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Post by headcoats on Sept 4, 2017 16:18:51 GMT 1
What are the pros and cons of fitting the Athena 400cc barrels ? Says it takes standard crank etc Will the stock YPVS reed blocks and rubbers fit and would PWK 28 carbs be OK to use Can you get the down pipe section to get welded to Lomas pipes etc
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Post by Mr Kipling on Sept 4, 2017 16:59:57 GMT 1
Most peeps will change the pistons for wiseco,s , ypvs reeds etc all fit , pwk,s will complement as for the exhaust part , av a word with mutts , sure he can help...
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Post by bare on Sept 4, 2017 17:28:07 GMT 1
Why Wisecos?? Good quality pistons with nice thin rings etc. But they Will Not tolerate ham handed use.. at all. Or they live up to their nick name : Seizecos
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Post by Mr Kipling on Sept 4, 2017 19:42:28 GMT 1
Granted Bare , if not allowed to warm properly.. Pro for the Athena,s used to be relatively cheap complete bolt on kit.. Con , nowadays prices are all over the shop .. unless like Bare u live in the states...
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Post by yazza54 on Sept 4, 2017 20:26:51 GMT 1
The wisecos are the best pistons, they are stronger which is important as the pistons cracking on the inlet bridges are not unheard of although that's more common on cheetahs with even bigger ports. Always best to let it warm up a bit before riding as they are forged but I sometimes just jump on it and baby it down the road until it's up to temp so I don't piss the neighbours off!
They are not common for seizing on the 68mm bore engines.
Personally though, I'd buy a cheetah cylinder not Athena
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Post by JonW on Sept 5, 2017 0:18:49 GMT 1
The seizing thing was more about bore clearance that was too slim for the expansion space needed for his type of piston. Warm up happens pretty quickly and these cyls are plated anyway which would help. When warm these engines rev up very quickly and give a great rush when ridden.
That said, I built my Athena when few had done so and there wasnt as much out there in the market, there are a lot more choices out there than Athena now and prices are all over as has been said, its still a well known and proven setup as a lot of us have them, but there are newer things out now which may be of more interest. Its not that Athena is bad, just that some of the new stuff might well be better for price vs performance.
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Post by yazza54 on Sept 5, 2017 6:39:32 GMT 1
Driveline cylinders look quite good
Athena are OK... depends what you want
For me I'd rather have a cheetah cub or serval monoblock cylinder. Cub is the high performance cylinder and serval is more for mid range so a similar performance level as standard to the Athena kit.
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Post by JonW on Sept 5, 2017 8:03:05 GMT 1
I agree with you, those Drivelines do look interesting.
One thing that always gets me is people seem to forget that if you want out n out power then while you can do better than standard cyls, naturally it will cost a bunch. People seem to think you can build an Athena with std carbs and pipes and get 80bhp at the wheel, you just cant. If you want power it will always cost in carbs, pipes, reeds, intake, ign etc etc.
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Post by Norbo on Sept 5, 2017 8:29:09 GMT 1
as above you can riun ypvs reed blocks but you will need 28mm carbs and you can mod race pipes with the slip on pice for the barrels thats not a problem . you can make them better by adding a zel and othet performance ad ons but frankly value for money yuo cant beet a standard set 28 carbs and the pipe headed mod and your away . The standard pistons are fine but for heavy use if your gowing to replace them id go forged
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Post by headcoats on Sept 5, 2017 8:40:06 GMT 1
That is why I'm asking ! Just looking at options but wanted some barrels to run with PWK 28 carbs, VForce,standard rubbers etc and around 70 bhp
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Post by Norbo on Sept 5, 2017 8:42:06 GMT 1
Then for your money the Athena kits are good value for money the only thing you'll need is to mad the flange for the barrels
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Post by headcoats on Sept 5, 2017 9:12:39 GMT 1
Anyone into flanges LOL
Does anyone make the connecting pipes I mean
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Post by tsa on Sept 5, 2017 10:13:27 GMT 1
Yep
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Post by headcoats on Sept 5, 2017 10:28:39 GMT 1
Even to Lomas pipes Kenneth
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Post by muttsnuts on Sept 5, 2017 10:44:33 GMT 1
If you're wanting 70bhp or thereabouts, its doable with Athena without too much trouble, 28mm carbs, Vforce reeds (good option), decent pipes with correct header fitting and ideally s programmable igntion and mid 70's is very achieveable.
