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Post by JonW on Aug 23, 2021 0:14:05 GMT 1
Run a magnet over the "rust" That will soon tell you how much is rust and varnish Good point! Perhaps much of it isnt actually rust then... When I was first seeing the chunks lift off during the vinegar stage, I dipped my magnetic pick-up tool in the tank to try and pick up a chunk and nothing very much came up. I thought it was weird, but was moving pretty fast and didnt give it a second thought... but, yes, i should have! EDITED: Ive just been outside (mask on! we have to wear them all the time when outside now it seems) as I remembered there was a small mound of the chunks that came out of the tank near the outdoor tap. I ran a magnet over them and only a bit of dust was picked up, the magnet ignored all the big chunks. CONCLUSION: Mystery solved! most of this isnt rust its something else, probably old fuel. Phew!
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Post by stirling11 on Aug 23, 2021 4:16:29 GMT 1
That's a real positive for you
You can now be reasonably assured that the tank is is good condition and not liable to spring any major leaks
Either the residue has been coloured by the rust or that's the colour of the fuel residue
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Post by JonW on Aug 23, 2021 6:35:27 GMT 1
yes it is, tho i may need to go back to the vinegar to losen the last bits, DeoxC isnt eating the varnish... not that i would expect it to, its designed to eat rust. Its obviously not acidic enough lol.
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Post by stirling11 on Aug 23, 2021 6:37:59 GMT 1
If you have some Acetone, try that
Or the cheapest cans of Carby cleaner you can get hold of and empty them into the tank and swirl around with your string of nuts
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Post by JonW on Aug 23, 2021 6:54:50 GMT 1
I do have some acetone actually... The bits i cant seem to remove are the bits that are down the seam. Perhaps im tempting fate trying to free these and should leave it there lol
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Post by JonW on Aug 23, 2021 8:02:10 GMT 1
While the tank takes a leisurely bath I thought id have a look at something else for this bike, the seat. My plan is to try and build up something different with this seat and the existing F2 bodywork but using the non grab rail 3HM side panels and a honda single seat unit if i can get something to work with some ingenuity and a bunch of plastic welding. I think its going to be a bit of a nightmare to get it to work, but i am hopeful it will come out ok with enough messing about. I even got a cruzinimage bum pad for it, so Im as set to get started as I can be I think. This is another of those jobs Id be well underway on if lockdown hadnt happened here as Id have been up to see LB and collect the single seat unit. Amusingly I gifted this unit to him back in 2017 as he mentioned he'd like one and i found one. In fact I bid on it from a hotel lobby in Phenom Peng and picked it up when I got home from that holiday... from a bloke who restores WW2 Harleys! Its always nice when parts have a story. Anyway LB hadnt used it so said i could have it back. Good lad! Today was just about getting the cover off, having a look and a bit of a clean up. What was nice is that this is the original cover, I dont think ive removed an original cover in years! Almost all covers on 'our bikes' seats seem to be one of many now and there are a billion staple holes in the pan. The foam is worn where the legs (thighs?! eugh) of the rider have gripped the seat but i reckon the back was never sat on. Its a shame no one offers replacements for the 'thigh damage'... hmm...
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Post by Tobyjugs on Aug 23, 2021 16:36:08 GMT 1
Hi Jon. One thing i noticed was if you use the anode/cathode method was how much crap it shifts. Maybe you should try this.
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Post by donkeychomp on Aug 23, 2021 21:33:06 GMT 1
Seat tang is still there! An added bonus I'd say.
Alex
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Post by JonW on Aug 24, 2021 0:48:54 GMT 1
Hi Jon. One thing i noticed was if you use the anode/cathode method was how much crap it shifts. Maybe you should try this. Hi Tony, I dont think that would shift the varnish would it? It would be good for rust, tho I never seen to have any issue with rust removal with vinegar and DeoxC to be honest. Seat tang is still there! An added bonus I'd say. Alex Alex, yes, its actually not a bad seat really. It came with the F2 with the cut frame but as thats a resto i found a nos seat for that one a few years back so the old one got donated to this project. Considering i started with just a bare frame Im slowly getting there with parts.
