|
Post by crm on Sept 2, 2019 13:46:30 GMT 1
if in any doubt buy one of these www.classic-oils.net/EthanilI am sure my local Esso is ethanol free for their super unleaded and will confirm accordingly.
|
|
|
Post by rigga on Sept 2, 2019 16:26:37 GMT 1
Changed my fuel tap for a nice easy to turn one today, single outlet rather than previous twin, so changed the pipework to suit, and the state of the old stuff was pretty poor, clear pipe gone all yellow and hard, fuel is killing rubber and plastic.
|
|
|
Post by rogirdtwofiftee on Sept 2, 2019 20:53:33 GMT 1
I put Esso fuel in my 250LC earlier this and it didn't start very well and spluttered when running. I have since used Shell super unleaded with no problems.
|
|
|
Post by earthman on Sept 8, 2019 11:48:24 GMT 1
Filled up at my local BP this morning and noticed all the new E stickers, they certainly weren't there last time I visited. If we are stuck with having this substance in all grades of petrol then maybe I'll switch to the cheaper standard unleaded pump.
It will be interesting to see if I have any problems with whatever grade that contains such a small amount (5%) due to my mileage/usage.
Anyone else actually getting through say a tankful of fuel a month?
|
|
neil
Thrash Merchant
my 125
Posts: 385
|
Post by neil on Sept 8, 2019 13:24:52 GMT 1
Ive noticed e5 on the super unleaded local to me moe too! Think it may be affecting my fuel tap, as in passing through it when turned off! Bikes been stood 3 weeks had to do roughly 10 kicks full throttle before it would start today.
|
|
|
Post by earthman on Sept 8, 2019 13:58:01 GMT 1
Ive noticed e5 on the super unleaded local to me moe too! Think it may be affecting my fuel tap, as in passing through it when turned off! Bikes been stood 3 weeks had to do roughly 10 kicks full throttle before it would start today. Blimey, that's no time at all, maybe it's just coincidence, seal in tap may have just given up the ghost??
|
|
neil
Thrash Merchant
my 125
Posts: 385
|
Post by neil on Sept 8, 2019 18:27:13 GMT 1
Cheers earthman as you say maybe a coincidence. I take it you can get seals for the taps? I left the petrol tap on this afternoon for a while and the bike started ok. I would have thought the petrol would come out of the overflow pipe before flooding the engine? Surely the float valve wasn't seating properly either? The bike was on the side stand don't know if this would have made a difference.
|
|
|
Post by earthman on Sept 8, 2019 19:47:02 GMT 1
|
|
|
Post by alexx on Oct 2, 2019 8:34:20 GMT 1
and from today in EU Euro95 is E10
sad times
|
|
|
Post by wassy06 on Oct 3, 2019 21:59:13 GMT 1
Bought four litres of Aspen from the local lawn mower place ready for the winter lay up.
|
|
|
Post by icarus001 on Oct 4, 2019 5:00:04 GMT 1
I just left petrol in my bikes this year, I got fed up with faffing about draining them down, especially the TDR as it's a right nuisance to get at everything. I suppose time will tell if it was a wise decision, if I end up having to take the carbs off all the bikes and put them through the sonic cleaner in April next year then I'll be kicking myself for not draining them.
|
|
|
Post by earthman on Oct 4, 2019 9:11:39 GMT 1
and from today in EU Euro95 is E10 sad times Yes, I hear that you folks abroad are stuck with 10% of it, what do all the classic car clubs/groups have to say on the matter? Would be interested to hear if you can get away with running an old vehicle on it without having problems?? If say you are getting through a tankful of fuel every couple of months and everything is fine, us owners who ride frequently in the UK should be OK with the 5% stuff,...well that's what I'm hoping.
