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Post by jon on Aug 5, 2019 21:03:23 GMT 1
Didn't want to worry you mate ! The 400 I did years ago is still running now with no issues if that helps😉 We got away with loads of things back then, but if there is a safer way of doing it then that's gotta be better. Get a rotor holding tool if you dont already have one, they are cheap and perfect for the job. If you can balance the forces each side when tightening the nuts it will be safer😉 Dusty👍 I wouldn’t recommend a rotor holding tool to hold the rotor whilst tightening up the primary drive as shown in the photo. You still risk twisting the crank. Risk is doubled as it could be either web. The clutch holding tool that oldbritguy has is the thing to use for this. The rotor tool is to do the rotor nut up. Jon
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Post by oldbritguy on Aug 6, 2019 0:30:58 GMT 1
Once again many thanks to everyone for their comments of support and words of wisdom as I slowly put this mis matched jigsaw puzzle together. Absolutely keeps the motivation up there. A bit more work on the bottom end saw a few more bits disappear from the parts box. Fitted the neutral switch with a new o-ring and some new screws and a bit of grease to ensure it went into place nicely, and put the gearbox sprocket, locktab and nut on finger tight. I will wait until I get the thing up on its wheels with chain fitted before i fully tighten it up. The stator is the one I asked about a while ago which consensus of opinion determined it was from an F2 model which is fine as I have a matching rotor and ignitec unit up top. Just need to change the plugs to fit into the LC2 loom. New bolts and plate washers were used to fix it onto the crankcases. Once everything was on nice and tight and straight, the rotor went on. Realised at this point it would have been easier to fit the woodruff key before fitting the stator as it is tucked in well out the way but a bit of patience in it went. Torqued up as per manual and then it was time to fit a new seal on the gear shaft. I fitted a new sleeve bush while the cases were apart and a new shaft so we should not have any leaks from here once running. A bit of tape over the splines , some grease on the shaft and seal and it it went straight in And that is this side finished for now. Next is the newly rebored top end John
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Post by oldbritguy on Aug 6, 2019 14:03:57 GMT 1
Just fitted the barrels and pistons and tightened everything up. Fitted the connecting piece between the power valve then hit a snag. The operation of the valves is now very tight and is sticking at the point where the PV is in the closed position shown in picture. When I disconnected the joint piece the LH valve is dragging and the RH is nice and smooth. Barrels back off by the look of it and Check the PV. Incidentally this is a set of used valves fitted with new bushes. I used some threebond on the base gaskets as well so a bit hacked off
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Post by midlifecrisisrd on Aug 6, 2019 14:46:40 GMT 1
Try taking the joint off, rotate the joint 180 degrees so what was to the left is now to the right and try again
Unfortunately another piece of advice is no sealant on base gaskets.
Only fit the base bolts finger tight before fitting and torquing the head, then tighten the base bolts.
Helps the head seal
Steve
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Post by oldbritguy on Aug 6, 2019 15:14:32 GMT 1
Try taking the joint off, rotate the joint 180 degrees so what was to the left is now to the right and try again Unfortunately another piece of advice is no sealant on base gaskets. Only fit the base bolts finger tight before fitting and torquing the head, then tighten the base bolts. Helps the head seal Steve Cheers Steve Tried that but no difference. Pulled the barrel back off and took the valve out for a look. The valve has definitely been rubbing on the tunnel and has witness marks to that effect I also noticed that the groove in the centre has been rubbed almost flat in the centre compared with the valve in the other cylinder which is making me think that this has been a problem in the past. As I said, these were a pair of used valves I picked up a while ago so I have no knowledge of their history or even if they are a genuine matched pair. Gonna bite the bullet and order a new set (and new base gaskets as well with no sealant lol) John
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Post by midlifecrisisrd on Aug 6, 2019 15:32:08 GMT 1
Probably best to get a new pair
The other problem is the 2 halves of the valves are matched as they are machined together
I've seen loads that don't line up correctly
Steve
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Post by oldbritguy on Aug 8, 2019 23:40:57 GMT 1
Progress on the motor has temporarily halted while waiting for new power valves arrive so I took a good look at the carbs. A good used set were sourced from a forum member but was advised they had been on a disused bike for a long time and would need a good clean out. I borrowed a small ultrasonic cleaner which was just big enough to fit a single carb body but In my haste I forgot to take some pics before I started. However took a few as I was working away. First thing was to strip the carbs completely down and see how they looked inside. All the removable bits were taken off/out and when I pulled the emulsion tube/needle jet out, I found this. After seeing this it was time to get the brass balls out. A sharp centre punch to start off and a small 1.5mm drill bit (cheapo Toolstation cobalt bit) and careful progress with a cordless drill/driver, I drilled a small hole