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Post by steven on Jun 11, 2015 0:30:40 GMT 1
Hi, I recently got this Villiers 8C, 147 cc single cylinder 2 stroke engine. From what I read, the 8C was made from approx 1924-1939. As you can see, it has a deflector top piston, which I read was the norm...."back in the day." It has a "floating gudgeon pin" which is a sliding fit in the piston, and is free to float about, it has brass "buttons" on the ends of the gudgeon pin, so that if it floats over to the cylinder wall, the soft brass does not damage the cylinder wall.   steven.     |
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Post by Norbo on Jun 11, 2015 8:21:56 GMT 1
that's a new one on me and just as I was thinking id seen it all .
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Post by kostas on Jun 11, 2015 21:36:48 GMT 1
Piston crown is new to me also.
Floating pins with brass or ally plugs come standard to most of aviation 4 stroke piston engines.
Does this one run?
Kostas
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Post by arrow on Jun 11, 2015 21:51:22 GMT 1
Piston crown is new to me also. Floating pins with brass or ally plugs come standard to most of aviation 4 stroke piston engines. Does this one run? Kostas Similar to model aero engines, some use nylon plugs for the gudgion pin. |
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Post by steven on Jun 12, 2015 0:58:15 GMT 1
Piston crown is new to me also. Floating pins with brass or ally plugs come standard to most of aviation 4 stroke piston engines. Does this one run? Kostas Hi, Cheers for the info, I didnt know the same gudgeon pin or wrist pin set up was used in aero piston engines and model aero engines. iv seen these model aero i/c engines on ebay, but never played with one of them. No, this one does not run yet, but it will, they are very easy to work on, and plenty spares available. I stripped and cleaned it up tonight in my parts washer. I left the cast iron piston in a pot noodle tub full of vinegar over night, and it cleaned up not too bad for a piston that must be in the region of 70 ish - 90 ish years old ! steven.    |
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Post by kostas on Jun 12, 2015 19:28:01 GMT 1
Put a video up if you get it running
Kostas
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Post by steven on Jun 12, 2015 19:56:21 GMT 1
Hi Kostas, I will put a video up when i get it going. Here is a video of my 6C running i put on here a few weeks ago, the 6C was made from 1923-1924, and is only slightly different from the 8C, at a glance they look the same, but the mark number is cast into the cylinder. As you can see, the head and cylinder are one piece, no cylinder head as we know it. steven.  |
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Dave B
Drag-strip hero
Posts: 240 
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Post by Dave B on Jun 13, 2015 9:58:23 GMT 1
Villiers changed over to flat top pistons for their bike engines around 1940. The deflector type were used in non-bike engines for lawn mowers etc. for many years after that. Outboards made in the USA carried on with that design right up to the 1980s. The brass caps on the gudgeon pin are fine, as long as the ports in the cylinder are small and the pin does not pass over them.  This is the piston from my 1938 Francis Barnett. Note the copper strip instead of ring pins. Cheers Dave |
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Post by steven on Jun 14, 2015 2:07:54 GMT 1
Hi, Interesting, I have never seen the copper strip thing before. Here is my Mk 8C or VIII-C completely stripped down, no crank case seals, just phosphor bronze bushes, there is absolutely no play at all in the big end, wee end or main bearings. I will clean up the alloy crank cases as they clean up quite good. Need to borrow a hone off the correct size next week for the cylinder to remove the light surface rust, and make a crank case gasket and a base gasket for it. The bore is 55 mm and the stroke is 62 mm giving 147 cc. I read that Villiers bore and stroke were always done in milimeters/metric rather than inches/imperial, any idea why this might be ? steven.      |
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Dave B
Drag-strip hero
Posts: 240
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Post by Dave B on Jun 14, 2015 14:00:11 GMT 1
The earlest book I have on two stroke engines is from 1915. Bore and stroke is always given in mm. It may be that the original internal combustion engines all originated in Europe and would be in mm anyway. In the early days UK engine designers would be copying or buying in parts from the Continent. Don't forget that the very first Nortons were powered by Peugeot engines. We just continued the tradition here Books on Steam Engine, dating back fifty years before that. have all the measurements in Imperial units. Americans of course still give bore and stroke in inches and capacities in Cubic inches. But that confusion is nothing compared to what goes on with tyres, where we still quote the diameter in inches and the width in mm- all over the world! Cheers Dave The 250cc 14A from 1938 is not very different!  |
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Post by steven on Oct 16, 2015 9:04:18 GMT 1
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Post by steve h on Oct 16, 2015 13:37:14 GMT 1
Nice one steven!!  |
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Post by beardy on Oct 20, 2015 9:06:54 GMT 1
interesting stuff. never too many pics for me.