|
|
|
Post by liffy16 on Oct 4, 2019 14:47:32 GMT 1
and from today in EU Euro95 is E10 sad times Yes, I hear that you folks abroad are stuck with 10% of it, what do all the classic car clubs/groups have to say on the matter? Would be interested to hear if you can get away with running an old vehicle on it without having problems?? If say you are getting through a tankful of fuel every couple of months and everything is fine, us owners who ride frequently in the UK should be OK with the 5% stuff,...well that's what I'm hoping. Sad the way things are going but lets just hope thats it for now,my worry long term is the availability of petrol with people pushing for elecrtic/hydrogen
|
|
|
Post by copper99 on Oct 4, 2019 20:50:30 GMT 1
and from today in EU Euro95 is E10 sad times Yes, I hear that you folks abroad are stuck with 10% of it, what do all the classic car clubs/groups have to say on the matter? Would be interested to hear if you can get away with running an old vehicle on it without having problems?? If say you are getting through a tankful of fuel every couple of months and everything is fine, us owners who ride frequently in the UK should be OK with the 5% stuff,...well that's what I'm hoping. Rubbish.. Its been that way for a few years now.never been a problem with any of my bikes and Haggler (Pete) has been to Germany this year on his GT750, maybe twice(?).. We was in France in June of this year for the D Day commemorations and there was some VERY old 2 and 4 stroke bikes and petrol vehicles filling up, many of them rode and drove down to Normandy from the UK and further afield. Mike (kopite30)also got a steady 110MPH out of his TDR250 for a good stretch of the autoroute on the std fuel and was shown less mercy every where else...
Keep calm & carry on Captain Mainwaring...
|
|
kopite30
Thrash Merchant
http://www.motomovers.uk
Posts: 492
|
Post by kopite30 on Oct 4, 2019 21:00:12 GMT 1
Yes b, The TDR was fine.
As was the KR1R,LCs and NS400 last year when we did the bikers classic at Spa, Belgium.
|
|
|
Post by earthman on Oct 4, 2019 21:45:00 GMT 1
Yes, I hear that you folks abroad are stuck with 10% of it, what do all the classic car clubs/groups have to say on the matter? Would be interested to hear if you can get away with running an old vehicle on it without having problems?? If say you are getting through a tankful of fuel every couple of months and everything is fine, us owners who ride frequently in the UK should be OK with the 5% stuff,...well that's what I'm hoping. Rubbish.. Its been that way for a few years now.never been a problem with any of my bikes and Haggler (Pete) has been to Germany this year on his GT750, maybe twice(?).. We was in France in June of this year for the D Day commemorations and there was some VERY old 2 and 4 stroke bikes and petrol vehicles filling up, many of them rode and drove down to Normandy from the UK and further afield. Mike (kopite30)also got a steady 110MPH out of his TDR250 for a good stretch of the autoroute on the std fuel and was shown less mercy every where else...
Keep calm & carry on Captain Mainwaring...OK, that's good to hear,.....so the owners who have reported having problems, what is the root cause do you think? If it is due to the ethanol being present in petrol, is it just down to lack of use/the petrol going 'off'?
|
|
|
Post by donkeychomp on Oct 4, 2019 23:03:26 GMT 1
That's what I reckon the problem is or people putting classic cars and bikes into hibernation without draining the fuel off...
Alex
|
|
|
Post by icarus001 on Oct 5, 2019 4:53:27 GMT 1
Rubbish.. Its been that way for a few years now.never been a problem with any of my bikes and Haggler (Pete) has been to Germany this year on his GT750, maybe twice(?).. We was in France in June of this year for the D Day commemorations and there was some VERY old 2 and 4 stroke bikes and petrol vehicles filling up, many of them rode and drove down to Normandy from the UK and further afield. Mike (kopite30)also got a steady 110MPH out of his TDR250 for a good stretch of the autoroute on the std fuel and was shown less mercy every where else... I don't think anyone is claiming that you can't go fast on it. The problem is that the ethanol attacks certain parts of the bike - there are proven documented cases of plastic tanks being damaged, not to mention fibreglass ones. My TDR ran on 10% perfectly fine, never noticed an issue. Then I parked it up for 3 months and the carbs were so gummed up with cack that I had to run them through the ultrasonic cleaner multiple times to clear it all out. It was the foulest smelling nasty crap that I've ever seen, plus the brass parts had been attacked by it and there was green corrosion in there - I've seen similar in factory machines when they were run on a particular type of oil, it attacked non ferrous metal and caused lots of problems, the oil company denied it but we were a huge multinational and got experts in to prove that was the issue, and in the end we got a pay out. I run a 1936 bike on normal 'super' pump fuel and I've had no issues, but it definitely attacks plastics and other parts, I was using an old fuel pipe and I had to change it because it was actually melting the plastic.
