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Post by JonW on Feb 10, 2015 6:27:58 GMT 1
I didnt realise the LC needed tubes... and the tyres I have say tubeless... are they actually a match made in heaven, or a stuff-up waiting to happen?
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justyr
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Post by justyr on Feb 10, 2015 8:05:20 GMT 1
No. Don't go there. It would be hideously dangerous. The LC wheel does not have a tubeless type rim lip. I bought my lc few years back, freshly mot'd, drove it a few miles, and noticed some balloon had fitted tubeless valves and omitted the tube. I about shat myself.
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Post by oldelsieboy on Feb 10, 2015 8:18:33 GMT 1
I recently stripped an LC wheel that was fitted with a tubeless valve & it has "tubeless tire applicable" stamped around the rim. OEB
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Post by steeley on Feb 10, 2015 8:24:49 GMT 1
OEB hi ,do you have a photo of the inside.
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Post by JonW on Feb 10, 2015 9:02:02 GMT 1
Cool thanks guys, my wheels defo do not have the stamping that OEBs have.
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Post by oldelsieboy on Feb 10, 2015 9:15:54 GMT 1
do you have a photo of the inside. I thought I did but cant find it at tho mo OEB
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justyr
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Post by justyr on Feb 10, 2015 9:16:58 GMT 1
Wow I've never seen an lc wheel with that stamping before. J
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Post by steven on Feb 10, 2015 9:28:09 GMT 1
hi, very interesting. I have never seen an LC wheel with that on it, thats not to say you dont get them, has anyone else ever seen that on an LC wheel ? Tire and Tyre ?..... a quick google tells me.....Tire and tyre both mean a covering for a wheel, usually made of rubber. Tire is the preferred spelling in the U.S. and Canada. Tyre is preferred in most varieties of English outside North America. Of course, all English speakers use tire in the sense to grow weary. Will you be fitting a tubeless tyre and valve and running about on that wheel then ? steven.
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Post by arrow on Feb 10, 2015 9:51:18 GMT 1
Jon, as said the lc wheels are not made to hold the air pressure from an 'open' tubeless tyre, but as I understand it you can run tubeless type tyres with an inner tube fitted. No issues then.
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webbo
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Post by webbo on Feb 10, 2015 11:42:30 GMT 1
Very interesting this! I have tubeless valves and tires fitted on mine. It had this set up when I got it and I replaced the tyres with new ones, and has been through 2 MOT's !?! Doesn't mean it's correct though. I have looked on the parts list and it shows an inner tube but tubeless motorcycle tyres were not that common in the late 70's early 80's were they? I won't be riding it until I've investigated further (not that I ride in anything other then 25c nowadays!! ) Cheers.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2015 12:02:24 GMT 1
Mine was fitted with tubeless tyres when I got it too. I asked the tyre guy when he fitted the new tyres, and he reckoned the LC rims would run a tubeless tyre no problem! They're still up after a year, though I only sit on it and occasionally push it from one place to another. I did read if you use a tube in a tubeless tyre the speed rating is reduced... Be interesting to see how the comments on this subject go though.
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Post by JonW on Feb 10, 2015 12:31:48 GMT 1
I remember from a previous life that adding a tube to a tubeless tyre creates more heat in the carcas of the tyre itself, and also adds weight of course. But I doubt I would find a tyre designed for a tube now lol. In fact thinking about it, my Motard had tubes in a tubeless tyre... works fine for up to 60 bhp and light weight then, much like an LC. LOL!
Bizarre that its the Aussies who all seem to be running tubless... probably due to our poor tyre choice here, coupled with our greater tyre cost sigh...
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Post by muttsnuts on Feb 10, 2015 13:11:30 GMT 1
The issue is not to do with speed or type of tyre, its to do with the design of the rim the tyre seats in.
A tubeless wheel has a deeper rim and a different profile so that the tyre seats tight against the wheel rim, the wall of the tyre is designed to seat and seal against the rim.
A wheel designed for a tube doesn't have the same profile, so the wall of the tubeless tyre doesn't have the same support/rigidity/surface area etc, a tubelsss tyre on a tubed rim will seal and work fine (as borne testiment above), the problem only occurs when you either hit a "pot hole" or clip the wheel/tyre against a curb or the likes, the tyre will deflect and potentially let all of the air out (very rapidly), so you could end up with a tyre deflation that is so quick its dangerous, using a tube means that is unlikely to happen.
HTH
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Post by dave1963 on Feb 10, 2015 14:40:11 GMT 1
I have been running tubeless tyres for over a year on my 350lc no problems just had 2nd mot the tester didn't mention anything and i saw him check the direction and type of tyre fitted my mate had his tyres fitted at a motorcycle shop
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Post by Delbert on Feb 10, 2015 15:31:16 GMT 1
I have been running tubeless tyres for over a year on my 350lc no problems just had 2nd mot the tester didn't mention anything and i saw him check the direction and type of tyre fitted my mate had his tyres fitted at a motorcycle shop In all fairness the tester is unlikely to know/tell if tubes are fitted or not , the tyre may say tubless but could have a tube fitted !! My 4lo had tubed tyres fitted with no tubes when I got it , hence why they kept going down , now that's dangerous !!!
