checked they are actually smaller jets
The later 350 ypvs carbs were fixed pj but the larger sizes
I only changed them on the 250 as i had no idea what was fitted
Steve
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Post by wwwRD350LCnet on Nov 9, 2021 21:54:12 GMT 1
Hello jonw, I have found the part list of 1WW (1XA) 50HP and 1WX (1XE) 27HP, so I will send them to you and you can play the 7 errors game with 1UA part list  ! Xavier |
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Post by JonW on Nov 9, 2021 22:59:32 GMT 1
It is strange Have you checked they are actually smaller jets The later 350 ypvs carbs were fixed pj but the larger sizes I only changed them on the 250 as i had no idea what was fitted Steve Ahh, I thought the 350's were removable... learn something new every day. whats the best method to test for the size? |
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Post by JonW on Nov 9, 2021 23:03:14 GMT 1
Hello jonw, I have found the part list of 1WW (1XA) 50HP and 1WX (1XE) 27HP, so I will send them to you and you can play the 7 errors game with 1UA part list ! Xavier Cool, thanks Xavier. Email landed, I'll have a look. By the way Im not 100% sure i trust the document page you showed earlier with all those arrows that just point back across. The Aussie 250 supplemental manuals do that for some of the bikes and they are wrong as I know for a fact some parts are different, yet they arrow across in the book. I think sometimes they are written early in the development cycle or things change and they are not updated prior to the launch. |
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Post by midlifecrisisrd on Nov 9, 2021 23:24:41 GMT 1
It is strange Have you checked they are actually smaller jets The later 350 ypvs carbs were fixed pj but the larger sizes I only changed them on the 250 as i had no idea what was fitted Steve Ahh, I thought the 350's were removable... learn something new every day. whats the best method to test for the size? There are 00 and 10 1ua carbs. The fixed PJ us the difference I'd be finding a needle or wire that's a snug fit in a pilot jet then see if it's a wizard's sleeve with the PJ Steve |
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Post by JonW on Nov 9, 2021 23:50:30 GMT 1
Ahh, I thought the 350's were removable... learn something new every day. whats the best method to test for the size? There are 00 and 10 1ua carbs. The fixed PJ us the difference I'd be finding a needle or wire that's a snug fit in a pilot jet then see if it's a wizard's sleeve with the PJ Steve Haha, yeah the old Wizards sleeve test. Weve all done that  I's considered that but wondered if there was a more scientific way with a flow bench and a volume of water or something, I should have known the old fuse wire trick was the way haha |
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Post by midlifecrisisrd on Nov 9, 2021 23:59:26 GMT 1
There is a proper gauge but it's £50 😱
Steve
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Post by JonW on Nov 10, 2021 1:10:07 GMT 1
Haha, I'll get some old wire out lol... Ok, Ive had a coffee now and started looking at the parts book info between 1UA, !XA and IXE: (thanks Xavier for the emailed 1XA/1XE info, let the '7 Errors Game' commence - see below lol!) Obviously if a person bought carbs as a whole unit the part numbers are different as they would contain all the parts for a specific model and would be stamped with the code for that model on the body. In fact, simply stamping a unit with a different code on the side would make it different enough to warrant a new part number, even if nothing else changed. Yamaha Parts is about referencing the parts used on their machines, not so much about what would fit/work between models. The downside is that we have no idea from the parts books if the bowl jet size or if an internal passageway would be different between these VM26 bodies as you cannot buy those parts individually from Yam so since they are not listed we cannot determine if they are the same between versions of the Yam stamped VM26s or not. FWIW There has been a lot of rumour about internal passageways being different on these carb bodies for years, but I dont think anyone has proved it one way or other. If they have I would love to hear about it. In my mind it makes no sense for Mikuni to go to that effort. While over the years the VM26 came in a many variants; single and dual setups, choke differences etc etc. For our bikes its really just a set of base left and right hand units that apart from the change to PJs all look the same, 250 and 350 in all regions from LC to R. Im becoming of the opinion that the main body was all cast the same but designed to be configurable using different sizes of jets, emulsion tubes and needles (and possibly a jet in the bowls). Why would they have gone to the complexity of creating new moulds to cast differently sized internal passages inside the body? Surely it makes more sense to cast up a single standard body for all those setups and then make the units perform differently using the configurable parts... Ok, So... to the configuration differences between the IUA and IXA. IUA - Full Power ------------------- Pilot - 25 Main - 185 Needle - 5L20 (Part of the 1UA-1490J-00 kit) - Info from rdlccrazy.proboards.com/thread/37553/1-ua-carbsEmulsion tube - Part number is 1UA-14141-28 but no idea what code is on it, some flavour of the usual P2345 I would think. bowl jet - no idea 1XA 37KW restricted (IXE 20KW restricted version in brackets) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Pilot - 27.5 (1XE is 25) Main - 180 (1XE is 185) Needle - 5L20 (Part of the 1UA-1490J-00 kit) - Info from rdlccrazy.proboards.com/thread/37553/1-ua-carbsEmulsion tube - 1XA-14141-28 (but worth noting the 20KW IXE uses the IUA part number) bowl jet - no idea So assuming the body of the carb and the bowl are the same the restrictions that limit the IXA are: Pilot - is sized 2.5 larger (unexpected, so something is else holding the idle back?) Main - 5 smaller than the 1UA (this would be a restriction but has to be coupled with less air, maybe thats the Emulsion tube?) Needle - is the same Emulsion tube - no idea what the difference is with the 1XA part number, will pull out and look. bowl jet - no idea Today, I'll see what i can find with some wire today for these bowls and check out the Emulsion tube as well... |