|
|
|
Post by stusco on Oct 5, 2019 8:12:44 GMT 1
Itdefinitely destroys fuel hose I’ve changed the stuff (8mm) on my pc twice this year for it splitting and a mate came round with his zrx1100 when his split
|
|
|
Post by copper99 on Oct 5, 2019 9:38:33 GMT 1
Rubbish.. Its been that way for a few years now.never been a problem with any of my bikes and Haggler (Pete) has been to Germany this year on his GT750, maybe twice(?).. We was in France in June of this year for the D Day commemorations and there was some VERY old 2 and 4 stroke bikes and petrol vehicles filling up, many of them rode and drove down to Normandy from the UK and further afield. Mike (kopite30)also got a steady 110MPH out of his TDR250 for a good stretch of the autoroute on the std fuel and was shown less mercy every where else... I don't think anyone is claiming that you can't go fast on it. . I think some people believe, mainly via threads like this, that its inferior in every respect and thats not the case. In the real world , its fine, if you want to lay your bike up for a good period of time, drain it, as per the original guidance Yamaha advised in the owners manual when your bike was new....nothings changes on that front. Maybe im lucky but ive changed one length of fuel line in 8 years on one bike...ive changed many more expensive parts and rebuilt engines more often than that! Its an issue but next to all the other niggles / expense of owning a classic bike, its a very minor one IMHO blown out of all proportion..
|
|
|
Post by icarus001 on Oct 5, 2019 11:08:18 GMT 1
I think some people believe, mainly via threads like this, that its inferior in every respect and thats not the case. In the real world , its fine, if you want to lay your bike up for a good period of time, drain it, as per the original guidance Yamaha advised in the owners manual when your bike was new....nothings changes on that front. Maybe im lucky but ive changed one length of fuel line in 8 years on one bike...ive changed many more expensive parts and rebuilt engines more often than that! Its an issue but next to all the other niggles / expense of owning a classic bike, its a very minor one IMHO blown out of all proportion.. In terms of a fuel for 1980's two strokes it is inferior in every respect to the fuel that the bikes were actually designed to run on. Whether it causes problems depends on the materials in your bike and how you use it. Personally I found it attacked the carbs, the fuel line, and I blame it for knackering my fuel tap seals. It's not the end of the world, and for me it's simply just a nuisance, but it's a fact that it can attack materials in the fuel system, it may make the engine run hotter, etc. I'm struggling to understand why you've taken a defensive position on it, I don't see any engineering advantages to advocating it's use.
|
|
|
Post by earthman on Oct 5, 2019 20:09:56 GMT 1
I think some people believe, mainly via threads like this, that its inferior in every respect and thats not the case. In the real world , its fine, if you want to lay your bike up for a good period of time, drain it, as per the original guidance Yamaha advised in the owners manual when your bike was new....nothings changes on that front. Maybe im lucky but ive changed one length of fuel line in 8 years on one bike...ive changed many more expensive parts and rebuilt engines more often than that! Its an issue but next to all the other niggles / expense of owning a classic bike, its a very minor one IMHO blown out of all proportion.. In terms of a fuel for 1980's two strokes it is inferior in every respect to the fuel that the bikes were actually designed to run on. Whether it causes problems depends on the materials in your bike and how you use it. Personally I found it attacked the carbs, the fuel line, and I blame it for knackering my fuel tap seals. It's not the end of the world, and for me it's simply just a nuisance, but it's a fact that it can attack materials in the fuel system, it may make the engine run hotter, etc. I'm struggling to understand why you've taken a defensive position on it, I don't see any engineering advantages to advocating it's use. On the aspect of it attacking fuel lines etc, how long did it take in your case? Going by this 3 month test, fuel pipe shown at 5.10, sounds like it's just been cleaned??
