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Post by dusty350 on Mar 26, 2018 7:49:57 GMT 1
Hi With my white Hybrid finished, and my orange Hybrid close to completion, I had started thinking about the next project. ReggiePerrin was selling a project bike he had bought from oldelsieboy - a project that I was really tempted to buy when oeb listed it originally. At that time I was still deep into building both the Lc's so passed on it, but now have a bit more time. There is a back story to this. Back in the 80's I had various aircooled Rd's - mainly 400's, and I had built a Café Racer style 400E which I loved; LastScan 7 by David Miller, on Flickr I sold it to a good friend of mine, who then sold it to his brother Ian, and he still has it. I had got Nigel Hill at Saxon Racing to Monoshock the frame which I then de lugged, Stan Stephens did the 430 conversion, I had the race seat modded with extra glass fibre that I then re shaped, and then fitted Pv wheels and forks' I always loved the blocky coffin tanks on the Rd's as they reminded me of the old Tz's a bit. I loved the idea of a pared down racer look a like, and that was as near as I could get at the time. I've built lots of different bikes since then, but I've never lost the urge for a café racer with a proper Tz tank, no side panels, minimal electrics hidden away as much as possible etc. So when Reggie decided to move this project on, I decided the time was right to scratch that Tz itch So, the project comprises an aircooled Rd frame with V5; 20180325_183813 by David Miller, on Flickr It's had a monoshock top mount welded in, and lots of standard bits cut off. It's missing the centre spar that the side stand bracket mounts too, so need to sort that, but it has had some mounting tubes welded on for an Lc rad. There are some mounting plates welded on in the seat area which could be useful for electrical gizmos. It will need a mount for the rear of the tank to fix to as well. This is the tank and seat unit; 20180323_170220 by David Miller, on Flickr I mentioned to Alex - Donkeychomp, about the project, and he very kindly donated a good standard Rd frame - cheers mate 20180325_183857 by David Miller, on Flickr I'm also going to borrow some Lc cases from Yamark to see whats needed to fit an Lc engine. I think the front mounts line up but the rear mounts will need work. Not sure on running gear yet. Lots to think about. Dusty
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Post by Tobyjugs on Mar 26, 2018 13:20:38 GMT 1
What are you thinking about engine wise?
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Post by oldelsieboy on Mar 26, 2018 13:34:17 GMT 1
Good to see you finally got it, I'm sure this time it will get finished.
Good luck Dusty, if you need any help/info just shout
OEB
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Post by reggieperrin on Mar 26, 2018 15:49:24 GMT 1
Much better that it goes somewhere that it'll get turned into a thing of beauty rather than sitting in my messy horde of bits and bobs...!! It would've had a tough life as a racer anyway.. Really pleased you bought it Dusty..
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Post by philmill on Mar 26, 2018 16:47:44 GMT 1
Sounds like an interesting project and if your previous builds are anything to go by it will be awesome, I watch with interest and probably jealousy...
Phil
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Post by Yogi on Mar 26, 2018 17:57:24 GMT 1
Get in there Dusty boy
Bookmarked for future enjoyment
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Post by jon on Mar 26, 2018 18:48:39 GMT 1
Dusty, going the wire wheel route?
I think it would look really good.