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Post by JonW on Nov 10, 2021 6:21:04 GMT 1
Ok... ever onwards. I guess. It wasnt very scientific but I believe the bowl jet is 'about 30' compared with a 30 pilot jet and me fiddling with wire. In fact the 250 I tested came out about the same, maybe the 1XA is a 32.5... but I dont have one, a 35 was too big though. 30 was a pretty good fit but wasnt tight. Not quite the sleeve of a Wizard tho! lol I also pulled the 1XA's Emulsion tubes... its not what i expected: Both are a 544 N-8. WTF is one of those? it has 2 holes per side, not the 4 of the 345 we are used to. I expected some kind of 345, probably a -0 but most likely the -2 like the 250's 1GA carbs. hmmm The needles on these 1XAs are 5K1s... they should be 5L20 I guess. Ive no idea on the profile difference between a 5K1 and a 5L20... Ok, so... someone has been inside these and worked on them probably to get them to work with their bike. The pilots are 27.5, but the mains are 290 etc. So, I guess I have a few more questions: 1 - what is numbering on the original Emulsion Tube in the 1UA carb? I dont know if what i have is a random fitment or the OEM 1XA. 2 - The bowl jetting i have now is 30(I guess) + 290... Jeez... = 320. OEM would be 60(55 on one side) +185 on the IUA = 245. What the hell were these carbs running on?! 3 - what should i be aiming for to get these to be 1UA spec I wonder. Do I need 5L20 needles and whatever the emulsion tube should be as well as the standard main and fix the PJ sizing? Im wondering if this is a lot of work for something unknown |
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Post by midlifecrisisrd on Nov 10, 2021 10:03:51 GMT 1
I'll have to check what I have Jon
As said I have a pair of 1ua bodies I got from oldbritguy and I only used the bowls on the 3hm1 with new pj's to male sure they were correct
Interesting your guesstimate as Allen's told me 30 was the smallest PJ mikuni make
In the end my 250 was running the 250 emulsion tubes (4l0 ones) but a richer needle
I agree the bodies are the same. Only jets/nozzle/needle/choke and air correction jet will vary
A passage is just a passage, it's the restriction by a jet that does the work
Steve
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Post by Tobyjugs on Nov 10, 2021 12:02:37 GMT 1
I'd have thought they'd have a smaller Power jet at least like the 250 Steve Ahhh.... a little more dismantling and yes, youre right Steve. fixed PJ. Damn. Has anyone successfully removed a fixed jet and replaced it with a normal version? I cant even find an online diagram with someone selling the removable PJ jet itself, the yam part books dont either hmmm. Only thing i can find is the add on PJ kit and that uses totally different jets. FWIW These have 290 mains. The fact the rest is standard (27.5 pilots, 5K1 needles), says to me like someone has upped the mains to compensate for the fixed jet. Is that the recognised way to do this or have I ended up with carbs i cant really use unless I find bowls with the removable jets? Yes a friend did it not so long ago. Quite simple really. |
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Post by JonW on Nov 10, 2021 13:33:30 GMT 1
I'll have to check what I have Jon As said I have a pair of 1ua bodies I got from oldbritguy and I only used the bowls on the 3hm1 with new pj's to male sure they were correct Interesting your guesstimate as Allen's told me 30 was the smallest PJ mikuni make In the end my 250 was running the 250 emulsion tubes (4l0 ones) but a richer needle I agree the bodies are the same. Only jets/nozzle/needle/choke and air correction jet will vary A passage is just a passage, it's the restriction by a jet that does the work Steve The 250 Emulsions (1GA carbs anyway) are P345-2, they are a 4L0 part number but the last 2 digits after the main number mean there are multiple versions of these out there. The 1GA needle is a 4N10 FWIW. Its a thin thing compared to a 5K1. |
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Post by JonW on Nov 10, 2021 13:34:28 GMT 1
Ahhh.... a little more dismantling and yes, youre right Steve. fixed PJ. Damn. Has anyone successfully removed a fixed jet and replaced it with a normal version? I cant even find an online diagram with someone selling the removable PJ jet itself, the yam part books dont either hmmm. Only thing i can find is the add on PJ kit and that uses totally different jets. FWIW These have 290 mains. The fact the rest is standard (27.5 pilots, 5K1 needles), says to me like someone has upped the mains to compensate for the fixed jet. Is that the recognised way to do this or have I ended up with carbs i cant really use unless I find bowls with the removable jets? Yes a friend did it not so long ago. Quite simple really. Tony, interesting... but which bit? the sorting of the bowl jet or just whacking in some massive mains? |
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Post by Tobyjugs on Nov 10, 2021 18:26:04 GMT 1
No he drilled out the damaged jet hole and tapped the hole. He then screwed in a jet with the same size orifice as the original jet size.
