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Post by markg64 on Aug 7, 2019 18:51:07 GMT 1
Bike struggles to go into neutral. I hear there is a mod or bush to sort this out. Anyone know who does it or can supply the bits ?
Cheers Mark
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Post by jon on Aug 7, 2019 19:00:59 GMT 1
I have a smoothed gear selector star, I’d sell or swap if you like.
Jon
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Post by 4l04ever on Aug 7, 2019 22:45:53 GMT 1
Apparently you are very popular if you have a smooth star... ;-)
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Post by 4l04ever on Aug 7, 2019 22:49:04 GMT 1
I can modify the stopper arm so it has a nice bearing fitted and also provide a phosphor bronze bush fitting and bolt for it to pivot on. Fit one of these plus a modified star, and some suitable oil and that should get you a lot closer to being able to get neutral.
I have been using Comma Eurolite Semi-synthetic car oil lately which seems to work well.
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Post by bare on Aug 8, 2019 3:32:46 GMT 1
Star mod quickens/lightens shits So much so that My LC shifts Faster, Cleaner than does my 600RR. Which features OEM undercut Dogs for claimed faster lighter shift feel. IMO :-) dicking with the selector's Bearing is a Faith based modification. TRY using GL4 Gear oil in the transbox. Cheap easy experiment.. Might even help. Has for others with similar problem.
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Post by muttsnuts on Aug 8, 2019 4:48:17 GMT 1
Star mod quickens/lightens shits So much so that My LC shifts Faster, Cleaner than does my 600RR. Which features OEM undercut Dogs for claimed faster lighter shift feel. IMO :-) dicking with the selector's Bearing is a Faith based modification. TRY using GL4 Gear oil in the transbox. Cheap easy experiment.. Might even help. Has for others with similar problem. you feeling ok Bare, no negative comments or anything, you might need to lie down for 5 mins
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Post by dusty350 on Aug 8, 2019 7:16:48 GMT 1
Last few builds I've done I have modded the selector stopper arm. I bought a Shift Pro first which has a bearing rather than the Yamaha washer and rivet. It also has a weaker spring. Fitted it, and didn't notice a huge amount of difference to be fair - neutral was still a bit of a pig to locate on a running engine. Next 2 builds I fitted a bearing I bought, and Alan Kelly on here very kindly machined a fixing bolt for it as you need clearance behind the clutch back plate. So you get a Shift pro design for about £6 and not £55 ! Still no massive difference, and even spinning the gears on the bench still finds the selector very stiff. Having said that I still think it's a worthy mod as it has to be better than the cheap washer Yamaha fitted. Biggest difference I have found was the modded shift star. You can buy these - the Banshee aftermarket guys sell them and maybe even Martin at MBD I think ? Again, Alan machined it for me, and I fitted it and spun the gears on the bench and the selector was really smooth; 20190521_165127 by dusty miller, on Flickr Like night and day compared to a standard star. Still haven't run the engine - it's the café racer bike build so not finished yet, but the stopper bearing, modded star and standard Yam spring - not a weaker one - will hopefully solve the issue of awol neutral ! Good oil, and parts within tolerance, plus a well adjusted clutch all need to be in the mix too of course Dusty
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Post by AndyYam on Aug 15, 2019 10:42:16 GMT 1
Nearly started a thread and then found this. Really useful info. Just ordered some Silkolene Medium GL4 Gear oil as a start. I've dropped a message to MBD on the facebook page, fingers crossed!!
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Post by AndyYam on Aug 15, 2019 11:25:21 GMT 1
Martin's replied. In stock and £66 incl postage currently. Bargain if it helps with neutral and gear changes.
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Post by jon on Aug 15, 2019 20:04:18 GMT 1
Did you not mine for less than half the price?
Jon
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Post by tacky1 on Aug 16, 2019 1:54:07 GMT 1
I mod the shift star on all my builds. I sand the ends of all the peaks on the star. Take them down to where they are the same distance all around the pin. Very easy mod and it just makes night and day to your gears. My bikes are really easy to shift and find neutral. Should be compulsory on all builds 🤪
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Post by shandyboy on Aug 16, 2019 7:36:17 GMT 1
Dusty on your photo all the points on the stars look like they have been apart from one ? its the point in the top right-hand corner.
Is that right or is it the angle of the photo? I need to do the mod and was unsure Buddy
Thanks Alan
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Post by AndyYam on Aug 16, 2019 12:26:36 GMT 1
Did you not mine for less than half the price? Jon I assume the thread owner had snaffled that?
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Post by jon on Aug 16, 2019 18:13:56 GMT 1
Dusty on your photo all the points on the stars look like they have been apart from one ? its the point in the top right-hand corner. Is that right or is it the angle of the photo? I need to do the mod and was unsure Buddy Thanks Alan It’s supposed to be untouched. It’s the stop between 1st and 6th. The drum doesn’t rotate 360 degrees. Jon
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Post by shandyboy on Aug 16, 2019 22:08:18 GMT 1
Sound learning all the time
Thank Jon
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Post by risolc on Aug 18, 2019 12:13:37 GMT 1
I can modify the stopper arm so it has a nice bearing fitted and also provide a phosphor bronze bush fitting and bolt for it to pivot on. Fit one of these plus a modified star, and some suitable oil and that should get you a lot closer to being able to get neutral. I have been using Comma Eurolite Semi-synthetic car oil lately which seems to work well. Would you be interested in modify my arm? do you do the star mod too? best regards Dave
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Post by AndyYam on Aug 18, 2019 21:43:42 GMT 1
Can I just ask if when we're talking about not finding neutral is it that the gear lever just wont move from 1st, like locked solid, or it skips passed? Mine is just solid if i stop in 1st.