Jon
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Post by veg on Mar 26, 2018 19:21:28 GMT 1
This is your third in the time it has taken me to not yet finish my lc you sir are a b*****d . Looking forward to this I do like a good square tank. I was tempted when Nigel had this for sale and then thought nope why would I just add to the already over crowded state of my garage with another project that will take forever to get done. Good luck dusty
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Post by dusty350 on Mar 26, 2018 19:29:17 GMT 1
Cheers guys Just going to update the opening post as my pc was playing up this morning !! Dusty
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Post by dusty350 on Mar 26, 2018 21:23:16 GMT 1
Thanks guys I'm looking forward to planning what I want to do. I'm open to either an Lc engine or an aircooled, but I want to try Lc cases to see what's involved as I would probably prefer Lc. Not sure about running gear. I've got 35mm yokes with it but no forks yet. If I got F2 forks I could mount the Fzr clip ons above the yokes for a bit more comfort. I'm not planning on a proper Tz copy - more a bitza café racer with race tank and seat. I also did think about using the frame Alex gave me and utilising the twin shock mounts with piggyback shocks - another "look" I've always liked. The first job is to tidy the frame up a bit Dusty
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Post by donkeychomp on Mar 26, 2018 21:35:45 GMT 1
Well...a tricky one. First I'd work out what kind of budget you have for this. I say that as I'd be tempted to use both frames, have a twin shocker and a mono as well but yes that is going to double the costs, especially if both frames get an LC lump. So my personal preference would be use the twin shock frame...maybe re weld the rad lugs onto that. Get some tricksy piggy backs (Marzocchi springs to mind...pun intended) . But this is all down to you Dusty, your choice to make. That tank and seat though are SO cool! Alex
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Post by sbscnor on Mar 26, 2018 21:45:14 GMT 1
Dusty I bet your mind is doing 100MPH thinking of all the options open to you either way enjoy the build and keep us all posted and pics are COMPULSARY
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Post by dusty350 on Mar 27, 2018 8:33:23 GMT 1
Hi Yeah, my mind is full of ideas already, although I've pondered this sort of build for quite a few years now so in a way I feel I have a good idea of what I want. Running gear will be my biggest decision. Spokes or alloys ? If alloys - which ones ? The design of the frame and tank/seat suggest nothing too modern for the wheels, but I'm not ruling anything out. I do like the idea of a twin shock frame set up too. The modern piggyback shocks look quite trick. Metmachex do make an Rd400 box section swingarm ... I will clean up the mono frame for now and look at offering up the lc cases for fitment. I already have a standard Lc arm and shock so I can mock it up a bit more. The yokes are 35mm bottom pv, and 35mm top Fzr250 with Fzr clip ons. I have considered a 31k top yoke and straight bars - not sure how that would look ? As I say, it's not gonna be built as a true copy of a Tz, more a mix of parts that will hopefully look "right" and be a bit different. Also considering a day time Mot so no lights which equals minimal loom connections, although I'm not sure it would look right without a headlight ?? The marriage of tank and seat is the biggest hurdle to clear when building a café racer - in my opinion - and I feel that this has been sorted already. I had thought about taking the tank back to bare metal and polishing it, but I think a proper Tz white/red stripe is the way to go. The tank is lovely - bigger than I thought it was going to be which is great. It's beautifully made too. Not sure what era Tz it mimics - maybe even Td3 ? Any Tz owners here that would know ? It's certainly the type of tank I've always wanted, and it had to be alloy !! Budget at the moment is virtually zero. What funds I have left need to go towards finishing the orange hybrid, although that's virtually finished cost wise. Ian - who owns my old 400 has been asking to buy my white hybrid for a couple of years now. One in, one out..... Dusty
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Post by oldelsieboy on Mar 27, 2018 9:00:06 GMT 1
Both yokes, top & bottom are FZR250 2KR. They were fitted as they are wider than YPVS allowing the fitment of the spoked wheel & twin AP/Lockheed calipers. The lower frame spar rail was removed as it fouled the Gibson pipes I was aiming to fit. Not too sure of the history of the tank, the guy I bought it from did mention Maxton but cannot confirm this. I did a mock up with a headlight fitted which I thought look OK. The tank in the photo was sold to fund the red tank you now have. OEB
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Post by mouse on Mar 27, 2018 9:00:15 GMT 1
If anyone can!
Going to be a cracker Dusty!
Mouse
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Post by dusty350 on Mar 27, 2018 9:24:23 GMT 1
Hi Nigel, That's a great photo, thank you Helps a lot with deciding what looks good. Didn't realise both yokes were Fzr. Are those wheels Tz fitment ? Spokeys do look so right with the Tz bodywork and I would have to have twin discs up front as I like the balanced look. Weight saving isn't the highest of priorities for me !! And are they Lc2 forks ?? Hey Mouse - lots of ideas at the mo. Grinder may be deployed later !! Hope your knee is improving Dusty
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Post by oldelsieboy on Mar 27, 2018 9:47:05 GMT 1
Hi Nigel, That's a great photo, thank you Helps a lot with deciding what looks good. Didn't realise both yokes were Fzr. Are those wheels Tz fitment ? Spokeys do look so right with the Tz bodywork and I would have to have twin discs up front as I like the balanced look. Weight saving isn't the highest of priorities for me !! And are they Lc2 forks ?? Hey Mouse - lots of ideas at the mo. Grinder may be deployed later !! Hope your knee is improving Dusty IIRC the yokes are about 20-30mm wider than YPVS, needed the extra width to space the discs so the caliper bodies didn't interfere with the spokes. Front hub is XS650, rear drum AC RD. The forks are LC2 lowers fitted with later YPVS stanchions, longer to allow fitting clipons above yokes. OEB
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Post by dusty350 on Mar 27, 2018 10:52:27 GMT 1
Great info, cheers Nigel Dusty
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Post by wassy06 on Mar 27, 2018 13:38:58 GMT 1
Bloody hell man I need some motivation. Great project.