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Post by steeley on Feb 10, 2015 19:33:20 GMT 1
years ago I fitted some tubeless valves to my lc wheels and fitted the tyres.i ran the bike like it for several months with no problem .I was at a friends workshop one day having a chat with his tyre man and I told him what I had done .he advised me to refit the tubes because he said the wheels were not made for that application.guess what I did.
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Post by 4L0luvvr on Feb 10, 2015 22:04:53 GMT 1
LC wheels are designed to run with tubes. If you run them without tubes, not only is this dangerous you are also invalidating your insurance!!
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Post by JonW on Feb 10, 2015 22:23:40 GMT 1
Thanks everyone for their input, I should add that right back after the first few posts I had already ordered tubes, no way am I running tubeless on rims not designated as such, those who know me will know that I wouldnt do that, its dangerous as has been said above, the rim isnt deisgned for it.
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Post by spooch63 on Feb 10, 2015 23:00:53 GMT 1
Better safe than sorry !
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Post by Eyrey1 on Feb 10, 2015 23:36:52 GMT 1
i dont get why the tyre has more chance of blowing off with no tube as with a tube ? its the same tyre seated the same way with the same pressure in it blow an inner tube up to 34psi not in a tyre and see what i mean ! if your tyre came off the rim with no tube in i dont thing you would be in a worse situation than if you had a tube in it !
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Post by ulsta on Feb 10, 2015 23:50:46 GMT 1
The rims on an LC are MT-1.85. The MT bit is for motorcycle tubeless. The rims have the right profile for tubeless tyres. However the LC rims can be porous so should be fitted with tubes.
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Post by shaunthe2nd on Feb 11, 2015 0:01:00 GMT 1
I had new tyres fitted last year and my tyreman said, against my advice that he didn't need to fit the inner tubes. One week later when they both went rapidly flat he re-fitted them at his cost, but my inconvenience of course. Luckily I had taken the loose wheels to the garage, and they only went down after I had fitted to the bike, but not ridden. Lucky escape and a lesson learnt for me.
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Post by steve h on Feb 11, 2015 0:12:28 GMT 1
I had new tyres fitted last year and my tyreman said, against my advice that he didn't need to fit the inner tubes. One week later when they both went rapidly flat he re-fitted them at his cost, but my inconvenience of course. Luckily I had taken the loose wheels to the garage, and they only went down after I had fitted to the bike, but not ridden. Lucky escape and a lesson learnt for me. I think if you had put about 90psi in them, it should of been ok, as the extra pressure would force the tyre into a better seal on the rims. Failing that, you could always fit them with a liberal dose of silicon sealant on the tyre rims. Or you could just fit some tubes and be done with it.
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Post by arrow on Feb 11, 2015 0:20:18 GMT 1
I had new tyres fitted last year and my tyreman said, against my advice that he didn't need to fit the inner tubes. One week later when they both went rapidly flat he re-fitted them at his cost, but my inconvenience of course. Luckily I had taken the loose wheels to the garage, and they only went down after I had fitted to the bike, but not ridden. Lucky escape and a lesson learnt for me. A most defining post in this thread me thinks!
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Post by JonW on Feb 11, 2015 0:23:33 GMT 1
+1 to Arrows' post.
you could always run slime or somesuch to help avoid the porosity issue, but really why do this...?
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Post by JonW on Feb 11, 2015 0:24:09 GMT 1
The rims on an LC are MT-1.85. The MT bit is for motorcycle tubeless. The rims have the right profile for tubeless tyres. However the LC rims can be porous so should be fitted with tubes. This is good news as most modern tyres ive found are designed to be tubeless.
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Post by arrow on Feb 11, 2015 0:32:30 GMT 1
The post from Shaun was most relevant in that the tyre fitter was not aware of the issue. How many more fitters out there are also not aware!
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Post by steve h on Feb 11, 2015 0:50:52 GMT 1
The post from Shaun was most relevant in that the tyre fitter was not aware of the issue. How many more fitters out there are also not aware! Quite a few I think. Some don't even bother replacing the valves when fitting new tubeless tyres.
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Post by bare on Feb 11, 2015 4:43:08 GMT 1
My 81 lc 350 came with tubeless tires fitted. From the second owner. Apparently he had used it thusly for 3 years.. Sans issues. In fact he wasn't aware they weren't supposed to be tubeless. It had some odd bolting together with a seal valve stems. Tire people said something about the rims lacking the required inner lip on the rim was the reason they were 'tubeless' rims. I fitted New tires and tubes and never gave it a second thought. A year later my new rear tire found a nail. I rode home, several miles, on an airless tire (bt45).. slowly. Preferring to buy another new tire to pushing the thing home. happily/surprisingly the tire ran fine with only small evidence ( bit sloppy when leaning) of it being airless. Subsequent examination at the tire shop showed No damages whatsoever... very surprised by that. Fitted a fresh tube and 4 yrs later it's doing fine. Clearly these BT45's are Runflats.. at least on an LC.
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justyr
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Post by justyr on Feb 11, 2015 19:13:19 GMT 1
+1 to muttsnuts post. I would never run without a tube on a tubed rim. As some have stated, the result can be a sudden and potentially fatal deflation, hence my comment about almost crapping myself when I found this on my own bike. + the invalidation of insurance. Could be an issue if the sliding bike wipes out a pedestrian.
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