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Post by Tobyjugs on Aug 24, 2021 6:54:25 GMT 1
I don't know for sure, but give it a try. I'm confident it will work
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Post by JonW on Aug 25, 2021 8:40:46 GMT 1
Ok a gentle update... the further you get down the tank cleaning rabbit hole, the smaller the progress each day (if any) haha. I've now had the tank on every side; Left, right, top (different angles) and bottom... oh yes, nose and tail too. So I reckon the deoxC has done all it can. I drained the tank and flushed it with water and had a good look inside. Its very clean now, but not 'perfect' yet... All that remains of the varnish (I think the DeoxC would have eaten any rust by now) is on both the left and right sides, in the seams. Of course it is, thats where anything rusty, wet or dirty stays and rots the tank if you let it. I made a tool with an old wire coat hanger to get a point down into the seams and shifted 99% of it on one side, the other (the fuel outlet side) cleaned up a bit but there is still some stuck in there, again this makes sense as if the bike was parked for years the last of the fuel and most of the debris would be on this side as its the lowest point. As you run the tool over it it feels 'rubbery', I think this is what i was feeling with the screwdriver in the beginning. Old fuel is a weird thing. Since the vinegar did a great job of shifting/lifting this varnish before I figured I'd let it have another got at finishing the job, perhaps I'd been a little hasty to get onto the DeoxC stage last time. I pulled out a clean and dry tub, fitted my blanking plate to the fuel tap outlet and filled her up with the evil smelling vinegar. (Dont worry i'll go back to DeoxC after to ensure thats all out and finish with DryCoat so any old-fuel-smell the vinegar has will be gone again. The DeoxC isnt getting a holiday tho, its currently having a 2nd go round on an RD350B (I think?) tank that id done a few years back and never used so had sprouted some minimal surface rust on the outside, i'll clean that off so its prettier and ebay it I think. No sense it clogging up the garage and someone will be able to use it and of course, i'll get a few more shekels for the projects
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Post by JonW on Aug 25, 2021 14:18:53 GMT 1
One thing I hadnt mentioned was something I'd never seen on a tank before, and bear in mind this tank had OEM paint and had never been redone. The rear edge hadnt been finished very well at the factory. It looks like it was cut with a plasma cutter and the sticky out bits were very sharp. Ive since filed it smooth, but very strange. you should be able to see what i mean in this pic, its the whole way along the lower steel plate across the back from one side seam to the other. Maybe all the edges are like this and the are smoothed after the welds are done, that would make sense, and this tank got that part missed out.
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Post by donkeychomp on Aug 25, 2021 21:17:23 GMT 1
So far so good Jon. That tank is a million miles away from what you started with.
Alex
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Post by JonW on Aug 26, 2021 5:57:20 GMT 1
Yes I agree Alex. Just like John Lee's wife. I'll explain. Years ago I knew some 'characters' in the watch world and would travel around meeting and dealing with all sorts of folks. One chap was a 2nd hand watch dealer in Hong Kong. A lovely chap called John Lee. Once when I met him his wife was there in his tiny shop, I was introduced to her. Nice people. The next time I was there she wasnt present and as it is customary to ask about family, I asked 'how is your wife?'... John fixed me with his steely stare and answered deadpan, 'So far, so good'. My wife was with me and to this day when someone says 'so far, so good' we both say 'like John Lee's wife'. lol Anyway, today's update... The F2 tank is holding vinegar and I used my new special tool to run along the seams. One side is now free of varnish as you cannot feel anything catching and its just steel-on-steel. The other side is better but does still catch a little on the rubbery varnish deposits. Im hopeful that another 24 hours will see those lifted as well. I do want to get these all off so that they wont come loose later and end up in my carbs. For completeness the RD350B(?) tank has been flipped and later today will be removed from the DeoxC and rinsed, dried and DryCoated ready for a outer coat of clear lacquer tomorrow and then it will be time for its ebay photoshoot.