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Post by dusty350 on Aug 19, 2019 9:17:23 GMT 1
I've found the lever stiff when in first, then when a lot of pressure is applied it skips past neutral into second !. If you turn the engine off it will then slip straight into neutral ! Done it on most of the unmodded rd's I've owned. The modded star on my latest pv engine selected gears when the engine was on the bench much easier than previous builds with unmodded stars. I will always mod on future builds.
Dusty👍
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Post by wallcraft on Aug 19, 2019 13:35:32 GMT 1
Done all of the above mods on mine, no better just skips through neutral in to the next gear up or down like a dose of sh**ts 😦 The mods made for a lighter and faster selection tranny but hasn’t help my neutral selection problem. Think over winter I’ll be splitting it to investigate further.
Mark
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Post by dusty350 on Aug 19, 2019 14:30:49 GMT 1
Out of interest Mark, did you use the lighter Shiftpro spring or the standard Yam item ? Dusty
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Post by headcoats on Aug 19, 2019 15:10:33 GMT 1
Might be a case of the "stack height" of the combined friction and steel plates ?
I had it with the red LC after I put in some new steels and the clutch was awful as in dragging and finding neutral Had to put in the old steels again
Finding neutral before coming to a stop helps loads too
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Post by AndyYam on Aug 19, 2019 15:42:42 GMT 1
I've found the lever stiff when in first, then when a lot of pressure is applied it skips past neutral into second !. If you turn the engine off it will then slip straight into neutral ! Done it on most of the unmodded rd's I've owned. The modded star on my latest pv engine selected gears when the engine was on the bench much easier than previous builds with unmodded stars. I will always mod on future builds. Dusty👍 Yeah, when I pull up I just have a solid lever. I've never put too much pressure on as wasn't sure what damage i might do. If i kill the engine it goes into neutral fine. I vaguely remember someone mentioning something about worn clutch rubbers but I've no idea where/when and never found anything about it since.
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Post by wallcraft on Aug 19, 2019 16:46:09 GMT 1
Might be a case of the "stack height" of the combined friction and steel plates ? I had it with the red LC after I put in some new steels and the clutch was awful as in dragging and finding neutral Had to put in the old steels again Finding neutral before coming to a stop helps loads too Stack height seems fine, just got a feeling it’s something I’ve missed when building the motor deep inside the box 🤔
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Post by wallcraft on Aug 19, 2019 17:01:22 GMT 1
Out of interest Mark, did you use the lighter Shiftpro spring or the standard Yam item ? Dusty Hi Dusty, yes tried the weaker spring it felt like it wasn’t helping the neutral problem, as in it lost a bit of feel and just felt to slick, so put the original back in and felt nicer for street use. If I hadn’t of had the finding neutral problem then I would of left the softer spring in for a super fast gear change. Even with the bike not running it’s a pig, almost as if the neutral land curvature on the star is to small for the shift roller (bearing) to settle on and just skips over in to first or second.
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Post by 4l04ever on Aug 19, 2019 18:01:59 GMT 1
Hi Mark
What oil are you currently using?
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Post by alankelly on Aug 19, 2019 20:13:36 GMT 1
Hi all
I think the shift star and selector arm bearing modification is a really good mod that makes the box much less notchy but I think that the operation of the clutch assembly (correct basket lift / distance to allow the plates to separate correctly to allow the plates to “slip” to release any preloading / drag on the gearbox assembly when the clutch lever is pulled in when the bike is stationary (when the engine is running) is critical to allow the gear assembly to slide smoothly to allow you to select neutral hence why if you cut the engine the problem usually goes away
But if you are still not able to easily select neutral even with the engine cut I think there may be a mechanical issue such a a binding shift drum or bent selector fork or something else binding that is not allowing the gear selector system to smoothly move the gears on there respective shafts to the neutral position
Hope the above makes some sense
Best wishes Al
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Post by wallcraft on Aug 19, 2019 21:42:01 GMT 1
Hi Mark What oil are you currently using? Coma GL4/85 mineral and now just switched to ATF mineral.
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Post by dusty350 on Aug 20, 2019 7:17:35 GMT 1
I used the Yam spring (stronger) spring after reading on here the weaker spring was too weak with the other mods. Wont know for sure until the bike is finished of course, but the test on the bench looks promising compared to no mods at all. Dusty
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Post by zig on Apr 22, 2022 20:41:36 GMT 1
I used the Yam spring (stronger) spring after reading on here the weaker spring was too weak with the other mods. Wont know for sure until the bike is finished of course, but the test on the bench looks promising compared to no mods at all. Dusty just seen this old post about the star mod etc , can i ask you Dusty for an update on how you got on with everything after you got your build up and going interested as i am having the same problem with neutral after a complete complete build and everything brand new .. clutch basket plates fiber's Alan's selector mod with bearing new selector shaft ete etc you get the picture , no neutral only when you turn the bike off ZiG
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Post by carioca656 on Apr 22, 2022 22:18:39 GMT 1
you need to adjust the bolt that the gear shaft spring goes over its an eccentric bolt the gear pawl needs to be central between the pegs on star shift wheel probably not a good explanation but it tells you about this in the workshop manual
adie
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