about 2.5mm deep. Using a bit of tape as a depth gauge on the bit. Then flipped the drill bit around and used the plain end into the hole and wiggled the brass ball out. I have to thank Shaunthe2nd for this as I read one of his earlier threads on the aircooled forum which simplified things big time. Just as well because the airway behind the ball was totally blocked Into the ultrasonic for a while and a bit of work with some cotton buds and one of those little dental floss plastic pick things and it was clean as a whistle. New needle jet fitted, main jet, float needle and body and it was time to get the floats back in Float height set at 21mm which was the same with the carb body canted so the float just closed and also held level. Must be because of the brand new float needle valve with a new tight spring. Brass ball got cleaned up and tapped back into place with a tiny bit of epoxy just to ensure it was sealed around the edge. Pre drilled for the next time they need to be removed for cleaning as I ain't got the bottle to tap the carb body and fit grub screws as some folk have done. Then it was everything else back together and ready to repeat with the other one I think I will do the forks next. John
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Post by oldbritguy on Aug 9, 2019 16:43:14 GMT 1
Quick day today. Just finished up the wheels. New wheel bearings, grease seals and discs bolted back on with shiny re-plated bolts. New sprocket and cush rubbers topped off with a new pair of boots from Norbo Ready to fit back on now John
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mt
Thrash Merchant
Posts: 489
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Post by mt on Aug 9, 2019 17:21:21 GMT 1
Progress on the motor has temporarily halted while waiting for new power valves arrive so I took a good look at the carbs. A good used set were sourced from a forum member but was advised they had been on a disused bike for a long time and would need a good clean out. I borrowed a small ultrasonic cleaner which was just big enough to fit a single carb body but In my haste I forgot to take some pics before I started. However took a few as I was working away. First thing was to strip the carbs completely down and see how they looked inside. All the removable bits were taken off/out and when I pulled the emulsion tube/needle jet out, I found this. After seeing this it was time to get the brass balls out. A sharp centre punch to start off and a small 1.5mm drill bit (cheapo Toolstation cobalt bit) and careful progress with a cordless drill/driver, I drilled a small hole about 2.5mm deep. Using a bit of tape as a depth gauge on the bit. Then flipped the drill bit around and used the plain end into the hole and wiggled the brass ball out. I have to thank Shaunthe2nd for this as I read one of his earlier threads on the aircooled forum which simplified things big time. Just as well because the airway behind the ball was totally blocked Into the ultrasonic for a while and a bit of work with some cotton buds and one of those little dental floss plastic pick things and it was clean as a whistle. New needle jet fitted, main jet, float needle and body and it was time to get the floats back in Float height set at 21mm which was the same with the carb body canted so the float just closed and also held level. Must be because of the brand new float needle valve with a new tight spring. Brass ball got cleaned up and tapped back into place with a tiny bit of epoxy just to ensure it was sealed around the edge. Pre drilled for the next time they need to be removed for cleaning as I ain't got the bottle to tap the carb body and fit grub screws as some folk have done. Then it was everything else back together and ready to repeat with the other one I think I will do the forks next. John They don't look that bad Mine were like this 004 by Gary Woodward, on Flickr And amazingly it ran
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Post by oldbritguy on Aug 10, 2019 1:06:24 GMT 1
Wow! Now that is what I call proper furred up and yes, a real surprise that it still ran. I'll bet it was "ruff as" though lol John
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Post by Yogi on Aug 10, 2019 8:18:07 GMT 1
Wow! Now that is what I call proper furred up and yes, a real surprise that it still ran. I'll bet it was "ruff as" though lol John Looks more like a baffle 🤣 Nice job on the carbs Johnnyboy 👍
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Post by oldbritguy on Aug 10, 2019 22:36:03 GMT 1
Took advantage of a break in the weather today and dragged the frame out into the garden and got the swingarm back on. That is a bit of a faff is it not lining everything up and getting those bolts in. Gimme a standard twin shock set up anytime lol. Was lucky enough to pick up an almost new YSS shock from marsbar350 which will hopefully sort out the bouncy back end. Cheers bud! Fitting the bottom mount into the H link, there was absolutely no clearance to fit the thrust washers with the grease seals on the sides of the shock bush. I tried every way possible but no chance. The bottom mount has a couple of o-rings for retaining the grease but that seems to be it. Has anyone else had this when fitting one of these shocks or is it the way they go in? Everything is on hand tight so no problem pulling it apart again if I need to change anything John
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Post by midlifecrisisrd on Aug 11, 2019 18:10:00 GMT 1
Looking good
On the yss shock you don't use the thrust washers. They are only there to keep the grease in the shock bush
Steve
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Post by donkeychomp on Aug 11, 2019 22:27:42 GMT 1
That looks really good!