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Post by JonW on Sept 4, 2021 0:44:34 GMT 1
I went back round the traps for almost a week hoping the vinegar would soften the 'fuel varnish' but it seems it had done all it could. I had already flattened the end of my wire coathanger (simple hammer job, it was surprisingly malleable) and used it as a scraper/pick to get right down into crevice along the seam, but it wasnt coming that much cleaner and I could feel the end of the coathanger-scraper rubbing across the top of the varnish. In fact this homemade tool was amazing for feel, you could really feel the difference between it skating over clean steel and then catching on the rubbery varnish deposits. I also formed the top like a loose T handle so i could twist the tip (more like a screwdriver shape) to get more or less 'scrape' and adjusted the tips angle with gentle bending to get it right down into the gap. Gotta love making your own tools for free. Ok, with that not really happening I decided I needed to up the ante and was about to use some Acetone as was suggested, but figured why not just use paint stripper? After all, varnish is paint, right? lol Time for a new (free) tool... I taped my old small paint stripper paint brush to a long screwdriver, dipped it in the paint stripper and into the tank it went. I guess Id been working in this area enough that I knew my mark; I was right on target! Within a few mins of leaving it to work it was already coming off. I got the coat hanger in there and could feel that the stuff was shifting. After about 15 mins of alternate brushing the stripper back down the crevice and using the coat hanger to pick-n-scrape, I had it shifted. Perfect! Should have done that a week back haha. Of course I then had to rinse the paint stripper out with water, so the tank needed a final short dip on all sides in the DeoxC to make sure the inside was as clean as could be and the rinsed again and protected with DryCoat for storage. With that all done there is no more varnish that i can see, I'm calling the stripping and dipping done. Wahooo! The great news is that there have been zero leaks and the tank has survived a lot of prodding and scraping along the lower seams without hassle. In fact it even got a gentle pressure test when i doing the final protecting of the inside. I fitted a bung in the filler hole and blanking the tap mount so i could distribute the DryCoat across all the insides with impunity, or at the very least avoid wet legs. Doing this I found that the turning and shaking produces bubbles when DryCoat froths up and this brings with it a little pressure. To further that, in between re-distributions of the product I let the tank sit for a bit in the sun as well and after 10 mins of that I gently undid the bung to the sound of a tiny fart, the tank not me! honest... Had there been any holes it would not have done that etc. Next and final job then... Let see what I can do with the dents. You never know what you can achieve unless you try.
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Post by donkeychomp on Sept 4, 2021 21:19:49 GMT 1
There's a myriad of ways to do that Jon but I'm sure you know that already! Looking forward to some before and after pics.
Alex
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Post by JonW on Sept 5, 2021 0:14:53 GMT 1
There's a myriad of ways to do that Jon but I'm sure you know that already! Looking forward to some before and after pics. Alex Yes after the huge job I did on my other 86-on tank this one will be simpler as it has less dents, but these are all short sharp hard edged knocks so with my limited tool I can only hope to reduce the filler needed, not eliminate it Here is a teaser pic...
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Post by donkeychomp on Sept 5, 2021 21:26:58 GMT 1
Those glue on kits are quite good. I got one a while back and it has managed to get some fairly big dings out of all sorts of metal.
Alex
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Post by JonW on Sept 5, 2021 23:39:18 GMT 1
They are great for large dents, its the small sharp ones that are the problem, metal stretches when its dented and sharp edges are stress points. From behind you have much more chance of sorting stuff like this, but i cant get inside to do that. Anyway, my plan is always to get to a stage where a thin skim of filler will sort it, I'd not expect a totally dent and filler free tank for a bike of this age, just want to avoid thick filler if i can help it.
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Post by JonW on Sept 8, 2021 1:46:25 GMT 1
Work on pulling the dents is done. A good few hours went into this work, mostly waiting for the glue gun to warm up and the glue to cool before work could be done. Actual time pulling dents is minimal, but elapsed time is huge... tho the hours fly by as youre making progress lol. Ok, I agree, they are not all fully removed. I never thought they would be, that would be impossible by only pulling from the outside by an amateur. To truly remove these would require pushing from the inside with PDR tools and the skills or a Pro as many of these dents were hard sharp edge knocks. As I said before these knocks stretch the metal and are very hard to remove without real tools and skill. My plan was always that these would only need a skim of filler, but that filler would be a much thinner coating than if I left the dents as they were. I believe I've achieved that goal, so I am happy. On the right hand side I did actually get the dent fully out, running your fingers over it you cant feel any distortion at all now. Have to be happy with that. This was a dent without such a hard edge and not so deep so there was always a good chance with it. The left side was tougher. I did pull up all the dents significantly, although its really hard to see in the photos, not least due to the colour and the DeoxC protected surface of the tank. FWIW Ive tried in both the before and after photos to highlight the dents, not make them look better than they are. That means the after shots dont look that great to be honest compared to real life but I can assure you each dent is significantly more shallow now. Ive saved a good few mm of filler on each one. I think that effort is well spent, I hate tanks with lots of filler in them, not least these later tanks which are light as a feather when just in steel. In fact they weigh considerably more in the hand when painted and decal'd even. Without further ado... Left side: Before: After: Right side: Before: After: So... Im all done with this tank now. It is now hanging from the rafters of my garage next to its sibling for the F2 resto, ready for when the bikes get built. Now then, what other parts do I need for them... Im very happy with my purchase and also the results of the efforts Ive put into restoring it. It looked a bit of a lost cause a few weeks ago, but is very impressive now. Huge thanks to Dejan for supplying and (twice) sending it. Cheers mate!