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Post by yamark on Mar 27, 2018 17:02:50 GMT 1
So glad you got this mate, you've told me for ages that you wanted a TZ style bike. Once the Dusty magic wand has been waved at the bike it will be spectacular
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Post by dusty350 on Mar 27, 2018 17:20:19 GMT 1
Cheers Mark😁 And thanks for the loan of the cases. Ive cleaned them up and put them in the frame. Pics will follow - just need to upload them. Nice to see you today. And thanks for the brew !
Dusty😁
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Post by dusty350 on Mar 27, 2018 20:58:57 GMT 1
Today I popped over to see Mark, who has kindly lent me some Lc cases so I can see what would be involved in fitting an Lc engine into the aircooled frame. I know it's been done before and I had read that the front mount isn't a big issue, but the rear mounts need re doing. Sure enough, with the Lc cases fitted you can see the issue; 20180327_164354 by David Miller, on Flickr Spacers would be required for the front and a larger diameter mounting bolt as the aircooled are quite skinny - there are 2 of them. The rear needs work. Engine is sat on the frame rails and the existing mounts wont allow it to be lifted; 20180327_164403 by David Miller, on Flickr 20180327_164345 by David Miller, on Flickr The frame mounts would need cutting out and 2 new mounts welded in - not a major job. Not something I will do yet until I know what engine would be used. The only definite at the mo is that I will be using the tank and seat. Everything else is fluid !! Dusty
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Post by donkeychomp on Mar 27, 2018 21:04:16 GMT 1
Loads of room in there Dusty!
Alex
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Post by dusty350 on Mar 27, 2018 21:10:02 GMT 1
Hi mate Yea - those fins on the aircooled motors need some room Dusty
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Post by budgie on Mar 27, 2018 21:29:39 GMT 1
Hi Dusty I am pretty much on a similar project, although mine is 250 A/C and destined for the track...just in the middle of first fit on fairings...
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Post by Tobyjugs on Mar 27, 2018 22:22:35 GMT 1
I really like the style in OEB's picture shame the TZ parts are so expensive
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Post by dusty350 on Mar 28, 2018 7:57:29 GMT 1
Bikes look great Budgie Yea, Tz parts are super expensive - glad I don't run an old race bike !! Thankfully I'm not following a rigid plan as to what parts will be used. It's planned as a café racer with a Tz tank and seat. Anything else is possible. I love the look of the spoked wheels and twin front discs that Nigel had, but a lot will depend on how easily available those parts are, and cost of course. This will be a slow build unless I sell another bike, so after an initial flurry of excitement, it will be become a back burner !! There is stuff I can do for free though, like tidying the frame up - great on a day like today where it's tipping it down outside ! And I cant really do anything else with the motor mounts until I know what motor I will end up fitting. Dusty
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Post by yamark on Mar 28, 2018 17:35:43 GMT 1
Dusty, I've got a set of YPVS rear engine mount brackets (the ones welded to the frame), that can be cut from a frame that a "very nice man", gave me
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Post by dusty350 on Mar 28, 2018 18:01:42 GMT 1
Hi Mark That could be useful although the Pv has a different type of mount I believe. There is a pic I found the other day of the conversion Yaddy did on the aircooled forum. I will track it down and post it on here to show what I mean. I wont rule out your kind offer yet though mate Thank you. Alex kindly dropped off a swingarm spindle today so I can offer up the Lc swingarm and shock now. Cheers Alex Dusty
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Post by yamark on Mar 28, 2018 18:25:15 GMT 1
I have the rear mounts still on the cross brace. This section has not been cut from the frame yet, so the whole tube could be "transplanted" to the A/C frame. That should sort your rear engine mount out.
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