|
|
|
Post by icarus001 on Oct 6, 2019 2:57:31 GMT 1
Going by this 3 month test, fuel pipe shown at 5.10, sounds like it's just been cleaned?? How is keeping pure ethanol in air-tight sealed jars in any way comparable to having E10 fuel sat in a carb or fuel tank? Did anyone do science as an 11yr old - you know the experiment you do when you leave a piece of iron in jars and you work out whether it's salt, oxygen or water that makes things rust - or....maybe....it's a combination of things that react together. All he needed to do was put a litre of E10 in a 30yr old metal petrol tank, with an open vent, with some 30yr old carb bits and fuel line, leave it in a damp shed in a UK winter, and then come back when it's all evaporated and see what's left. Gawd bless me if he wouldn't have found some crap left over as sludge and deposits due to the reaction between all the elements together. It's unrelated but we had algae growing in diesel tanks for standby generators and had to filter thousands of gallons of it across hospital estates, the expert that came in from one of the fuel companies gave us a talk on fuel storage and he stated that ethanol was an issue because of the way it attracts moisture, which combined with high oxygen content and impurities (i.e. dirt in old systems) will cause problems. As for the corrosive effects on fuel pipe, etc, I don't know, I'm not an expert, but maybe it's a reaction as well, maybe it's something else in the fuel, all I know is I only noticed it since I had to use ethanol fuel mixes.
|
|
|
Post by earthman on Oct 6, 2019 9:16:35 GMT 1
Going by this 3 month test, fuel pipe shown at 5.10, sounds like it's just been cleaned?? How is keeping pure ethanol in air-tight sealed jars in any way comparable to having E10 fuel sat in a carb or fuel tank? Did anyone do science as an 11yr old - you know the experiment you do when you leave a piece of iron in jars and you work out whether it's salt, oxygen or water that makes things rust - or....maybe....it's a combination of things that react together. All he needed to do was put a litre of E10 in a 30yr old metal petrol tank, with an open vent, with some 30yr old carb bits and fuel line, leave it in a damp shed in a UK winter, and then come back when it's all evaporated and see what's left. Gawd bless me if he wouldn't have found some crap left over as sludge and deposits due to the reaction between all the elements together. It's unrelated but we had algae growing in diesel tanks for standby generators and had to filter thousands of gallons of it across hospital estates, the expert that came in from one of the fuel companies gave us a talk on fuel storage and he stated that ethanol was an issue because of the way it attracts moisture, which combined with high oxygen content and impurities (i.e. dirt in old systems) will cause problems. As for the corrosive effects on fuel pipe, etc, I don't know, I'm not an expert, but maybe it's a reaction as well, maybe it's something else in the fuel, all I know is I only noticed it since I had to use ethanol fuel mixes. Aye, I would have liked to have seen him done a few things differently, using petrol from a pump would be a start. And like you say, letting air get to it must be a big factor.
|
|
|
Post by midlifecrisisrd on Oct 6, 2019 10:30:52 GMT 1
I think the only thing ethanol will attack is certain types of hose and seals
Proven by tank liner manufacturers changing products to suit ethanol
The rest is water absorption
Modern vehicles have sealed fuel systems to stop fuel vapour polution
Our bikes have open vented tanks and float bowls open to the air
Absorbs water then splits over time causing the water to separate and cause damage
Leave an old carb sitting in a bucket of water for six months then look at the state of it
Still can't believe the fuel companies aren't jumping on the bandwagon
They punt their "super" fuels for performance (barely) and keeping internals clean ( yeah like that's a problem on a modern engine) but forget there is no legal requirement to put ethanol in fuel so why not market it for classic and carburetor fueled vehicles
Missing a marketing trick maybe
Steve
|
|
|
Post by steve h on Oct 6, 2019 12:24:51 GMT 1
For me the issue is ethics. No not that place down south that sounds like Sussex, when there are thousands starving in the world so much land is devoted to growing crops to make bio fuel. Just look at all the fields of yellow.. that's oilseed rape for bio diesel and they can grow that on set aside land under eu rules.. That's green eh?. And all the fertilizer and its production (chemically) has an un green cumulative effect, which is something else "they" keep quiet about. Never hear anyone banging on about that do we. And to get ethanol you have to brew it ..that produces C02...oh dear.. don't look so green now. (and don't forget the pesticides) www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/aug/16/high-pesticide-levels-on-oilseed-crops-harm-wild-bees-scientists-proveDon't think its a problem in std motors just a bit of a pain with some fuel systems which ain't un surmountable..