Alex
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Post by oldbritguy on Aug 12, 2019 23:41:12 GMT 1
That looks really good! Alex Cheers Alex Quite pleased with things myself though I wish I could pick the pace up a bit. Family stuff keeping me out of the shed duhhh! John
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Post by oldbritguy on Aug 12, 2019 23:44:33 GMT 1
Looking good On the yss shock you don't use the thrust washers. They are only there to keep the grease in the shock bush Steve Cheers Steve That is the news I wanted to hear. I can now tighten the back end up and get the thing up on it's wheels John
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Post by oldbritguy on Aug 12, 2019 23:55:09 GMT 1
Another small step forward today Fitted a new set of tapered steering head bearings and got the bottom yoke into place. The bearing cover and nut were a bit chewed so fitted new shiny ones while I was at it. Then fitted the top yoke Now if the effing rain will stay off for 10 minutes I might be able to get a bit more done John
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Post by panzermatt on Aug 13, 2019 16:47:26 GMT 1
when i fit my taper bearings it made the top yoke taller if you get my drift by about 1mm, so when fitting the nose cone bracket you need to put a washer under where it bolts to the top yoke. if you get my drift.
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Post by oldbritguy on Aug 13, 2019 19:49:59 GMT 1
Thanks Herr Panzermatt
I thought the top bearing sat a little higher in the headstock when I fitted it so as you say the top yoke will also sit a little higher too. The bottom bearing was quite recessed though.
The nose cone bracket has been repaired and welded (not as tidy as yours though if I remember correctly) so I was anticipating having to either elongate the holes at the bottom yoke pinch bolts, or as you suggest use a couple of washers as spacers at the top.
I should be fitting the front end together within the next week so I will find out then just how far off it is.
Cheers for the tip
John
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Post by panzermatt on Aug 13, 2019 20:45:42 GMT 1
danke john, I only copped this after fitting it and when tightening the top 2 bolts, it seemd to pull the bracket down and slightly out of shape. so i spent a rather frustrating hour trying to line the washers up. fiddly to say the least
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Post by oldbritguy on Aug 14, 2019 0:40:04 GMT 1
Postie arrived this morning with new powervalves from Norbo's shoppe! Got them greased up and fitted into the barrels and hey presto - no more dragging. Lesson learned, be very careful and picky when buying used parts of unknown history. New base gaskets and the cylinders are back on. No sealant and nuts run up hand tight this time until the head is back on and torqued. Jointing piece fitted between the valves and all in nice and smooth. Was a little worried after torquing up the primary gear as per the Haynes manual method so got the dial gauge and timing disc to check the crank had not twisted. Seeing as I have fitted an F2 stator with later flywheel onto the 31k motor, I reckoned I should check the ignition timing marks while I was at it. All appears nice and straight. Both sides coming to TDC 180 deg apart and lining up with a true TDC so no twisting of the crank. Happy days! Using the dial gauge I have got static timing marks lining up at between 1.8mm and 2mm before TDC and the magnet just coming off the pick up, but this got me thinking. I found true TDC using the piston stop method and the disc, but when using the dial gauge at TDC there is a slight dwell on the gauge as the crank turns over at top. It is only very slight about 1-2 degrees but had me thinking that this will slightly affect a reading of 2mm before TDC when the gauge will register a stop when the piston stops moving but the crank will actually be still turning not quite at TDC just yet. It will only be by a small amount say 1-2 degrees but got me thinking. Does this make sense ? Probably being too anal and drinking too much coffee while working but thought I would share the thoughts of the day. I need to get out more often. John
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Post by oldbritguy on Aug 14, 2019 23:13:40 GMT 1
Last week I also made a start on the front forks. Just wanted to get them stripped, check everything inside was in serviceable order and fit new seals while I was at it. Having received this bike in a mis matched pile of bits I had to hunt through various manuals and threads on this forum to identify which forks I actually had. Turns out they are later types and not early LC2. First job was to crack the bottom bolt holding the damper in place. Straight forward enough while the spring was still fitted inside the fork and using an allen key with a socket and short extension bar. Held the fork upside down in the vice using a bit of rubber mat, gave it a sharp tap and away it went. Next was to get the top plug out and remove the spring. I made a tool up using a spare bottom yoke I had lying about, an old steel exhaust clamp (Triumph T120), a bit of flat steel bar as a lever and a deep socket. I connected the socket to the steel lever using a spare rear brake fork with a clevis pin and pressed the plug down to remove the circlip. Then it was just a case of pulling everything apart Repeat for the other leg, clean and ready for rebuild.