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Post by donkeychomp on Sept 8, 2021 21:51:12 GMT 1
Nice work Jon. A skim of plod here and there and it's done.
Alex
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Post by JonW on Sept 9, 2021 10:40:22 GMT 1
Thanks mate, that was the plan. Mission accomplished What can I find to look at next... hmm...
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Post by donkeychomp on Sept 9, 2021 21:35:44 GMT 1
You can do my LC tank if you are that desperate... Alex
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Post by abar121 on Sept 10, 2021 9:23:09 GMT 1
Good work!
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Post by JonW on Sept 10, 2021 14:05:17 GMT 1
You can do my LC tank if you are that desperate... Alex Er, not quiet what I was thinking lol! I'm wondering what I can find to do on this project next... tho im not sposed to be doing anything on it really, its meant to be scheduled in after some maintenance on the fleet, engine build and paint for an LC2, a 500 build, an F2 build... hmm....
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Post by JonW on Sept 13, 2021 4:03:56 GMT 1
Well just when I least expected it, I had a delivery for this project. Keeping the theme of JDM, I wanted some Japanese pipes for this bike. There are lots of options of course. But.... With 47 projects on the go and this bike being a fun project, not an all out mega money build, in the end I went cheap.... ...and boy were they good value. This set delivered to my door were circa Au$600 from webike; Let's call that £300 at today's rates. Wow! Ok, so the more expensive brands wont be losing any sleep over them being mild steel, the thin dusting of high temp clear over the surface or their riveted cans, but thats not the whole story they do have great clean, small welds and the cans even have gaskets. As we know, most people would be asking almost half the cost of this just for some cans... And they are said to sound nice and fit well in the reviews on the Japanese parts seller sites. Are they the best money can buy? nope, course not. But for me they are something a JDM bike could/would have; so all good. I was going to go with the GP exit version but was a bit worried they would run through the centre stand area which of course with the RGV NK kit Ive already got filled with the suspension linkage parts. I was going to go cross overs as they look good and are pretty JDM, but in the end I was worried if I did fit the fairing belly then it could foul/melt, so I bought the simple straight pipes version, the TYPE-1 STRAIGHT. Of course I should add that K2TEC do sell stainless and other much more exy pipes as well and webike (a good source of JDM and other parts imho) sells other (some cheaper too!) brands as well, I see today that Mizuno mild steel pipes with cans are US$360+post (and local taxes) etc. Thats US$50 cheaper than the K2TECs. Let's address the elephant in the room - There is one cheaper pipe you can buy there as well, the 2-1 version, its around US$260! I wasnt about to buy that, its a bizarre thing and makes the bike look like a 4T lol (probably sounds like one too...) and it also kills the performance for sure. I dont want an RZ to look like a CB250 or sound like one lol So, for the money these k2tec units hit the nail on the head for me. I'll probably paint them with some of the KBS Extreme high heat paint I already have, keeping in with the low cost theme. No sense paying 1/3-1/2 their value for ceramic coating lol. Sadly no pic of the pipes out of the wrapping when i checked em, I thought i took one but obviously not. --- Note: For those tracking post stuff like this. This was a Surface Mail Webike order (postage is very good value, but not fast): Ordered: 24/6 (small delay while they got the items i ordered into stock) Sent: 30/6 On docks (KAWASAKIHIGASHI) and tracked 'out of Japan': 1/7 Arrived in Sydney: 9/9 At my house 13/9 FYI I think I missed the boat (literally) or they might have been here earlier, Chris ordered some stuff only days before me and it caught the earlier boat.
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Post by pdxjim on Sept 13, 2021 8:02:38 GMT 1
Gonna need to paint them red if you wanna be JDM style. 🤣
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Post by JonW on Sept 13, 2021 13:42:30 GMT 1
Gonna need to paint them red if you wanna be JDM style. 🤣 Haha, er... you'll need to provide pics Jim I might be convinced... you never know!
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Post by nokturnal on Sept 14, 2021 13:31:31 GMT 1
I’ve been eyeing up those K2 pipes for a while. Can’t wait to seem them on the bike.
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Post by JonW on Sept 14, 2021 13:59:49 GMT 1
I’ve been eyeing up those K2 pipes for a while. Can’t wait to seem them on the bike. Sadly you wont see them on this bike for ages, its about 3 projects away from being started and im not known for my speed :/
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