|
|
|
Post by icarus001 on Oct 6, 2019 12:50:20 GMT 1
I think the only thing ethanol will attack is certain types of hose and seals And if you combine that with a load of nasty crud left over after evaporation then that’s enough to really ruin your day when you pull the bike out after winter. Knackered fuel tap and blocked carbs is a right old faff and skinned knuckles. I remember finding an old bike in a barn years ago and it fired up after a load of kicking, it must have been sat there for years - pretty much everything else had perished except the fuel system! These days my TDR packs up if I leave it for more than a few weeks with fuel in it. And the ZXR H1 wouldn’t start for love nor money after a couple of months, that was a massive pain to clean out.
|
|
|
Post by donkeychomp on Oct 6, 2019 21:58:02 GMT 1
So why are they adding Etahanol? Seems moronic no matter how you look at it.
Alex
|
|
|
Post by copper99 on Oct 7, 2019 20:20:06 GMT 1
I think some people believe, mainly via threads like this, that its inferior in every respect and thats not the case. In the real world , its fine, if you want to lay your bike up for a good period of time, drain it, as per the original guidance Yamaha advised in the owners manual when your bike was new....nothings changes on that front. Maybe im lucky but ive changed one length of fuel line in 8 years on one bike...ive changed many more expensive parts and rebuilt engines more often than that! Its an issue but next to all the other niggles / expense of owning a classic bike, its a very minor one IMHO blown out of all proportion.. In terms of a fuel for 1980's two strokes it is inferior in every respect to the fuel that the bikes were actually designed to run on. Whether it causes problems depends on the materials in your bike and how you use it. Personally I found it attacked the carbs, the fuel line, and I blame it for knackering my fuel tap seals. It's not the end of the world, and for me it's simply just a nuisance, but it's a fact that it can attack materials in the fuel system, it may make the engine run hotter, etc. I'm struggling to understand why you've taken a defensive position on it, I don't see any engineering advantages to advocating it's use. Ive re-read what ive written and cant see that ive advocated its use, just stated that day to day, its not really an issue for running something like a std LC but people do read threads like this and as soon as they have a running issue ( as per the start of this thread), look to the cause as perhaps being "modern" fuel . If you incorrectly believe your running issues are down to modern fuel, that's far more than a "just" a nuisance. Leaving a vehicle sitting with fuel of it from any era isnt a wise move, which is why back when your bike was new, Yamaha asked you to drain the fuel system if you was laying the bike up and provided handy drain screws on the carb bowls to aid the process. The comment above regards ethanol affecting fuel tanks relates to Ducati and Triumph and is many years old, well before E10 and largely down to poor manufacture by Acerbis but people will read that and think its a.nother recent issue from this new fangled fuel. Others it would appear dare not ride further than the range of their nearest Esso garage, let alone the continent and if they did, the engine will run hotter, another fairly new component to add to the fear. Well if it does run hotter, I can tell you an LC temp gauge cant measure the difference tween any of the fuels ive used in it home and abroad at higher temps than we recorded this Summer. You know, maybe your right, modern fuel does need defending! From my and my friends that RIDE their bikes regularly, the reality is, it's not really so much as an issue as these fairly frequent threads on the subject would have many people believe.
|
|
|
Post by bezzer on Oct 7, 2019 21:35:29 GMT 1
I’ve got an old 20l jerrycan I’ve stored the old petrol I’ve drained from tanks until I can get rid of it ,and it’s rotted through and now leaking so I’ve had decant it into plastic containers,I still can’t find anywhere legal to get rid of the petrol Makes great weed killer stusco 👍🏻
|
|