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tlmark
Drag-strip hero
Posts: 203
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Post by tlmark on Aug 15, 2019 13:39:50 GMT 1
Oh, I like that spring compressor what great idea! when I fitted the new springs in my forks I really struggled the push them down and then fit the clip
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Post by Tobyjugs on Aug 15, 2019 15:19:17 GMT 1
Using the dial gauge I have got static timing marks lining up at between 1.8mm and 2mm before TDC and the magnet just coming off the pick up, but this got me thinking. I found true TDC using the piston stop method and the disc, but when using the dial gauge at TDC there is a slight dwell on the gauge as the crank turns over at top. It is only very slight about 1-2 degrees but had me thinking that this will slightly affect a reading of 2mm before TDC when the gauge will register a stop when the piston stops moving but the crank will actually be still turning not quite at TDC just yet. It will only be by a small amount say 1-2 degrees but got me thinking. Does this make sense ? Probably being too anal and drinking too much coffee while working but thought I would share the thoughts of the day. I need to get out more often. John Hi John you are correct about that fuzzy bit of movement at TDC when checking with a DTI on the piston. How ever your fly wheel has a mark on it and it is lined up in the correct position to the crankshaft with the woodruf key. If the two slots on the fly wheel and the crank taper are good your fly wheel will be in the correct position. Using your DTI you can measure the distance needed which will always be the same and because your fly wheel is fixed in the pre-determined position you only need to adjust the timing of the pick up by moving it clockwise or anticlockwise to to line the marks up(not the fly wheel). It is the job of the tapers to keep the flywheel in place and to stop it from turning.
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Post by Tobyjugs on Aug 15, 2019 15:22:41 GMT 1
Last week I also made a start on the front forks. Just wanted to get them stripped, check everything inside was in serviceable order and fit new seals while I was at it. Having received this bike in a mis matched pile of bits I had to hunt through various manuals and threads on this forum to identify which forks I actually had. Turns out they are later types and not early LC2. First job was to crack the bottom bolt holding the damper in place. Straight forward enough while the spring was still fitted inside the fork and using an allen key with a socket and short extension bar. Held the fork upside down in the vice using a bit of rubber mat, gave it a sharp tap and away it went. Next was to get the top plug out and remove the spring. I made a tool up using a spare bottom yoke I had lying about, an old steel exhaust clamp (Triumph T120), a bit of flat steel bar as a lever and a deep socket. I connected the socket to the steel lever using a spare rear brake fork with a clevis pin and pressed the plug down to remove the circlip. Then it was just a case of pulling everything apart Repeat for the other leg, clean and ready for rebuild. Simple ideas are always the best
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Post by oldbritguy on Aug 15, 2019 23:33:37 GMT 1
Oh, I like that spring compressor what great idea! when I fitted the new springs in my forks I really struggled the push them down and then fit the clip Thanks Timark I was quite pleased with how effective this simple home made tool was. Worked fine with the forks off the bike but would probably be a bit awkward with the forks fitted. I would probably need to remove the handlebars and drop the forks through the yoke, but it was useful in this instance. Yam probably have a proper (probably quite expensive for a one off use) tool for it and a few guys on the forum have also come up with some ingenious simple tools for similar tricky jobs. You will come across them in some of the excellent rebuild threads Hopefully it will help someone else when doing their own forks John
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Post by oldbritguy on Aug 15, 2019 23:58:35 GMT 1