I have done several bikes with that combo that are doing mid 70's without too much trouble, as far as I know all are running the standard Athena pistons as well (so 392cc),it is best if you let them warm up a bit first before giving it what for though, something to be mindful of
HTH
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Post by headcoats on Sept 5, 2017 11:10:35 GMT 1
All good info What about the plumbing side ? Does the Athena head need modding to fit the hoses ?
Pics would be nice
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Post by yazza54 on Sept 5, 2017 12:00:01 GMT 1
All good info What about the plumbing side ? Does the Athena head need modding to fit the hoses ?
Pics would be nice It's made for a banshee you'll have an outlet at the front of the head which I think jonw modified to a 90 degree upturned outlet. There is no thermostat but that's about it
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Post by yazza54 on Sept 5, 2017 12:00:59 GMT 1
I'm sure Jon put pics on his website
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Post by LC_BOTT on Sept 5, 2017 12:05:18 GMT 1
Anyone into flanges LOL Does anyone make the connecting pipes I mean I looked at getting some banshee pipes from the states, only cost about a tenner each, then get someone clever to chop the flanges and reweld. Didn't know Kenny etc could make some. Sounds a better idea.
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Post by jessy03 on Sept 5, 2017 12:09:22 GMT 1
Norbo sells billet heads with thermostat housing. Jess
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Post by yazza54 on Sept 5, 2017 12:21:33 GMT 1
Norbo sells billet heads with thermostat housing. Jess Yeah there's loads of bits and different options but that's the slippery slope we all fall foul of haha! Sounds like he just wants to use the basic kit.
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Post by JonW on Sept 5, 2017 13:20:01 GMT 1
Aint that the truth! haha... One day I reckon all the big bore guys will have a beer together and probably not say too many words, just nod sagey and smile knowing looks. lol
Yep pics of what I did on my web site, twas early days and there are plenty of pther options now, but yes you can build an athena with basic (some standard) bits and it be a powerful bike for not big coin, but if you want power... dig deeper... and thats not just with Athena, thats with anything and the sky is the limit. I wrote about some of that in my big bore primer as well and I reckon what I said is still relevant.
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Post by headcoats on Sept 5, 2017 19:06:02 GMT 1
On one of the Banshee forums I found this Not a fan at all but are his criticisms correct ?
the description of the piston is wrong they are NOT forged moly coated pistons, they ARE a o.e.m. style(68mm though) CAST piston with a cheap tin coating. the intakes are too short to accept a stock reed cage. the larger water jackets that are mentioned are actually to small to use a stock water jacket plug and the kit doesn't supply any plugs so theres no way to keep this cylinder from leaking. the left cylinder has egg shaped intake bolt holes with threads only on the top portion of the screw cavity, intake bolts will thread in by hand but id bet they would strip if a allen wrench was used and they were tighten. back to the bore and piston, because of the piston they use and the triple ports its going to be short circuiting like crazy. the stock looking head with domes looks pretty good except that the domes are different then pro-design,vitos,modquad,noss etc. etc., they were 24cc also. theres alot more i could say about these but i'll stop here, if you want to pm me we could talk more.
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Post by Norbo on Sept 6, 2017 7:52:34 GMT 1
I know a couple of people who just fitted lomas race pipes with the flange fitted and they seem to work well . trev has lomas pipes fitted to his Marlborough f2 special
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Post by headcoats on Sept 6, 2017 8:20:31 GMT 1
Do you have to cut down the Lomas pipes or does the flange just fit over the end to make the difference up ?
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Post by tsa on Sept 6, 2017 9:45:44 GMT 1
It's just an adapter from cylinder to exhaust pipe tuned length is 20mm longer so no major difference. All I need is the outer diameter of your pipes and I can knock you some up £60 inc postage in the UK
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Post by headcoats on Sept 6, 2017 9:58:31 GMT 1
Good stuff What are these "Serval" top ends then ? Who makes them etc ?
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Post by yazza54 on Sept 6, 2017 10:55:01 GMT 1
A serval is a CPI monoblock cylinder, basically a cheetah cub cylinder with lower port timing designed for mid range.
Can use standard reeds and 28mm carbs. Will be good for 70 odd hp and have plenty of grunt. Plus there's scope for porting in future to bring it nearer to cheetah cub specs.
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Post by LC_BOTT on Sept 6, 2017 11:02:07 GMT 1
I think the Serval/Cheetah barrels are the one-piece types as mentioned by Yazza. I didn't realise you can also get a standard 350 kit as well. oops too late, took too long to post
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Post by headcoats on Sept 6, 2017 11:31:16 GMT 1
Are these Serval motors for a stock crank though ?
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