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gsexr
Thrash Merchant
Posts: 352
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Post by gsexr on Oct 20, 2015 16:45:10 GMT 1
Agree with the above, you can never have too many pictures
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Post by steven on Oct 31, 2015 15:09:17 GMT 1
...Hi, I was playing with some more Villiers 2 stroke engines last night. This one is another V1-C or 6 C which was made from 1922-1923. I had to remove the primary drive sprocket, and I used my home made puller which I have used a few times before. The sprocket is held on with nothing more than a taper, but it can be very tight, especially on an engine of this vintage. The past few times I have removed a drive sprocket, it has came off with a bang, so I decided to try and video it, the last pic should be a video of the drive sprocket jumping off. steven.     |
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Dave B
Drag-strip hero
Posts: 240
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Post by Dave B on Oct 31, 2015 15:45:36 GMT 1
It could be worse. This is the story of an RD 350LC flywheel and its adventures. It's one of the anecdotes in my book.
At one college where I worked, we had a very useful hydraulic puller, which greatly amplified the force applied to the centre bolt.
A student who had been struggling to remove the flywheel of a 350 LC with a conventional puller asked to borrow the hydraulic puller. There was a policy of not lending tools out, but in this case it was no problem because he had the engine in the back of his car in the college car park. We all adjourned to the car park and set up the puller on the engine, which was still in the back of the car. The flywheel showed no sign of moving. More force was applied, again without success. One more turn of the screw and there was a loud bang as the taper finally released. However the whole system now contained a lot of energy, and the flywheel and puller jumped up violently- straight through the tailgate window of the car!
Cheers
Dave
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Post by steven on Oct 31, 2015 16:03:24 GMT 1
Hi Dave,
I think we can all relate to story's of struggling with LC flywheels/rotors, better going through the tailgate than into someones face though !
So where is the link to your book ? What is your book about ? I have a few books about old engines, the best one I have found for Villiers stuff is "The Villiers Engine" by B.E. Browning.
steven.
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Post by arrow on Oct 31, 2015 18:04:34 GMT 1
Nice work.
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Dave B
Drag-strip hero
Posts: 240
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Post by Dave B on Nov 1, 2015 10:37:14 GMT 1
Hi Steven,
The book is due for publication in March next year, by Crowood Press.
It's called, "The Repair and Maintenance of Two Stroke Motorcycle Engines".
this is what's in it.
Two Stroke Motorcycle Engines
CONTENTS
Chapter One.
Introduction
Chapter Two
Pre-war Two-Strokes. Transport for the Working Man.
Example: - Francis Barnett 250 Seagull (Villiers XIVa)
Chapter Two.
The Post WW2 Era. British Two Stroke Twins
Example: - Greeves Sportsman (Villiers 2T)
Chapter Three.
A Radical Rethink from Italy, Part One:- Example: - Lambretta Li 125.
Chapter Four.
A Radical Rethink from Italy, Two: -
Example: -Vespa 90SS
Chapter Six. Race Developed!
Examples: - RD350LC, 250 YPVS (RZ250)
Chapter Seven.