Very simple and effective.
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Post by midlifecrisisrd on Nov 10, 2021 19:36:28 GMT 1
I've been and checked my 1ua carb bodies
These are jetted as standard so think everything is as it should be
There are no tops or slides/needles so can't help there I'm afraid
Emulsion tubes are marked N-8
I have 5N12 needles but God knows what they are out of
Steve
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Post by midlifecrisisrd on Nov 10, 2021 19:43:20 GMT 1
The 5k1 needles are wrong as they go in the 31k carbs and the 1ua are different as per Xaviers data
Now if you have 5k1 needles and P345-0 (I think that's 31k) I'd shove a 6mm ball bearing up the PJ tube and fit 240 mains 😉
Steve
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Post by JonW on Nov 11, 2021 0:14:11 GMT 1
No he drilled out the damaged jet hole and tapped the hole. He then screwed in a jet with the same size orifice as the original jet size. Very simple and effective. Cool, thanks. Do you know what sizes of jets he used? Im intrigued to know if he also found they were 55 and 60... and which bowl had what? |
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Post by JonW on Nov 11, 2021 0:26:00 GMT 1
I've been and checked my 1ua carb bodies These are jetted as standard so think everything is as it should be There are no tops or slides/needles so can't help there I'm afraid Emulsion tubes are marked N-8 I have 5N12 needles but God knows what they are out of Steve Interesting.... the more we dig the closer we get to working this out, Im amazed no one seems to have done this before, but if they did i cant find it. hmm... FWIW I'm sure there is some sense to the needle codes, but over the years I could never find it. I know the codes relate to the carb size, how far down the taper starts, thickness and end taper thickness plus the finish. ie I found this on another forum: 6DP17 - the 6 refers to the carb diameter to which the needle is suited. The DP refers to the taper on the needle - D is the leanest rate of taper, F is the richest. The 17 refers to the finish in the needle - some are brass and some are hard anodised aluminium.
I also found this as quite a good resource: www.jetsrus.com/a_jets_by_carburetor_type/needle_mikuni.htmlNone of that helps me find the 5L20 needs tho... I'll have to put up a Wanted ad for those Im thinking as they will be Yam fitment only and chances are they are just for the 86-on RD/RZ350 ypvs bikes. Steve, re the N-8 emulsions, are those also stamped 544? |
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Post by JonW on Nov 11, 2021 0:30:49 GMT 1
The 5k1 needles are wrong as they go in the 31k carbs and the 1ua are different as per Xaviers data Now if you have 5k1 needles and P345-0 (I think that's 31k) I'd shove a 6mm ball bearing up the PJ tube and fit 240 mains 😉 Steve Yes, 31K and 4L0 are all 5K1. no bad thing having some extra 5K1s in your life if you own those bikes lol. But yeah... not the 5L20 as expected. I actually think these are replacements that were done with the up jetting as they are quite new looking. I do actually have a set of spare p345-0 emulsion tubes... So yes youre right I could do that and to hell with the PJ... but... well... I was keen to build the bike as a totally standard 1UA spec hence the purchase of these carbs. You know me, I like things to be 'how they are/should be' lol. One thing i should check is if there isnt already a ball bearing up the rubber of course... the PO could have done that too haha... never thought to look at that... will report back |
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Post by midlifecrisisrd on Nov 11, 2021 9:37:56 GMT 1
Bugger, me never checked for any other writing, only saw the Mikuni logo then N-8
Have you spoke to Allens Performance
They supplied me with the needles and nozzles for the 250
Steve
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Post by Tobyjugs on Nov 11, 2021 10:07:15 GMT 1
Hi John I don't have much info for you a customer told him his bike was running badly. It kept cutting out on one cylinder if more than 7000rpm. After a lot of checking he found the problem. The owner drilled open the jet because it was blocked.
He just fitted another jet and reamed it out to the size of the jet in the other bowl.
This solved the problem.
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