Using the dial gauge I have got static timing marks lining up at between 1.8mm and 2mm before TDC and the magnet just coming off the pick up, but this got me thinking. I found true TDC using the piston stop method and the disc, but when using the dial gauge at TDC there is a slight dwell on the gauge as the crank turns over at top. It is only very slight about 1-2 degrees but had me thinking that this will slightly affect a reading of 2mm before TDC when the gauge will register a stop when the piston stops moving but the crank will actually be still turning not quite at TDC just yet. It will only be by a small amount say 1-2 degrees but got me thinking. Does this make sense ? Probably being too anal and drinking too much coffee while working but thought I would share the thoughts of the day. I need to get out more often. John Hi John you are correct about that fuzzy bit of movement at TDC when checking with a DTI on the piston. How ever your fly wheel has a mark on it and it is lined up in the correct position to the crankshaft with the woodruf key. If the two slots on the fly wheel and the crank taper are good your fly wheel will be in the correct position. Using your DTI you can measure the distance needed which will always be the same and because your fly wheel is fixed in the pre-determined position you only need to adjust the timing of the pick up by moving it clockwise or anticlockwise to to line the marks up(not the fly wheel). It is the job of the tapers to keep the flywheel in place and to stop it from turning. Yeah Tobyjugs, that is exactly what I thought. When I started building this motor, I did not initially have any of the ignition components and picked up the stator and rotor from separate sources. I used what equipment I already had (disc and DTI) to physically check the timing components were lining up correctly and also compare with the fixed timing marks on the rotor and backplate. Everything lined up fine so I was happy with that. If I had to adjust the timing at all, I do not think it is possible with this set up as the stator mounting backplate has no adjustment feature i.e the fixing holes are not elongated and the small pickup is the same, fixed in a set position. And as you say the crank taper and woodruff key will lock the flywheel in position so it will not move either so adjusting the ignition timing will not be possible without altering the stator back plate. The question about the dwell at TDC using the DTI just had me thinking whether it would affect the actual timing or not but as the standard set up is in a fixed position then probably not. I will have to wait until I start the rebuilt motor and check with the strobe to see if I need to make any changes, but I hope not. Cheers again for your wisdom John
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Post by oldbritguy on Aug 23, 2019 23:32:34 GMT 1
Fork rebuild time New bushes and seals went into the forks and they were bolted back together without any issues, and then it was time to size up the springs. Given these forks are almost 35 years old I decided to fit a set of Hagon progressive springs to give them a bit of a lift. I see there are mixed views by a few members on these springs but I decided to give them a go. First thing I noticed was they are a different length to standard springs 515mm compared to 415mm, 100mm longer. When placed in the fork tube, the spring protruded about 6mm above the top of the fork, and that is without the spacer tube ? The spacer tube is incidentally 100mm long. There was no way the spacer tube would fit back in so I gave Hagon a call as the provided fitting instruction stated to refit all spacers. Hagon were very helpful and said that if the spring projected above the fork leg then do not refit the spacer. Time to crack on. Spring back out then get some oil into the forks. Picked up a big plastic syringe from the local Hydroponics shop for £1 which was well handy for measuring the oil. F2 forks so according to Haynes 282cc of oil and measure an air gap of 128.7mm. I went for 129mm (what is 0.3mm between friends?). I pumped the forks in and out for a few minutes making sure the oil was completely through the damping mechanism parts before taking the final air gap measurement. Then it was spring back in, tight coils at the top Then washer on top New o-ring on top plug, a bit of grease then into the magic home made fork clamp thing! A wee screwdriver to ease the circlip back in and job done. New dust-caps over the seals and the forks are ready to go back on the bike.
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Post by dusty350 on Aug 24, 2019 7:32:24 GMT 1
Great job on the forks John I've had Hagon progressive springs in the past and they transformed the front end Dusty
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Post by oldbritguy on Aug 24, 2019 22:33:14 GMT 1
Sun was out today so the frame got dragged out of the hut so I could bolt a few more things on, starting with the forks. Then get the front wheel in Centre stand bolted up and it is time to get the back wheel in and we have a rolling chassis I stuck an old set of bars on so I can wheel it about and then the re-welded headlamp/fairing bracket just to make sure it still fitted. Headlight bracket needs a bit of fettling so it was back off and finally, i fitted the footrest hangers and then it was time to get back to my domestic chores. I know my place in the home lol Things are starting to move now at last.
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