Bigger Engines and More Cylinders.
Example: - Kawasaki S2, (350 Triple)
Chapter Eight.
The Last of the (Roadster) Line?
Example: - Aprilia RS125 (Rotax 122 engine)
Chapter Nine.
Off the Beaten Track. MX, Trial and Trail.
Example: - Kawasaki KMX 125.
Chapter Eleven.
Chapter Ten. On Track: - Popular Road Race Bikes.
Examples: - Honda RS125. Yamaha TZ350G
Chapter Eleven.
More Power. Modern approaches to two stroke tuning.
Chapter Twelve. Looking after a two-stroke.
Cheers.
Dave
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Dave B
Drag-strip hero
Posts: 240
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Post by Dave B on Nov 1, 2015 10:37:52 GMT 1
It's published in my real name, Dave Boothroyd.
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Post by steven on Nov 2, 2015 17:48:43 GMT 1
Hi Dave,
Thanks for the info, I will keep an eye out for your book when it comes out.
regards,
steven.
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Post by steven on Feb 9, 2016 1:11:58 GMT 1
Hi, I finally got round to getting the new bits for my Villiers 8C 2 stroke engine. New coil, condenser, points, plug and plug lead. Its not the correct carb, this is a carb off a 98cc Villiers from the 50,s. I made an adapter up to suit until I can source the correct carb for an 8C, its not the correct exhaust either, but it will do for now. The ignition timing for an 8C is given as 1/4" BTDC. (6.35mm) So I made a timing tool so I can set my ignition timing spot on using my AVO Meter, the ignition timing is fixed, and there is no advance or retard. I believe if this engine was used in a motorbike, there would be a cable and a lever on the handle bars to rotate the back-plate, to advance or retard the timing as required. You can set the ignition timing quite easily on these using the timing marks etc, but I just wanted an excuse to use my AVO ! The last number of the AVO serial number denotes its year, ie 1971. I worked in a place years ago, and I saw it lying in a skip !..... I howked it out the skip in its original leather box and went and saw the electrical engineering manager, he said that they were having a clear out and I was to take it away as they would never use it again! It takes old cycle lamp battery's, but these can be easily got from evilbay. My ignition timing is now spot on, or as spot on as you can get with a Mitutoyo digital clock gauge and a 1971 AVO meter ! I like doing this job as you use everything from feeler gauges and DTI,s to multimeters and club hammers ! There is no key to hold the flywheel / magneto rotor on, it is just a taper, so it tells you in the book to flog the nut up. There is a proper Villiers flogging spanner, but I still haven't got one yet, so its an old Whitworth ring spanner of the correct size, which is 1/2 Whitworth, in the meantime. It runs, and the last pic should be a video of its first start, which was a bit of a guddle ! I had to start it using my electric drill, as my battery drill wont turn it over, then pick up my phone to film it and then adjust the tick over while chasing it about the garage as it was too wet to take it out in the rain.....then it ran out of petrol !.... but it runs and I will get some better pics of it out in the sunshine, when the sunshine turns up. steven. ps, doesnt photobucked go a lot faster once you get a new account using your second email address !              |
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Post by paulsx on Feb 9, 2016 10:37:33 GMT 1
Deflector pistons were very popular in lawnmowers as mentioned but not seen one for years.
Plugs to hold the piston pin in are still used on some forged pistons but are now PTFE and not brass.
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Post by KevtheRev on Apr 14, 2016 9:39:00 GMT 1
Great thread , nice pics . Congrats on the book .
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paulb52
Newbe
Hi all, in need of some help i have a or what i believe to be a villiers 147cc two stroke engine
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Post by paulb52 on Dec 8, 2018 15:07:20 GMT 1
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Post by reedpete on Dec 8, 2018 18:18:35 GMT 1
Just bought the book, should be a good christmas read.
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Post by steven on Dec 9, 2018 9:38:48 GMT 1
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